Schiff Issues Subpoena for Whistleblower Complaint Being Unlawfully Withheld

[pcgeek11]

Well, besides the overuse of commas, the Amendment starting out with "A well regulated militia" kinda provides some context.

I mean, if anyone actually cares about originalism and all that.

If it had modern formatting, it'd probably be a lot closer to

A well-regulated militia - being necessary to the security of a free state - the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Also, note well, the framers of the constitution were into regulations. Gross, right?!

I disagree with your interpretation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well, besides the overuse of commas, the Amendment starting out with "A well regulated militia" kinda provides some context.

I mean, if anyone actually cares about originalism and all that.

If it had modern formatting, it'd probably be a lot closer to

A well-regulated militia - being necessary to the security of a free state - the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Also, note well, the framers of the constitution were into regulations. Gross, right?!

Wouldn't that mean that the people may only bear arms if they are in a well regulated condition while it's chaos out in our schools and in out streets. Sure seems we need more regulations for the security of the state.

 

[TheVrolok]

I didn't say that it did exempt anyone. I only stated that MANY 2A Supporters Have already fought at the behest of our government and country. You shouldn't call them chicken because they support the 2A.


It also doesn't say that you must join a well regulated militia to bear arms either.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Shall not be infringed is pretty definitive.

Heller was in 2008. :eyeroll:

 

[pcgeek11]

many is 3. Or 3,000,000. Then again, many people are saying...



shall not be infringed and "shall not be regulated" are two very, very different things. 2A does not mean firearms cannot be (further) regulated.

3 or 3,000,000 ?

OK how many people that support the 2A do you think served in the military?


You are interjecting a new topic in to the conversation. Nowhere did I say that they couldn't or shouldn't be regulated.

 

[cytg111]

Stop feeding the troll ffs! Its old. Its tired. Its one sandwich short of a full deck. Leave it be and let it fade quietly into that good night.

 

[trenchfoot]

The problem I see with comparing the Watergate era with the Trump era is that Trump's base isn't anything like Nixon's base of support at that time in our nation's history. Trump's base is more extreme, more radicalized, more reactionary, more hard core cultish.

There was a possibility for Nixon's base to see the bigger picture of being an American before being a die hard supporter of him. That's clearly not the case when it comes to describing the relationship Trump has with his base. Quite the opposite as we have all been witness to.

There may be some value in using the Watergate model to go after Trump. However there needs to be a whole lot more concern over how his base will react to his being impeached. I'm sure it won't be anything like what the nation had to go through with Nixon.

 

[nickqt]

Wouldn't that mean that the people may only bear arms if they are in a well regulated condition while it's chaos out in our schools and in out streets. Sure seems we need more regulations for the security of the state.

I think that the wording isn't as arbitrary as orientalists try to paint it as.

The Amendment literally starts off stating regulated militia, which is essentially the opposite of individual citizens carrying military-grade weaponry.

In fact, most people who want to keep the Amendment the way it is (including me) will agree that individual citizens shouldn't have tanks, SAMs, grenades, m249s, etc.

All that said, and the following already stated by myself, mass killings using guns are a symptom of a very sick society. The AR-15 platform is only as powerful as the munition you put through it. An AR-15 that fires a .22 LR is not an AR-15 that fires a 5.56 JHP. But a very sick person who feels as if he (and it's going to be a he 99.9% of the time) has no power is going to go out and get a cheap AR-15 that fires 5.56 in order to feel powerful, because our society is extremely dysfunctional.

Fixing the situation of first-world citizens trying to live in third-world economic situations would probably immediately curtail most of the symptoms/mass shootings that we suffer because of our broken and degrading society.

It's similar to the dysfunctional drug war, and addiction/organized crime. One perpetuates the other. Without drugs being nothing but an excuse for the power system to criminalize certain people, organized crime that centers around the black-market markup wouldn't exist.

-Disease: drug prohibition.

-Symptoms: organized crime, addiction, overdose, individual crime, privatized prisons and literal slave labor, corporate drug dealers with licenses by the state, corrupted doctors/healthcare system, drug-dealers selling antidotes to their drugs, increased healthcare costs for everyone else, etc., etc.

Of course, fixing either of those two problems requires more than a bumper sticker, and politicians who make themselves rich by continuing the status quo will fight any changes to the status quo, by whatever means necessary - with the help of the oligarchs who prefer the status quo.

To an oligarch or their politicians and police forces, losing a negligible amount of wealth and power is equivocal to losing all of their wealth and power...because people who are afraid of losing a negligible amount of wealth and power are the sickest people in our society, and are the ones writing the laws to keep the rest of us sick(er).

