Schiff Issues Subpoena for Whistleblower Complaint Being Unlawfully Withheld

[trenchfoot]

I'd be amazed if the Trump crime organization gets away clean from everything that's been leaked or exposed or released for public consumption.

The one and only thing I see that's keeping Trump from being tossed under the GOP clunker's wheels at this point in time is Trump's base defiantly hanging on to him despite Trump himself openly admitting his criminal behavior.

I'm getting the notion that the Dems are, with intent and purpose, taking advantage of the fact that when Trump's nerves are rattled badly, he says and does things that only makes things worse for himself. The more the Dems threaten him and the all important image he tries to project (and fails miserably at it) the more he incriminates and humiliates himself.

It seems to be working spectacularly at the moment.

 

[alien42]

Yep, while trump is busy trying to come up with a nickname for Schiff, Republicans are trying to find a scapegoat that isn’t laughably obvious. In the meantime they’ll play the, “I haven’t read all the information yet so no comment”, game while trump is busy trying to normalize his corrupt behavior.

trump already has a nickname for Schiff, "liddle"

 

[dawp]

trump is now tweeting breitbart polls. He must be desperate.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1179782346209251328

that's got to be one of the least reliable poll ever published.
everything from breitbart needs to be taken with 10 tons of salt.

The silver lining to that poll is trump doesn't realize it in no way helps him, anyone familiar with breitbart knows exactly what it is. All his minions will drink it up but anyone else will just point and laugh.

 

[cytg111]

Have this been posted? Holy bombshell

"Text messages between US diplomats and Ukrainians"

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache/files/a/4/a4a91fab-99cd-4eb9-9c6c-ec1c586494b9/621801458E982E9903839ABC7404A917.chairmen-letter-on-state-departmnent-texts-10-03-19.pdf

Its out of the effen bag now.
Criminal President.

 

[dawp]

If Republicans Ever Turn On Trump, It’ll Happen All At Once

It'll feel inevitable, but only in hindsight.

fivethirtyeight.com

I agree with this, they wont turn on trump unless it appears they are going down too and then only to save their own skin.

 

[trenchfoot]

If Republicans Ever Turn On Trump, It’ll Happen All At Once

It'll feel inevitable, but only in hindsight.

fivethirtyeight.com

I agree with this, they wont turn on trump unless it appears they are going down too and then only to save their own skin.

Yep, it seems like there's a sixth sense at work when it comes to abandoning Trump's sinking ship where there's this moment in time where Trump's minions are in a holding pattern waiting for the first guy who's got the nerve to be the first guy to hit the rails and launch themselves overboard and then the rush is on to be the next guy taking the dive.

 

[woolfe9998]

At this point I think it’s safe to say that a major goal of US foreign policy over the last year or so has been to enlist foreign powers to help in Trump’s re-election in violation of federal law. Considering the push to collude for election interference with such a wide range of countries it also makes conservative protests of no collusion for 2016 all the more laughable.

So, conservatives. Impeachment now?

Yes, but there's something else in Volker's testimony and document production which is seemingly being missed. It looks like Ukraine actually agreed to do this. That's quid pro quo.

And yes, it does matter whether there was a quid pro quo. If there was an actual deal made here, it's a much worse crime with a much harsher sentence than violation of this election statute which AFAIK has never been prosecuted before. Technically this doesn't matter for impeachment because any crime will do, but since Trump won't get thrown out by the Senate, this process is really about public perception.

 

[dawp]

Yes, but there's something else in Volker's testimony and document production which is seemingly being missed. It looks like Ukraine actually agreed to do this. That's quid pro quo.

And yes, it does matter whether there was a quid pro quo. If there was an actual deal made here, it's a much worse crime with a much harsher sentence than violation of this election statute which AFAIK has never been prosecuted before. Technically this doesn't matter for impeachment because any crime will do, but since Trump won't get thrown out by the Senate, this process is really about public perception.

