Saw Ten: Microsoft will push WinX even harder in 2016

[ControlD]

With the exception of industrial equipment that was unfortunate enough to be made on something other than Linux.

Hell, I still support a ton of machines running on Windows NT.

Industrial equipment is a bit of a different topic though. I don't think anybody is expecting most of that stuff to be upgraded to the latest and greatest even if it were possible. Which in most cases it isn't.

Over the past few years I have gone from working with Windows almost exclusively to now working with Windows only as an exception. Linux based solutions are king these days.

 

[13Gigatons]

Here are your choices

I don't welcome a police state. I just don't see the internet as something private and so I one don't think anyone should reasonably expect total privacy when using devices that are connected to it.

Total privacy....how about just a little privacy. Stop reading emails and text messages for starters.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Oh no M$ is going to offer more free upgrades

Just like Volkswagen is offering "upgrades" hahaha.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Just like Volkswagen is offering "upgrades" hahaha.

Not exactly the same. Assuming you're privacy concerned do you use a Blackberry or maybe a windows phone. These are far better choices for privacy its even more important for a mobile device w/gps.
Personally its a nice offer to upgrade a bunch of people for free if you hate it you can go back or simply not do the upgrade.

 

[JoeBleed]

But it's still a very common thing to see old Windows OSes in use because it needs to interface with proprietary hardware. The equipment is often super expensive to replace and the latest and greatest model often has little to no actual improvement over what has been working for 10 years so companies will run the equipment indefinitely. Windows XP will probably remain in widespread use for 10 more years because of this.

haha, we have one running off an old AT based win95 computer. it died, i had to rebuild it with a slightly better computer, hardware wise, still running win95. Up until last year, we had to very expensive test bench sets that ran in DOS. Only reason we still don't have them is because we shut that devision down and shifted it to another plant. they are using the same test sets. we once got a quote to replace the whole bench set when we had a computer issue, they quoted us somewhere around 250k-300k dollars. to replace just the computer a lone, it was 23-25k if they sent a tech out to replace it. We opted for the self install with the cost being around 14k. It was nothing more than an industrial rack mount case. We did have to modify the cabinet a bit, but it wasn't hard. took about 3 hours total downtime if i remember right. the markup on standard PCs for industrial equipment from the equipments manufactures are insane.

Industrial stuff, from my experience, is like this. It's normal. I'm not sure why there was such a huge trend for a while, maybe still is to some extent, to use windows based PCs as machine controllers. Our head engineer said it was probably cheaper for them. but that's a guess. Our newer equipment thankfully aren't based off of windows PCs or PCs at all. They all seem to be fully PLC based with a solid state PLC vs windows PC running annoying software.

 

[Jeff7]

But it's still a very common thing to see old Windows OSes in use because it needs to interface with proprietary hardware. The equipment is often super expensive to replace and the latest and greatest model often has little to no actual improvement over what has been working for 10 years so companies will run the equipment indefinitely. Windows XP will probably remain in widespread use for 10 more years because of this.

No doubt. Some IT guys just tend to freak out a bit when you tell them that you need to put something on the network which will no longer be getting critical security updates.
Yes, there's just so much proprietary hardware, and they aren't going to budget anything for overhauling the drivers every few years.

Hell, I still support a ton of machines running on Windows NT.

Industrial equipment is a bit of a different topic though. I don't think anybody is expecting most of that stuff to be upgraded to the latest and greatest even if it were possible. Which in most cases it isn't.

Over the past few years I have gone from working with Windows almost exclusively to now working with Windows only as an exception. Linux based solutions are king these days.

Damn. Ouch.
I've seen a reflow oven running DOS and a CRT. There is much burn-in on that screen.
But it does what it needs to, and it doesn't need to be on a network.
Also in use at a nearby company is some kind of NC machine that still stores its programs on rolls of punched paper tape.

 

[dainthomas]

I've seen "Try Office 365" notification banner multiple times on my fresh, clean Win10 install.

Obviously the first step for the Illuminati in their quest for global domination is to get everyone using Office 365.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Obviously the first step for the Illuminati in their quest for global domination is to get everyone using Office 365.

Then they'll know everyone's "business"

 

[Brainonska511]

I've seen "Try Office 365" notification banner multiple times on my fresh, clean Win10 install.

I saw it once, then I uninstalled the Office app that was installed with W10. Never saw it again.

