Saw this question on r/atheism today.

[Doc Savage Fan]

Aye -- but for many it is also the end of any attempt at wisdom.

Sadly this is true for some. But what is even more sad is that there are many who are completely oblivious to the wonder Socrates and Einstein were referring to.

As for Einstein's quote, his beliefs were some mishmash of atheist, deist and pantheist. He certainly didn't believe in anything like the Christian idea of God.

I wasn't trying to say Einstein believed in the Christian idea of God. I was talking about "wonder".

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Of course I don't.

Great, then you don't get to use it in your arguments.

Atheists do, as long as the target is theists.

This is either irrelevant or Ad hominem tu quoque. Take your pick.

Oh, it's not out of fear for my position. I just don't want to open another debate, although it'll probably devolve into that anyway.

It may, but I was just needling you.

 

[sandorski]

I think the problems with both is that science seems to also be concerned with "proving" that belief in God is irrational, as if belief in God is somehow rejection of science, or visa versa. This is dogma... calling someone irrational for basically believing different than you regardless the reason.

You have to be a parody poster. C'mon man, that's the dumbest shit I have read in awhile.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He has not come again, heaven and earth have not disappeared. So you can hardly say that everything is accomplished.

I never said that everything has been accomplished. You apparently want to twist words into something you want to believe false. I think you might be confusing me with Rob.

 

[Nemesis 1]

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Only if you are not a king like David was . David was exemptied from law as all leaders are . This is why they are good for one thing and one thing only Hanging

 

[shadow9d9]

All of creation is evidence of a creator.

That is about as illogical as it comes. Things exist. That is proof only that things exist. Not that there is a magical superbeing out there that made it. This is why you can't have a logical discussion with most religious types. Making something up does NOT count as evidence.

 

[Nemesis 1]

You know nothing Juddog. Christians are all about the New Testament and a new covenant.

You need to comprehend better , The Christ did say . I have not come to change the law but fullfill the law . In other words GOD didn't want any more stupid ass laws made.Christ did say do not create law least ye be bound by them.

 

[Ausm]

True. Stalin was an atheist.

I think that has to do with his Ideology.

 

[Ausm]

All of creation is evidence of a creator.

What created the creator?

 

[SMOGZINN]

I never said that everything has been accomplished. You apparently want to twist words into something you want to believe false. I think you might be confusing me with Rob.

You are right, it should have been Rob M that I was replying to.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

You need to comprehend better , The Christ did say...

He did? When? Do you have a recording? I'd like to hear what His voice sounds like.

 

[IBMer]

I saw a comment someone made in a debate I think that was posted here that basically said, "All theists are atheists for 999 out of the 1000 religions out there, Atheists are just ahead by one."

 

[Atreus21]

That's.. more than a little circular, lol.

How?

 

[Atreus21]

That is about as illogical as it comes. Things exist. That is proof only that things exist. Not that there is a magical superbeing out there that made it. This is why you can't have a logical discussion with most religious types. Making something up does NOT count as evidence.

Illogical? You guys are seriously grasping here. Things exist. Are you asking us to amputate whatever natural curiosity we have to ascertain their origin? Do we witness complex things like wristwatches come into being on their own, or is the fact that they exist evidence of a watchmaker?

I'm sorry, but if you want to deny what is plainly evident to a blind person, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Atreus21]

What created the creator?

I suppose the only logical answer to that is that whatever the creator is, it has always existed; it is eternal. Otherwise you have an infinite regress of creators.

 

[Atreus21]

“Wonder is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Socrates

Dude that is a kickass quote. Where'd you find that?

 

[Atreus21]

Clearly you do not understand how evidence works. A is only evidence for B if A implies B and there could exist some not-A that implies not-B. You have said that there can not exist a not-A that implies not-B. This is unfalsifiability.

That's on top of the fact that you are question-begging by labeling reality a "creation" in the first place.

So this coffee on my desk is not evidence that someone made the coffee?

 

[sandorski]

I suppose the only logical answer to that is that whatever the creator is, it has always existed; it is eternal. Otherwise you have an infinite regress of creators.

1) How could this "Creator" always exist?

2) If it existed, couldn't what the Universe consists of also have always existed?

3) Assuming a Creator, how can you possibly know It exists if there is no Evidence of It's existence?

4) Assuming a Creator, how can anyone claim to know It's Thoughts/Will on any matter when it is impossible for one to verify It's existence?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Dude that is a kickass quote. Where'd you find that?

Socrates has a ton of great quotes. Enjoy.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/275648.Socrates

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

So this coffee on my desk is not evidence that someone made the coffee?

You don't appear to understand. The proposition "someone made a cup of coffee" is a falsifiable one, because there exist conceivable realities that would render that proposition false. This is not the case when one has alleged that literally everything in the universe is "evidence" that the universe was created.

Think about it this way: if everything was the same color, then color would be meaningless. You can't tell if something is evidence if you can't say what would be evidence to the contrary.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I suppose the only logical answer to that is that whatever the creator is, it has always existed; it is eternal.

Why can't that be true of the universe?

Otherwise you have an infinite regress of creators.

Do you think that and infinite regress is some kind of logical contradiction or incoherency?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Turtles all the way down.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Why can't that be true of the universe?


Do you think that and infinite regress is some kind of logical contradiction or incoherency?

I personally believe in a creator so powerful that He created Himself! A feat so amazing even He couldn't do it!

Turtles all the way down.

All the way up too!

 

[FelixDeCat]

So?

Science cannot be involved in everything anyway... there are things that happen in life that won't get a scientific explanation.

Again.... so what? It's life, let people believe what they want. Just because some things can't be tested in lab doesn't mean anything, really.

The sheer amount of things we do in life with little to no evidence testifies to the fact that science doesn't need to get involved.

Try explaining to your mate that you won't buy a house or go on vacation because you don't have "sufficient evidence" that your venture will succeed. Tell her you won't go to work until you have "testable and repeatable" evidence confirming that you will make it home safely after work for the next several decades.

Atheists make me laugh. Your replies are one of the reasons. :biggrin:

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Atheists make me laugh.

People who can't follow threads make me laugh.