Luckily for the oligarchs, they are able to fund propaganda outlets d/b/a media sources, to have one half of the population fight the other half of the population trying to cure the disease, simply by throwing them random crumbs and empty platitudes that they themselves mock and laugh about in private. And as always, anything that the oligarchs are able to use for their own benefit, is a clear and present danger to society and everyone else who lives in it.

 

[Bitek]

I thought this was a Trump is committing treason again thread, not YA2AT.
Anyway...

Pelosi has let this gone on long enough. Too long really.

We know Trump is not a patriot, but standing idly by while he shits on the rule of law and the Constitution because you are too concerned about a future election is also unpatriotic.

Ds need to get their heads out of their asses and actually starting fighting to save the country.

 

[Jhhnn]

I thought was a Trump is committing treason again thread, not YA2AT.
Anyway...

Pelosi has let this gone on long enough. Too long really.

We know Trump is not a patriot, but standing idly by while he shits in the rule of law and the Constitution because you are too concerned about a future election is also unpatriotic.

Ds need to get their heads out of their asses and actually starting fighting to save the country.

Why would you believe that's not happening? There's nothing "Both sides" about this at all. Stonewalling works, at least for now. It's so pervasive that it becomes a charge of impeachment on its own.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I thought was a Trump is committing treason again thread, not YA2AT.
Anyway...

Pelosi has let this gone on long enough. Too long really.

We know Trump is not a patriot, but standing idly by while he shits in the rule of law and the Constitution because you are too concerned about a future election is also unpatriotic.

Ds need to get their heads out of their asses and actually starting fighting to save the country.

Even Weld is going postal on treason. To be clear NO ONE has committed treason proper as much as Trump may deserve a life in isolation behind bars. We're collectively too lose in our language. Still, an effective life sentence would be appropriate if half what we believe is true.

 

[K1052]

Democratic House caucus is meeting tomorrow. Sounding like this could be a real thing if the WH continues to bottle up the whistleblower complaint. More moderates moving to favor impeachment if the info is not turned over, reportedly leadership seeing fewer downsides to tossing this into the Senate's lap.

 

[Viper1j]

News Item | Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence

intelligence.house.gov

So, this is kind of a big deal. Fun fact: the whistleblower complain was apparently filed August 12th. Coats resigned on the 15th. Complete coincidence, I'm sure.

BFD. If they won't obey the LAW, what the hell is a subpoena supposed to do?

 

[Jhhnn]

BFD. If they won't obey the LAW, what the hell is a subpoena supposed to do?

It's pro forma, a necessary thing to move forward.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I didn't say that it did exempt anyone. I only stated that MANY 2A Supporters Have already fought at the behest of our government and country. You shouldn't call them chicken because they support the 2A.


It also doesn't say that you must join a well regulated militia to bear arms either.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Shall not be infringed is pretty definitive.

Your just babbling......
You tried to make the point that a lot of gun owners have served in the military which is as close as you will get to a well regulated militia!
My point was it does not matter if you served in the military or not!! If you are a gun owner and called upon the be part of the militia you are SOL!! That comes with owning a gun!
You can`t have one , without the other! Now a lot of you gun nut cowards will try to hide or run, but that is to be expected!!

 

[Jhhnn]

Your just babbling......
You tried to make the point that a lot of gun owners have served in the military which is as close as you will get to a well regulated militia!
My point was it does not matter if you served in the military or not!! If you are a gun owner and called upon the be part of the militia you are SOL!! That comes with owning a gun!
You can`t have one , without the other! Now a lot of you gun nut cowards will try to hide or run, but that is to be expected!!

Why are you going on about guns in this thread? It's totally off topic & the gun freaks love it because it's in their comfort zone of discussion. They have the arguments down pat. The subject at hand is a lot less comfortable for them.

 

[Bitek]

Why would you believe that's not happening? There's nothing "Both sides" about this at all. Stonewalling works, at least for now. It's so pervasive that it becomes a charge of impeachment on its own.

"both sides"? o_0 WTF

I'd rather not live in some party loyalty fantasy land where this is actually going somewhere and D strategy is working.
It's not. It's a fucking shitshow.

Where's the un-redacted Mueller report? Oh, still sitting under Barr's fat ass while Ds plead in court so it can maybe get released 3 yrs from now. Why bother, no one cares anymore. Out played. thanks for nothing.

They got humiliated by Lewendowski. Only was the professional lawyer able to salvage anything from that testimony.

And where is everyone else? McGahn? Hope Hicks? Anyone?
Jesus, even Mueller gave them the stuff arm.

It's pathetic. They need to grow some nuts and get pissed.