 

[Skel]

I saw it once, then I uninstalled the Office app that was installed with W10. Never saw it again.

Do you have a 365 subscription? I have it on one of my computers (got it free) and all it did was install the latest version of Office on it. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do that's evil other than being a subscription.

Edit: I meant to point out that I saw the "try it" banner on a computer that just had a older version of Office installed.. haven't tried it on one with the latest Office installed.

 

[Brainonska511]

Do you have a 365 subscription? I have it on one of my computers (got it free) and all it did was install the latest version of Office on it. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do that's evil other than being a subscription.

Edit: I meant to point out that I saw the "try it" banner on a computer that just had a older version of Office installed.. haven't tried it on one with the latest Office installed.

I have Office 2010 on my laptop and no Office on my HTPC. Neither PC is linked through a Microsoft account. But when I upgraded each (W7 to W10 and W8.1 to W10, respectively), there was some additional app called "Office 365" or something like that installed. I saw the "try it" banner once and never saw the "try it" banner after I removed the office thing.

 

[GrumpyMan]

We have ink jet printers that use W98 still and have Pentium 233s in them. We have to make the mobos or get them through Ebay. Of course they are on their own network and not connected to the main one. But the newer machines cost way over 100 grand so they aren't going anywhere and still function just fine. We just got W7 a little over a year ago.

I read somewhere that MS will continue to support W10 for at least another 10 years, just like all other releases. But that right there tells me that W10 is not the last os they are coming out with.

 

[ultimatebob]

I really didn't mind Windows 10 all that much. It worked pretty well on my laptop until the hard drive died on it.

 

[rockyct]

We have ink jet printers that use W98 still and have Pentium 233s in them. We have to make the mobos or get them through Ebay. Of course they are on their own network and not connected to the main one. But the newer machines cost way over 100 grand so they aren't going anywhere and still function just fine. We just got W7 a little over a year ago.

I read somewhere that MS will continue to support W10 for at least another 10 years, just like all other releases. But that right there tells me that W10 is not the last os they are coming out with.

They are basically moving to the OSX model of software updates and that's why they want everyone on Win10. There will be two to three minor updates every year and part of the requirement of Win10 is that you have to stay updated. I think you'll be able to delay updates or remain an update behind, but eventually Windows will force an update for home users. They will do this for the life of your one device (technically can't transfer your license to a new computer) for up to ten years. Win10 will be the last major Windows OS release like OSX 10.0 was the last major Mac OS release.

 

[Jeff7]

Lol, We have this same conversation every time Microsoft releases a new OS. The more things Change, the more they stay the same.

As far as why Microsoft would push Windows 10, there's one major reason, which is an attempt to undo decades of Microsoft being Microsoft.

Microsoft has been like Android for over 2 decades now, and it's created this wild wild west of not only malicious code, but also code created by lazy programmers with low standards.

This is evident for normal end users with things like HiDPI support, which has been a thorn in Microsoft's side compared to Apple's OS X. DPI-Awareness support in Windows 8.1 and later is a very important component of this. But Microsoft needs to get users on these later Operating Systems and needs to get developers' companies to pay the cash to make these apps supporting of it. That's why the Windows Store is so important as it will enforce the same not-crap standards that OS X has been able to leverage for a long time.

It's a slow process, but for us tinkerers, we have to remember that 99% of computer users are buying a computer just to use. They want it simple, quick, and "just works". The ecosystem Microsoft is building helps them get those features into Windows.

Such is the way of life. For the tinkerer, you still have Linux. Things change, and IT people who don't deal with change are useless IT people.

Except that they're now trying to push it out via WindowsUpdate, which seems very Microsoft.

My tablet's wifi connection got saturated yesterday downloading something big. (It's an old, slow wireless router.) I saw TrustedInstaller again in my processes list, and had a feeling it was the culprit.

I checked Windows Update, which is set to download updates automatically but then ask for permission to install them, and a 2.8GB update is in the Optional list. I guess it was going to queue up a 2.8GB Win10 install and then ask me if I wanted to install it.

Hopefully no one with Windows Update is on a limited connection, like a college campus. Back in the dorms in 2005, I was limited to 2GB/week. That goes away fast.

 

[poofyhairguy]

People like you scare me the most. You will welcome the Police State with open arms.

