Schiff Issues Subpoena for Whistleblower Complaint Being Unlawfully Withheld

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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interchange said:
I don't think Trump really understands what constitutes a quid pro quo. He thinks that, if there is no official words saying "you do this for me and in exchange I'll do this for you", then there is no quid pro quo. Realistically, just using the power of his office to ask for help for his own proposes is enough. But if the question is -- was it clearly understood that Ukraine was getting something in return for investigating Biden and supposed Ukrainian election help of Hillary (completely fictitious stories) -- then the answer is definitely yes on both sides. The only reason that Ukraine might have been willing was to get something in return. Was that something explicitly spelled out? No. But that doesn't matter at all to whether Trump gravely abused his power.

My worry is that text will be Trump's defense and Republicans will try to hide behind it, using it to completely invalidate the obvious reality. It's also plenty likely Trump withheld aide to set up a quid pro quo, and the cautionary text is an attempt to cover it up.
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I disagree, if Michael Cohen’s description of Trump’s communication style is accurate then Trump knows exactly what he is doing. As a person who has been engaged in absolutely massive amounts of litigation in his life I think he is EXTREMELY aware of the benefits of plausible deniability.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Whenever you have a lawyer or government official cut someone off in an email And say ‘let’s talk about this on the phone’ that is an extremely strong sign that they are aware the conversation is legally or politically dangerous and they want to ensure there is no record of what they are going to say next.
 
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ewdotson

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2011
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TheVrolok said:
It looks like Sondland was very clear that "The President is not interested in quid pro quos" (my summary not verbatim). Sondland was very particular to articulate that POTUS did not want quid pro quo. I think they're going to latch onto that text pretty hard. The rest of those texts seem to contradict that, but it's a possible defense.

This was the set between Taylor and Sondland on page 9.
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I agree that that the spin is going to rely *hard* on a downright facile reading of that one text taken completely out of context. In context? Fully *in* context, I agree with this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1179957249130651651
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I think we all agree that’s what Republicans will TRY, and hey, it might even work! From a logical perspective though it’s complete bullshit.

If Taylor testified to Congress, and I expect he will, he will be able to fill us in on the details of those phone calls Sondland used to avoid a paper trail. I suspect those details will not be exculpatory.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I will post a longer thread for discussion about this later, but let's rewrite history and suppose it happened this way:

Investigating Biden and supposed Ukrainian election interference was not Trump or his administration's idea. Instead, during a normal phone call between two leaders, the following exchange happened:
Zelensky: We like US help, yes, military aid very good. I have idea, strengthen US-Ukraine relationship. We hear funny thing in US trash papers, that Joe Biden help his son out in Ukraine who is corrupt, and Ukraine help Hillary in 2016. We open investigation right before election. Much news. Good for Trump. You like?
Trump: This really is a perfect conversation. I want you to work with Rudy on this. You'll love him. Don't feed him after midnight, though. Bill Barr should help to. We'll be in touch. We want the bigliest investigation ever. The perfect investigation.
*Apologies to Zelensky

And that's it. Would not anyone agree that what happened is much worse than that? And that alternate version is Trump-Russia redux, this time with proof much collusion?

It really is funny how something being even more of a conspiracy can work to obfuscate the obvious ridiculous impropriety.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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fskimospy said:
Whenever you have a lawyer or government official cut someone off in an email And say ‘let’s talk about this on the phone’ that is an extremely strong sign that they are aware the conversation is legally or politically dangerous and they want to ensure there is no record of what they are going to say next.
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Bill Taylor used the convo to memorialize the conspiracy, creating hard evidence that could be found. Sondland clearly knew what he was up to thus some of those PR like responses.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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Kushner is on it, from a cnn scroll so no link

Officials said Kushner and White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney are the officials most focused on developing an impeachment strategy.
While some said Kushner was in charge of the strategy, others said Mulvaney was at the helm.
“He's the President's senior adviser,” one administration official said of Kushner. “Of course he's important, but in no way is he running this.”
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The Viper Pit expands
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Robert Mueller just completed his report on Trump and Ukraine and determined NO COLLUSION
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,226
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Fanatical Meat said:
Kushner is on it, from a cnn scroll so no link

The Viper Pit expands
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Haha excellent. I know someone casually who has spent a lot of time with Jared Kushner and having him run Trump's counter-impeachment strategy is the best thing we could hope for. Not only is he stupid and incapable, he's completely oblivious to this fact and thinks he's actually a genius.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,407
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fskimospy said:
Haha excellent. I know someone casually who has spent a lot of time with Jared Kushner and having him run Trump's counter-impeachment strategy is the best thing we could hope for. Not only is he stupid and incapable, he's completely oblivious to this fact and thinks he's actually a genius.
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I like how it’s two dudes, what business runs with a VP of Sales and a Co-VP of Sales?
The President runs his businesses like an ice cream stand
 
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dank69

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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Saw a headline saying that the WH is going to tell Nancy there will be no cooperation with impeachment probe until they vote to authorize it.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,818
33,441
136
dank69 said:
Saw a headline saying that the WH is going to tell Nancy there will be no cooperation with impeachment probe until they vote to authorize it.
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FUCK HIM. There is no law nor in the Constitution they need to vote before impeachment inquiry.

Yes, they took a vote before the other impeachments. Since when is Trump concerned about breaking norms?
 
dank69

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,611
33,330
136
HomerJS said:
FUCK HIM. There is no law nor in the Constitution they need to vote before impeachment inquiry.

Yes, they took a vote before the other impeachments. Since when is Trump concerned about breaking norms?
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He is grasping for any excuse.
 
SMOGZINN

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
dank69 said:
Saw a headline saying that the WH is going to tell Nancy there will be no cooperation with impeachment probe until they vote to authorize it.
Click to expand...

The reason they are saying this right now is that the House is on a break, so this is a delay tactic.
They know well that the House can just do a snap vote to do investigations in support for a possible impeachment and it will pass easy.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,226
55,776
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Hey guys remember when that whistleblower was a Democrat member of the deep state with a political bias against Trump and this whole thing was a hoax/lie?
 
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