I tend to agree that the GOP wont vote to convict UNLESS public opinion turns on them and only to save their own asses. they can't maintain power with only their base supporting them.

 

[woolfe9998]

I tend to agree that the GOP wont vote to convict UNLESS public opinion turns on them and only to save their own asses. they can't maintain power with only their base supporting them.

Yes, but what makes that so unlikely is that it means Trump's approvals will actually have to be affected by this, which so far they have not. Impeachment support has gone up but only because the democrats who were against impeachment have gotten on board. Meaning we're going to have to start prying off Trump's supporters which so far hasn't happened. Trump's approvals have only gone down 1 point since this whole thing started. I'm frankly at a loss as to how Trump loses any support. His approvals have literally not moved in a year and half, for anything.

 

[dawp]

Yes, but what makes that so unlikely is that it means Trump's approvals will actually have to be affected by this, which so far they have not. Impeachment support has gone up but only because the democrats who were against impeachment have gotten on board. Meaning we're going to have to start prying off Trump's supporters which so far hasn't happened. Trump's approvals have only gone down 1 point since this whole thing started. I'm frankly at a loss as to how Trump loses any support. His approvals have literally not moved in a year and half, for anything.

it doesn't seem likely AT THIS TIME but as stated in the article I linked to above from fivethirtyeight, IF they turn, it will be like opening the flood gate and come as a surprise, BUT that is a big if.

 

[woolfe9998]

it doesn't seem likely AT THIS TIME but as stated in the article I linked to above from fivethirtyeight, IF they turn, it will be like opening the flood gate and come as a surprise, BUT that is a big if.

Yes, but the article is not overall that optimistic about the prospect. It makes the point that public opinion would turn against Trump if the repugs in the Senate turn against him, but they aren't going to turn against him unless public opinion drops, which is a catch-22. I tend to agree that in theory there could be an inflection point but it's hard to say what in the chain of emerging evidence would cause it if nothing so far has. I guess we'll see.

 

[dawp]

Yes, but the article is not overall that optimistic about the prospect. It makes the point that public opinion would turn against Trump if the repugs in the Senate turn against him, but they aren't going to turn against him unless public opinion drops, which is a catch-22. I tend to agree that in theory there could be an inflection point but it's hard to say which in the chain of emerging evidence would cause it if nothing so far has.

yup, and i do think it's unlikely they will change unless there is a seismic shift which shows no sign of happening.

 

[rommelrommel]

Looks like Bill Taylor will be a great interview.

 

[cytg111]

From the report :


Meta: Connecting Rudy Giuliani with Ukraine President Zelensky’s Advisor: On July 19, Ambassador Volker texted President Trump’s agent, Rudy Giuliani, to thank him for breakfast and to introduce him to Andrey Yermak, a top advisor to President Zelensky:

(7/19/19, 4:48 PM] Kurt Volker: Mr Mayor — really enjoyed breakfast this morning. As discussed, connecting you here with Andrey Yermak, who is very close to President Zelensky. I suggest we schedule a call together on Monday — maybe 10am or 11am Washington time? Kurt

e Sondland Briefs Zelensky Ahead of Call with President Trump: On July 19, 2019, Ambassador Volker, Ambassador Sondland, and Mr. Taylor had the following exchange about the specific goal for the upcoming telephone call between President Trump and the Ukrainian President:

[7/19/19, 4:49:42 PM] Kurt Volker: Can we three do a call tomorrow—say noon WASHINGTON?

(7/19/19, 6:50:29 PM] Gordon Sondland: Looks like Potus call tomorrow. I spike [sic] directly to Zelensky and gave him a full briefing. He’s got it.

[ 7/19/19, 6:52:57 PM] Gordon Sondland: Sure!