I think a distinction should be made between being monitored by the government and being monitored by corporations to best target advertising to you. Technically the government can subpoena what the corporations have, but if you encrypt your data before it touches the internet it doesn't matter what the subpoena says. No one is getting to it. Encrypted data is better protected than the info in any safe the richest drug dealer had in 1980.

If I was younger and more mobile I would try to find another country to live in that wasn't so Corporate and short sided.

You mean poor.

I fear the world kids will have to live in where anything they do in their lives will never be forgotten. Video Surveillance, Voice recordings, typed words, text, emails.

Meh, it will be a good thing long term. Thanks to a lack of privacy twenty years from now people will be WAY less judgemental. "Shameful" things today like sexual preferences will no longer matter as much, as the internet warriors will be too focused on those who are culturally backwards (aka racist, sexist, etc.) Meanwhile our legal system will get cleaned up a decent bit when we finally can get a real idea of how often people break minor laws like pot smoking or piracy. It will be shown that laws against such things are pointless when so many people break those rules, and instead governments will turn to regulating and taxing minor bad behaviors rather than pretend that making a law can extract them from our society.

If you are a religious authoritarian the next twenty years will be your living hell, but for the rest of us it will be liberating to be who we are to the world without fear of judgement or some sort of career implications.

 

[holden j caufield]

I feel people are missing the point. Doesn't matter if Win10 is the greatest thing ever. It's if I went to a Japanese place and ordered chicken and the chef tried to push sushi on me. I wouldn't eat it if free.

I'm hearing some outside sales people laptops tried to auto update to win10. That's a big no no.

 

[Jeff7]

I think a distinction should be made between being monitored by the government and being monitored by corporations to best target advertising to you. Technically the government can subpoena what the corporations have, but if you encrypt your data before it touches the internet it doesn't matter what the subpoena says. No one is getting to it. Encrypted data is better protected than the info in any safe the richest drug dealer had in 1980.

If it even takes a subpoena.
"Hey, we need access to your data."
"Ok. Wiring closet #37A is free. Have fun."

And I prefer not to be subjected to advertisement.
"There are two kinds of companies: Those who have been hacked, and those who don't know they've been hacked."

Similarly, there are two kinds of people: Those who are manipulated by advertising to buy things they don't really need, and those who think they're immune to manipulation.

I don't want targeted ads screwing with me, and I don't want to waste time ignoring them.

Encrypting your data's also not always an option.
Buying habits at a place like Amazon, or shopping habits on Google, aren't something you can encrypt.
That data now belongs to someone else.

You mean poor.


Meh, it will be a good thing long term. Thanks to a lack of privacy twenty years from now people will be WAY less judgemental. "Shameful" things today like sexual preferences will no longer matter as much, as the internet warriors will be too focused on those who are culturally backwards (aka racist, sexist, etc.) Meanwhile our legal system will get cleaned up a decent bit when we finally can get a real idea of how often people break minor laws like pot smoking or piracy. It will be shown that laws against such things are pointless when so many people break those rules, and instead governments will turn to regulating and taxing minor bad behaviors rather than pretend that making a law can extract them from our society.

If you are a religious authoritarian the next twenty years will be your living hell, but for the rest of us it will be liberating to be who we are to the world without fear of judgement or some sort of career implications.

Maybe in another hundred years. Look how slow government is to change already. There is still powerful opposition to marijuana, and the costly drug war continues.
More law-breakers could also mean more revenue generated from fines.
You've also got a governing body that has a healthy population of old white men who will resist change to the bitter end.

And moral crusaders will also chime in to try to polarize people.
"Oh no, it's even worse than we thought! The Aporkalypse is surely upon us!"
<commence sacrifices>

 

[Phoenix86]

I think a distinction should be made between being monitored by the government and being monitored by corporations to best target advertising to you. Technically the government can subpoena what the corporations have, but if you encrypt your data before it touches the internet it doesn't matter what the subpoena says. No one is getting to it. Encrypted data is better protected than the info in any safe the richest drug dealer had in 1980.

CISA says hello. Instead of the government spying on you directly, it's indirect. Just like how they allow our allies to spy on US citizens, then share the data with US gov't.

I'm all for sweeping privacy reform.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

I feel people are missing the point. Doesn't matter if Win10 is the greatest thing ever. It's if I went to a Japanese place and ordered chicken and the chef tried to push sushi on me. I wouldn't eat it if free.

I'm hearing some outside sales people laptops tried to auto update to win10. That's a big no no.

