Schiff Issues Subpoena for Whistleblower Complaint Being Unlawfully Withheld

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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
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Hayabusa Rider

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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glenn1 said:
In this thread I am again reminded about how few people on the left actually know the definition of the word "treason" or how it's applied in actual use.
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Honestly, it annoys me too. I would say that Trump engages in treasonous behavior in the vernacular, however for purposes of legal consequences sedition, perhaps charges of espionage and other illegal activities, but in no legal sense has anyone committed treason proper. But to disagree somewhat I expect the "Lockeruppers" aren't any better than anyone else or Trump for that matter.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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glenn1 said:
Just to remind you, it was a progressive who brought up the subject of "2A remedies" that I was responding to. You've somehow managed to turn that into a screed about right-wing folks instead when the post was about progressives taking up arms.
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The fuck are you talking about? That's a direct Trumpism: "2nd amendment remedies." IF anyone but Trump ever says that, it's obviously in reference to Trump, and your dumbass is being satirized for supporting that kind of direct violence.

It's the entire point.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
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glenn1 said:
In this thread I am again reminded about how few people on the left actually know the definition of the word "treason" or how it's applied in actual use.
Click to expand...

Nah, the use is fine. It doesn't fit the legal term but it certainly fits how the term is used in casual conversation.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,825
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glenn1 said:
In this thread I am again reminded about how few people on the left actually know the definition of the word "treason" or how it's applied in actual use.
Click to expand...
I know the definition. Since Russia committed an act of war against the United States Trump taking the side of Putin over our country can be argued as treasonous.
 
glenn1

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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HomerJS said:
I know the definition. Since Russia committed an act of war against the United States Trump taking the side of Putin over our country can be argued as treasonous.
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You realize that Russia and Ukraine (the subject of this thread) are two separate countries, right?

And even if you accept every single accusation around Russian election meddling and Trump complicity in said meddling, that still doesn't represent treason. Election fraud has a definition and treason has a definition, the two share basically zero overlap.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
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glenn1 said:
You realize that Russia and Ukraine (the subject of this thread) are two separate countries, right?

And even if you accept every single accusation around Russian election meddling and Trump complicity in said meddling, that still doesn't represent treason. Election fraud has a definition and treason has a definition, the two share basically zero overlap.
Click to expand...

He's referring to the other treasonous act--the one involving Putin and openly supporting his meddling in our elections--not this current treasonous act wrg to Ukraine and the next elections.

Oh and, of course conveniently enough, this also benefits Putin. Anything to sew controversy in Ukraine, confuse their #1 ally (the US) against them, is really only ever to Putin's benefit.

But then you probably already know all that. You just don't care.
 
glenn1

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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zinfamous said:
He's referring to the other treasonous act--the one involving Putin and openly supporting his meddling in our elections--not this current treasonous act wrg to Ukraine and the next elections.

Oh and, of course conveniently enough, this also benefits Putin. Anything to sew controversy in Ukraine, confuse their #1 ally (the US) against them, is really only ever to Putin's benefit.

But then you probably already know all that. You just don't care.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you just proved (again) you don't know the definition of "treason" and why it's different and distinct from election fraud. Not surprising.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,778
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glenn1 said:
Yeah, you just proved (again) you don't know the definition of "treason" and why it's different and distinct from election fraud. Not surprising.
Click to expand...

If someone breaks into your friends' house late at night and steals their TV and they say to you 'I've been robbed!' do you correct them and say 'no, you've been burglarized'?
 
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Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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nickqt said:
Let's be clear.

The House has...the Sargent at Arms. Some of his duties are protecting Capitol parking lots.

The White House has...the Secret Service, CIA, and US military.

What makes you think Strongman Trump is going to abide by the Sargent at Arms attempting to arrest any of his current co-conspirators?

Are you sufficiently prepared to actually fight for your country? Right now?

It's not a matter of whether Strongman Trump is dangerous, or should be Impeached. It's whether it's the right move right now.

It's arguable about whether it should be tomorrow, or after these accusations have more substance. It's also arguable about whether Strongman Trump being effectively proven "innocent" (to a whole lot of Americans) by the Senate would end up killing the country by making a solid Strongman Trump "win" in November of 2020 more likely.

If, as I suspect, Republicans in the US Senate are loyal to Strongman Trump rather than the Constitution, country, or citizenry, a failed Impeachment may be better for Strongman Trump than a "win" in 2020. Hell, it could negate the need for 2020, if you ask Strongman Trump. And you won't have to, because he'll tell you and his millions of emphatic, armed supporters as much on Twitter, over and over.

Then what? More Impeachment?

Do you think everything I've just stated is unlikely, given everything we've seen so far? I'm interested in how you think an Impeachment tomorrow works out.
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What the Ds can't do (which they've been doing so far) is just cower behind the courts and legal proceedings, use the little time they get for a hearing (when they actually manage to get someone in) to just babble and grandstand, and otherwise try to punt their duties to the electorate at the end of next year while Trump rampages unchecked.

Is this what you voted for in 2018? Does weak and wobbly leadership energize you to vote in 2020?

Is this the way Republicans would handle it if Trump were a D?

Goddammit, they made a mountain out of nothing with emails and Benghazi, and Ds have buckets of ammo and can only seem to hit their own foot.

IMO this sounds like a repeat of 2016 and Trump/Russia, and if Ds don't change course you'll see him steal the election.
 
A

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,878
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it was just announced that Trump will release the transcript of the call with the Ukrainian President tomorrow.
 
UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,679
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alien42 said:
it was just announced that Trump will release the transcript of the call with the Ukrainian President tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Make no mistake—they know that the whistleblower will appear before Schiff’s committee and DNI will not prevent. This is Barr/Trump getting out ahead of the narrative again.
 
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Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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glenn1 said:
You realize that Russia and Ukraine (the subject of this thread) are two separate countries, right?

And even if you accept every single accusation around Russian election meddling and Trump complicity in said meddling, that still doesn't represent treason. Election fraud has a definition and treason has a definition, the two share basically zero overlap.
Click to expand...

They won't be if Putin has his way. He's already seized Crimea and has invaded Ukraine's Donbass region in the east.

This distinction without a difference argument you are trying to make is laughably obtuse.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
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glenn1 said:
Yeah, you just proved (again) you don't know the definition of "treason" and why it's different and distinct from election fraud. Not surprising.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying they will go after him legally and charge him with treason. I'm just saying that he's very clearly engaging in treasonous acts.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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glenn1 said:
You realize that Russia and Ukraine (the subject of this thread) are two separate countries, right?

And even if you accept every single accusation around Russian election meddling and Trump complicity in said meddling, that still doesn't represent treason. Election fraud has a definition and treason has a definition, the two share basically zero overlap.
Click to expand...
I'm referring to Russia's cyber attack. Trump aided and abetted Russia at Helsinki
 
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