Schiff Issues Subpoena for Whistleblower Complaint Being Unlawfully Withheld

[HomerJS]

Nor did it state anything giving exception to executive privilege.

Essentially what that guy was arguing was that if a member of the IC and the president were collaborating in criminal activity that was reported through another whistleblower, he wouldn't have to report it because of executive privilege and he would first check with the president if it was ok to do so.

I actually agree with the Republicans on the committee about one thing—the whistleblower law does not explicitly deal with matters of executive privilege. Maguire acted within the confines of the law. You could say it was poor judgement to reach out to White House lawyers and OLC if they were involved in the complaint, but there was no other authority to provide DNI with counsel.

I may eat these words later, but at this point in time I think Maguire would make a decent permanent DNI.

Why is that an issue? Complaint is turned over to a Congressional committee with security clearance. You can't hide behind EP to cover up maleficence. The IG is supposed to make the decision whether or not to turn it over to congress.

 

[cytg111]

Have you guys read the actual whistleblower complaint?

Its here

Read: Whistleblower complaint regarding President Trump and Ukraine

The declassified whistleblower complaint on President Donald Trump and Ukraine has been released.

edition.cnn.com

Holy * batman.
This is it. Fucker is going down.

 

[fskimospy]

Anyone saying executive privilege is a thing here is asserting a constitutional right for the president to conceal corrupt or illegal dealings he has with foreign leaders.

Does anyone want to make that argument?

 

[ivwshane]

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw from comey; an otherwise patriotic and trustworthy person, making decisions that would have profound consequences that were beyond their foresight.

How do we fix a system where “comeys” can’t unwittingly damage this country?

It almost seems as if their duty to follow the rules is contrary to doing the right thing.

 

[Perknose]

Anyone saying executive privilege is a thing here is asserting a constitutional right for the president to conceal corrupt or illegal dealings he has with foreign leaders.

Does anyone want to make that argument?

Anyone? [Scans the room, sees a man with bad teeth, worse hair and a crazed look on his goblin-like face . . .] The chair recognizes Mayor Giuliani.

 

[ivwshane]

Anyone saying executive privilege is a thing here is asserting a constitutional right for the president to conceal corrupt or illegal dealings he has with foreign leaders.

Does anyone want to make that argument?

That seems like exactly the argument McGuire was making while trying not to explicitly state it.

 

[hal2kilo]

Why is that an issue? Complaint is turned over to a Congressional committee with security clearance. You can't hide behind EP to cover up maleficence. The IG is supposed to make the decision whether or not to turn it over to congress.

Which the IG did. It was the DNI that futz around. Asking the potential criminals whether he could release the report. Personally, this DNI is working for a lawless administration and realized he was working in the middle of a crazy train. I really don't hold him personally responsible for the delay. But, these allegations have to be investigated.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That seems like exactly the argument McGuire was making while trying not to explicitly state it.

He sure as shit didn't refute it.

 

[ivwshane]

It’s pretty clear that Barr needs to be impeached.

 

[Jhhnn]

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw from comey; an otherwise patriotic and trustworthy person, making decisions that would have profound consequences that were beyond their foresight.

How do we fix a system where “comeys” can’t unwittingly damage this country?

It almost seems as if their duty to follow the rules is contrary to doing the right thing.

It's ridiculous to bring Comey into this.

 

[Jhhnn]

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw from comey; an otherwise patriotic and trustworthy person, making decisions that would have profound consequences that were beyond their foresight.

How do we fix a system where “comeys” can’t unwittingly damage this country?

It almost seems as if their duty to follow the rules is contrary to doing the right thing.

It's ridiculous to bring Comey into this.

 

[ivwshane]

It's ridiculous to bring Comey into this.

If the point was lost on you just say so.

You may also want to have your computer looked at as you appear to be the only one who experiences “forum weirdness” a lot.

 

[zinfamous]

It's ridiculous to bring Comey into this.

He's not bringing Comey into this. He's bringing the system into this where a lot of people, like Comey and probably this Maguire fellow, find themselves trapped doing the right thing through the law and proper channels, under the realization that the "absolute right thing" is going to be corrupted and damaged by going through the proper channels, but it is still "the right thing--the system must be honored."

Our system works best when you don't put a band of self-serving, craven, inhuman swamp trash at every level of check & balance that serve no other purpose than to to obfuscate and spread chaos in order to cover up what the other swamp trash is doing. It's a relatively good system, so long as the system that empowers these people does so, consistently, with the understanding that these are actually honorable, duty-bound people. None of this applies to team TrumpTrash.

The corruption and self-dealing essentially hit ludicrous speed after Barr oozed his way in.

 

[HomerJS]

I hope Barr, Giuliani and Trump share adjoining cells. Everyone, read the complaint.

 

[fskimospy]

He's not bringing Comey into this. He's bringing the system into this where a lot of people, like Comey and probably this Maguire fellow, find themselves trapped between the right thing through the law and proper channels, but also under the realization that the "absolute right thing" is going to be corrupted and damaged by going through the proper channels.

Our system works best when you don't put a band of self-serving, craven, inhuman swamp trash at every level of check & balance that serve no other purpose than to to obfuscate and spread chaos in order to cover up what the other swamp trash is doing. It's a relatively good system, so long as the system that empowers these people does so, consistently, with the understanding that these are actually honorable, duty-bound people. None of this applies to team TrumpTrash.

The corruption and self-dealing essentially hit ludicrous speed after Barr oozed his way in.