I would. Sushi is typically more expensive than chicken so

 

[poofyhairguy]

If it even takes a subpoena.
"Hey, we need access to your data."
"Ok. Wiring closet #37A is free. Have fun."

Actually some companies like Apple have a record of saying no whenever they can.

I don't want targeted ads screwing with me, and I don't want to waste time ignoring them.

Adblock then.

Encrypting your data's also not always an option.
Buying habits at a place like Amazon, or shopping habits on Google, aren't something you can encrypt.
That data now belongs to someone else.

Your buying habits at a retail place like Wal-Mart are also tracked. If you don't want someone tracking your shopping habbits you are stuck buying from local stores with cash.

Maybe in another hundred years. Look how slow government is to change already. There is still powerful opposition to marijuana, and the costly drug war continues.

Actually that isn't the case. We are seeing those laws weakening or going away completely (Colorado).

More law-breakers could also mean more revenue generated from fines.

Not as much as what can be made regulating and taxing the bad behavior. Colorado has made a killing with its pot tax for example.

You've also got a governing body that has a healthy population of old white men who will resist change to the bitter end.

That is why I kept saying in twenty years, aka when most of them are dead or retired.

And moral crusaders will also chime in to try to polarize people.

Sure, but WAY less people will be receptive to their narrative.

 

[poofyhairguy]

CISA says hello. Instead of the government spying on you directly, it's indirect. Just like how they allow our allies to spy on US citizens, then share the data with US gov't.

The government has been spying on Americans with impunity for decades (J. Edgar Hoover says hello).

You have a much better chance now being lost like a needle in a haystack than even twenty years ago. There is just too much data to spend resources looking for all but the worst criminals.

 

[Phoenix86]

The government has been spying on Americans with impunity for decades (J. Edgar Hoover says hello).

You have a much better chance now being lost like a needle in a haystack than even twenty years ago. There is just too much data to spend resources looking for all but the worst criminals.

Yes, I know, but direct vs. indirect makes a ton of difference. Legally, and resource wise. Why do the leg work when someone else will do it for you it lets you focus on the important task. Analyzing that data, and...

You vastly underestimate algorithms that sifts and sorts all that data. Which they are now free to focus on since collection is done by 3rd parties.

Don't discount that legal 2-step. It makes it significantly harder to get rid of.

 

[13Gigatons]

I think a distinction should be made between being monitored by the government and being monitored by corporations to best target advertising to you. Technically the government can subpoena what the corporations have, but if you encrypt your data before it touches the internet it doesn't matter what the subpoena says. No one is getting to it. Encrypted data is better protected than the info in any safe the richest drug dealer had in 1980.



You mean poor.



Meh, it will be a good thing long term. Thanks to a lack of privacy twenty years from now people will be WAY less judgemental. "Shameful" things today like sexual preferences will no longer matter as much, as the internet warriors will be too focused on those who are culturally backwards (aka racist, sexist, etc.) Meanwhile our legal system will get cleaned up a decent bit when we finally can get a real idea of how often people break minor laws like pot smoking or piracy. It will be shown that laws against such things are pointless when so many people break those rules, and instead governments will turn to regulating and taxing minor bad behaviors rather than pretend that making a law can extract them from our society.

If you are a religious authoritarian the next twenty years will be your living hell, but for the rest of us it will be liberating to be who we are to the world without fear of judgement or some sort of career implications.

I'm sure some of that encryption can be broken.

Plenty of good countries that are less corporate and better income equality.

Some things are just private like the bathroom or the bedroom or medical records. I imagine even these will be assaulted.

The legal system will continue to get worst because it's really just a TAX on poor people. It really generates incredible amounts of revenue and local governments are addicted to the money. Things will get worse.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Meh, it will be a good thing long term. Thanks to a lack of privacy twenty years from now people will be WAY less judgemental. "Shameful" things today like sexual preferences will no longer matter as much, as the internet warriors will be too focused on those who are culturally backwards (aka racist, sexist, etc.) Meanwhile our legal system will get cleaned up a decent bit when we finally can get a real idea of how often people break minor laws like pot smoking or piracy. It will be shown that laws against such things are pointless when so many people break those rules, and instead governments will turn to regulating and taxing minor bad behaviors rather than pretend that making a law can extract them from our society.

Really? That's an interesting take, because so far all it has done is make people worse.