(7/19/19, 7:01:22 PM] Kurt Volker: Good. Had breakfast with Rudy this morning—teeing up call w Yermak Monday. Must have helped. Most impt is for Zelensky to say that he will help investigation—and address any specific personnel issues—if there are any

Meta: Concerns about Ukraine Becoming an “Instrument” in U.S. Politics: On July 21,
2019, Ambassador Taylor flagged President Zelensky’s desire for Ukraine not to be used
by the Trump Administration for its own domestic political purposes:

[7/21/19, 1:45:54 AM] Bill Taylor: Gordon, one thing Kurt and I talked about yesterday was Sasha Danyliuk’s point that President Zelenskyy 1s sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic, reelection politics.

[7/22/19 4:27:55 PM] Kurt Volker: Orchestrated a great phone call w Rudy and Yermak. They are going to get together when Rudy goes to Madrid in a couple ofweeks.

[7/22/19 4:28:08 PM] Kurt Volker: In the meantime Rudy is now advocating for phone call.

[7/22/19 4:28:26 PM] Kurt Volker: I have call into Fiona’s eplacement and will call Bolton if needed.

[7/22/19 4:28:48 PM Kurt Volker: But I can tell Bolton and you an tell Mick that Rudy agrees on a call if that helps.

[7/22/19 4:30:10 PM] Gordon Sondland: I talked to Tim Morrison Fiona’s replacement. He 1s pushing but feel free as well.

 

[cytg111]

META: Volker Advises Yermak Ahead of Trump-Zelensky Call: On the morning of July 25, 2019—ahead of the planned call between resident Trump and President Zelensky— Ambassador Volker advised Andrey Yermak:

[7/25/19, 8:36:45 AM] Kurt Volker: Good lunch - thanks. Heard from White House—assuming President Z convinces trump he will nvestigate / “get to the bottom of what happened” in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Good luck! See you tomorrow- kurt

[7/25/19, 10:15:06 AM] Andrey Yermak: Phone call went well. President Trump proposed to choose any convenient dates. President Zelenskiy chose 20,21,22 September for the White House Visit. Thank you again for your help! Please remind Mr. Mayor to share the Madrid’s dates

Meta : State Department Officials Discuss a White House Visit and Ukraine Statement: On August 9, 2019, Ambassador Volker had the following exchange with Ambassador Sondland about arranging a White House meeting after the Ukrainian President makes a public statement:

[8/9/19, 5: 35:53 PM] Gordon Sondland: Morrison ready to get dates as soon as Yermak confirms.
[8/9/19, 5: 46:21 PM] Kurt Volker: Excellent!! How did you sway him?

Read the whole thing
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_c...etter-on-state-departmnent-texts-10-03-19.pdf

 

[dawp]

this is getting good

going to be hard for repubs to spin this, tho they will try.

 

[fskimospy]

this is getting good

going to be hard for repubs to spin this, tho they will try.

The dance goes:

1) it didn’t happen.
2) it happened but there was no quid pro quo.
3) there was quid pro quo but it was actually good.

We are about to hit #3.

 

[interchange]

It's pretty clear that Ukraine saw this as domestic US election politics and not important to them. There were a whole host of efforts to sway Zelenski to agree just to build US-Ukraine relations.

In other words, helping Trump win the election was official US foreign policy, and a foreign power was clearly not wanting to do so but swayed only to receive US support in return.

Push the damn eject button already.

 

[TheVrolok]

The dance goes:

1) it didn’t happen.
2) it happened but there was no quid pro quo.
3) there was quid pro quo but it was actually good.

We are about to hit #3.

It looks like Sondland was very clear that "The President is not interested in quid pro quos" (my summary not verbatim). Sondland was very particular to articulate that POTUS did not want quid pro quo. I think they're going to latch onto that text pretty hard. The rest of those texts seem to contradict that, but it's a possible defense.

This was the set between Taylor and Sondland on page 9.

 

[TheVrolok]

It's pretty clear that Ukraine saw this as domestic US election politics and not important to them. There were a whole host of efforts to sway Zelenski to agree just to build US-Ukraine relations.