 

[Jhhnn]

"both sides"? o_0 WTF

I'd rather not live in some party loyalty fantasy land where this is actually going somewhere and D strategy is working.
It's not. It's a fucking shitshow.

Where's the un-redacted Mueller report? Oh, still sitting under Barr's fat ass while Ds plead in court so it can maybe get released 3 yrs from now. Why bother, no one cares anymore. Out played. thanks for nothing.

They got humiliated by Lewendowski. Only was the professional lawyer able to salvage anything from that testimony.

And where is everyone else? McGahn? Hope Hicks? Anyone?
Jesus, even Mueller gave them the stuff arm.

It's pathetic. They need to grow some nuts and get pissed.

Dems are plenty pissed. If the acting DNI doesn't give it up rather shortly they'll likely move for impeachment.

 

[nickqt]

"both sides"? o_0 WTF

I'd rather not live in some party loyalty fantasy land where this is actually going somewhere and D strategy is working.
It's not. It's a fucking shitshow.

Where's the un-redacted Mueller report? Oh, still sitting under Barr's fat ass while Ds plead in court so it can maybe get released 3 yrs from now. Why bother, no one cares anymore. Out played. thanks for nothing.

They got humiliated by Lewendowski. Only was the professional lawyer able to salvage anything from that testimony.

And where is everyone else? McGahn? Hope Hicks? Anyone?
Jesus, even Mueller gave them the stuff arm.

It's pathetic. They need to grow some nuts and get pissed.

Let's be clear.

The House has...the Sargent at Arms. Some of his duties are protecting Capitol parking lots.

The White House has...the Secret Service, CIA, and US military.

What makes you think Strongman Trump is going to abide by the Sargent at Arms attempting to arrest any of his current co-conspirators?

Are you sufficiently prepared to actually fight for your country? Right now?

It's not a matter of whether Strongman Trump is dangerous, or should be Impeached. It's whether it's the right move right now.

It's arguable about whether it should be tomorrow, or after these accusations have more substance. It's also arguable about whether Strongman Trump being effectively proven "innocent" (to a whole lot of Americans) by the Senate would end up killing the country by making a solid Strongman Trump "win" in November of 2020 more likely.

If, as I suspect, Republicans in the US Senate are loyal to Strongman Trump rather than the Constitution, country, or citizenry, a failed Impeachment may be better for Strongman Trump than a "win" in 2020. Hell, it could negate the need for 2020, if you ask Strongman Trump. And you won't have to, because he'll tell you and his millions of emphatic, armed supporters as much on Twitter, over and over.

Then what? More Impeachment?

Do you think everything I've just stated is unlikely, given everything we've seen so far? I'm interested in how you think an Impeachment tomorrow works out.

 

[HomerJS]

Since righties have constantly argued 2A is to save our country from tyranny might be time to take up arms against our own government as long as Trump is in office.

Just a thought

 

[K1052]

WaPo says Trump ordered Mulvaney to withhold $400m in aid to Ukraine a week before the call. The WH also apparently lied to lawmakers about why there was a hold. Apparently the money only shook loose after Durbin threatened to stop up billions in pentagon funding.

I think shit is about to get real.

 

[HomerJS]

Maybe time for the country to have a Mussolini party. Who wants an invite??

 

[emperus]

WaPo says Trump ordered Mulvaney to withhold $400m in aid to Ukraine a week before the call. The WH also apparently lied to lawmakers about why there was a hold. Apparently the money only shook loose after Durbin threatened to stop up billions in pentagon funding.

I think shit is about to get real.

Hmm.. Trump and Mulvaney.. what recent scandal were this pair headliners? Quick Hint.. Alabama.

 

[pcgeek11]

Since righties have constantly argued 2A is to save our country from tyranny might be time to take up arms against our own government as long as Trump is in office.

Just a thought

You don't have the sack for it.

 

[ivwshane]

Since righties have constantly argued 2A is to save our country from tyranny might be time to take up arms against our own government as long as Trump is in office.

Just a thought

They won't, even if trump were to do something ridiculous like call the 2020 elections invalid due fraud or foreign meddling and not step down.

Which really goes to show that the whole, "keep tyranny at bay" thing is complete bull shit. One mans tyrannical government is a another mans cult.

 

[glenn1]

Since righties have constantly argued 2A is to save our country from tyranny might be time to take up arms against our own government as long as Trump is in office.

Just a thought

To “take up arms” you need to both own arms and not be afraid of them. Which the average Democratic voter is not in any way, shape, or form. You guys would just hurt yourselves and damage the equipment worse than millennials trying to drive a stick shift car.