I agree, although I don't see what can be done. Our system relies on the people in it acting in at least a modicum of good faith. If they aren't willing to do that then there's nothing the system can do. It's like how if you look at the North Korean or Soviet constitutions in many ways they guarantee more freedoms than ours.

There's no solution to that though because the only response is for the left to act the same as the right does, which ends you up in the same place.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Next in line to Pelosi is Steny Hoyer. Doubt Pelosi would be OK with him taking the top seat since they were previously bitter rivals and she historically carries grudges.

Interesting point, seems like Pelosi is winding up her career. She actually could be a good place keeper President until 2020 election then retire.
Again purely hypothetical answer.

 

[HomerJS]

I hope Barr, Giuliani and Trump share adjoining cells. Everyone, read the complaint.

Maybe Pompeo as well

 

[ewdotson]

In hypothetical land where Trump successfully drags Pence under with him, I think Nancy needs to do the right thing and step down--essentially "recuse herself" from the position, as she holds power over the action that would, by law, give her the presidency.

All kidding aside, I still maintain that should things get to the point where the removal of both Trump and Pence becomes a real possibility, Pelosi will cut a deal with the Senate Republicans where she'll agree to support a sane Republican candidate as their replacement in exchange for their support in the trial.

Not only would that make it much easier to reach the necessary threshold of Republican support in the Senate, but, well ... as much fun as it is to be all "yay Team Blue, stick it to the Other Guys" (and I *do* get the appeal), removing both Trump and Pence would put us in a *very* dangerous place as a country. That not to say that we should ignore their corruption, just that Congress will need to be very careful about doing it without breaking the country worse than it's already been broken.

 

[ivwshane]

I agree, although I don't see what can be done. Our system relies on the people in it acting in at least a modicum of good faith. If they aren't willing to do that then there's nothing the system can do. It's like how if you look at the North Korean or Soviet constitutions in many ways they guarantee more freedoms than ours.

There's no solution to that though because the only response is for the left to act the same as the right does, which ends you up in the same place.

I think a possible solution, in this particular case, is to amend the law and state that if the whistleblower’s allegations involve people or entities that are part of the chain the complaint goes through they are allowed to take it to Congress directly and if the committee in congress is involved then they have the right to go directly to the press.

 

[ewdotson]

I think a possible solution, in this particular case, is to amend the law and state that if the whistleblower’s allegations involve people or entities that are part of the chain the complaint goes through they are allowed to take it to Congress directly and if the committee in congress is involved then they have the right to go directly to the press.

If this all goes nuclear, I kind of hope it leads to there being an appetite for a Constitutional amendment to try to prevent this sort of thing happening again in the future. It would be the most significant amendment in a very, very long time, but I think the last few years have shown that there would a lot of virtue to splitting the DoJ off into a fully independent entity with its own well-defined Constitutional duties, powers and responsibilities.

 

[HomerJS]

Trump threatening anyone providing whistleblower information. Calling them spies.

President Trump expressed disgust Thursday morning with the explosive whistleblower complaint, slamming the intelligence officer and the White House aides who helped him or her as “almost a spy” and suggested it was treason.

Speaking at a private breakfast in New York, Trump described reporters as “scum” and raged at the Democrats’ new impeachment proceedings

“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”

How is not a clear case example of fascist rule? BTW - We were told by someone here we didn't know the definition of treason

Listen: Audio of Trump discussing whistleblower at private event: 'That's close to a spy'

President Trump slammed the whistleblower who first warned that the president was trying to strong-arm a foreign leader for personal gain as "a spy," and suggested he or she had committed treason.

www.latimes.com

 

[dainthomas]

Which the IG did. It was the DNI that futz around. Asking the potential criminals whether he could release the report. Personally, this DNI is working for a lawless administration and realized he was working in the middle of a crazy train. I really don't hold him personally responsible for the delay. But, these allegations have to be investigated.

Trump threatening anyone providing whistleblower information. Calling them spies.


How is not a clear case example of fascist rule? BTW - We were told by someone here we didn't know the definition of treason

Listen: Audio of Trump discussing whistleblower at private event: 'That's close to a spy'

President Trump slammed the whistleblower who first warned that the president was trying to strong-arm a foreign leader for personal gain as "a spy," and suggested he or she had committed treason.

www.latimes.com

Totally cool and legal to talk about executing people for exposing your crimes.

 

[ivwshane]

If this all goes nuclear, I kind of hope it leads to there being an appetite for a Constitutional amendment to try to prevent this sort of thing happening again in the future. It would be the most significant amendment in a very, very long time, but I think the last few years have shown that there would a lot of virtue to splitting the DoJ off into a fully independent entity with its own well-defined Constitutional duties, powers and responsibilities.

Well the intelligence community is supposed to independent. That is, there is supposed to oversight of the IC by congress and the IC is supposed to report information to the president.
Personally I think the oversight portion is highly lacking.

 

[zinfamous]

There it is: Trump suggesting that everyone involved in the details of the whistleblower account be executed for treason.

lol. The GOP supports this.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Trump threatening anyone providing whistleblower information. Calling them spies.


How is not a clear case example of fascist rule? BTW - We were told by someone here we didn't know the definition of treason

Listen: Audio of Trump discussing whistleblower at private event: 'That's close to a spy'

President Trump slammed the whistleblower who first warned that the president was trying to strong-arm a foreign leader for personal gain as "a spy," and suggested he or she had committed treason.

www.latimes.com

He should be careful what he asks for. We used to do different things to despots in the past too.

 

[HomerJS]

He should be careful what he asks for. We used to do different things to despots in the past too.

cough...cough...Mussolini...cough

I'd show up for that party