In other words, helping Trump win the election was official US foreign policy, and a foreign power was clearly not wanting to do so but swayed only to receive US support in return.

Push the damn eject button already.

Totally agreed, the texts are incredibly damning my above post a possible exception.

 

[dawp]

The dance goes:

1) it didn’t happen.
2) it happened but there was no quid pro quo.
3) there was quid pro quo but it was actually good.

We are about to hit #3.

the 'perfect' phone call.

 

[interchange]

It looks like Sondland was very clear that "The President is not interested in quid pro quos" (my summary not verbatim). Sondland was very particular to articulate that POTUS did not want quid pro quo. I think they're going to latch onto that text pretty hard. The rest of those texts seem to contradict that, but it's a possible defense.

This was the set between Taylor and Sondland on page 9.

I don't think Trump really understands what constitutes a quid pro quo. He thinks that, if there is no official words saying "you do this for me and in exchange I'll do this for you", then there is no quid pro quo. Realistically, just using the power of his office to ask for help for his own proposes is enough. But if the question is -- was it clearly understood that Ukraine was getting something in return for investigating Biden and supposed Ukrainian election help of Hillary (completely fictitious stories) -- then the answer is definitely yes on both sides. The only reason that Ukraine might have been willing was to get something in return. Was that something explicitly spelled out? No. But that doesn't matter at all to whether Trump gravely abused his power.

My worry is that text will be Trump's defense and Republicans will try to hide behind it, using it to completely invalidate the obvious reality. It's also plenty likely Trump withheld aide to set up a quid pro quo, and the cautionary text is an attempt to cover it up.

 

[TheVrolok]

I don't think Trump really understands what constitutes a quid pro quo. He thinks that, if there is no official words saying "you do this for me and in exchange I'll do this for you", then there is no quid pro quo. Realistically, just using the power of his office to ask for help for his own proposes is enough. But if the question is -- was it clearly understood that Ukraine was getting something in return for investigating Biden and supposed Ukrainian election help of Hillary (completely fictitious stories) -- then the answer is definitely yes on both sides. The only reason that Ukraine might have been willing was to get something in return. Was that something explicitly spelled out? No. But that doesn't matter at all to whether Trump gravely abused his power.

My worry is that text will be Trump's defense and Republicans will try to hide behind it, using it to completely invalidate the obvious reality.

100% agreed. Your last sentence is my exact shared fear. For many people who don't desire to think beneath an incredibly superficial level, that quotation may be enough.

 

[cytg111]

It's pretty clear that Ukraine saw this as domestic US election politics and not important to them. There were a whole host of efforts to sway Zelenski to agree just to build US-Ukraine relations.

In other words, helping Trump win the election was official US foreign policy, and a foreign power was clearly not wanting to do so but swayed only to receive US support in return.

Push the damn eject button already.

Ukraine is at war with Russia. Ukraine is being invaded by Russia. I think that is priority number 1. The fact that Zelensky has the clarity to proclaim that he doesnt want Ukraine being a piece thrown about in US domestic politics says it all.
You do have to wonder ONE thing though, longer term.
Looking to the east he has Putins authoritarian rule ... Looking to the west he is met with this corrupt shit. Why the hell should he choose to ally with one over the other ? Its like choosing between shit and crap.

 

[fskimospy]

It looks like Sondland was very clear that "The President is not interested in quid pro quos" (my summary not verbatim). Sondland was very particular to articulate that POTUS did not want quid pro quo. I think they're going to latch onto that text pretty hard. The rest of those texts seem to contradict that, but it's a possible defense.

This was the set between Taylor and Sondland on page 9.

Generally speaking when someone says on a written record ‘that crime totally didn’t happen now let’s immediately stop talking about this in writing’ it is not exactly exculpatory, haha.

That’s about as clear of an ‘oh shit this is going to end up in a trial or before Congress’ moment as you’re likely to see.