Sarah Palin - "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time"

[dmcowen674]

Actually I am quite surprised as of late hearing so many people believing not only people playing with the Dinosaurs but also that it all occured only 6,000 years ago.

The brain washing is not only still working quite well but working even better.

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: QED

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
She ignores scientific evidence by instituting a wolf bounty program and when that failed, instituting aerial wolf hunting.

OK then, please explain the connection between that decision and her religious beliefs -- ie. the topic of this thread.

btw, I'm a wolf lover, so trust me, that really pisses me off... but, I'm just not sure it has anything to do with her religion, which is what we're talking about. So please explain...

Willingness to ignore scientific evidence? If you can believe dinosaurs and man walked the earth together with all the evidence against it, you can certainly discount what some scientist says about wolves.

Why in the world are we taking what some random yahoo off the street says as gospel and running with it?

I could make up a story about how I met with Michelle Obama five years ago and she kept saying "When my husband is President, whitey is going down!" and it would be just as credible as this.

The dinosaurs thing is just one example. She also wants to teach intelligent design in schools, that also requires a willingness to ignore scientific evidence. I'm not aware of anyone contesting the music teacher's account, but even if they do the point still stands.

The "dinasaurs things" isn't even one example if it's not true, and I prefer not to take something as truth based solely on the word of a stranger who obviously is not a fan of Palin-- again, it is about as credible as me saying Michelle Obama used the word "whitey" derogatively when I spoke to her five years ago.

Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that Palin "wants to teach intelligent design in schools"-- she has been the governor of Alaska for two years now-- are they teaching intelligent design in schools there? Has she proposed legislation mandating the teaching of intelligent design? No, and no. She has stated repeatedly that only science (and specifically, evolution) should be taught in science class-- but that if alternative theories are brought up she didn't see the harm in discussing and/or debating them.

She has had several opportunities to inject her religious beliefs into government policies-- including a chance to sign into law a bill limiting the rights of domestic partners of state employees, which she vetoed-- but she has instead thus far kept her religious beliefs seperate from her policy stances.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: QED

The "dinasaurs things" isn't even one example if it's not true, and I prefer not to take something as truth based solely on the word of a stranger who obviously is not a fan of Palin-- again, it is about as credible as me saying Michelle Obama used the word "whitey" derogatively when I spoke to her five years ago.

Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that Palin "wants to teach intelligent design in schools"-- she has been the governor of Alaska for two years now-- are they teaching intelligent design in schools there? Has she proposed legislation mandating the teaching of intelligent design? No, and no. She has stated repeatedly that only science (and specifically, evolution) should be taught in science class-- but that if alternative theories are brought up she didn't see the harm in discussing and/or debating them.

She has had several opportunities to inject her religious beliefs into government policies-- including a chance to sign into law a bill limiting the rights of domestic partners of state employees, which she vetoed-- but she has instead thus far kept her religious beliefs seperate from her policy stances.

Sorry but you're just wrong. There is exactly something that indicates she wants to teach ID in schools... her own words on the subject.

From the Anchorage Daily News: Link

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

It doesn't matter if she hasn't succeeded in putting ID in schools, she has specifically and in public stated that she wants to. So, like I said. Willingness to ignore science.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: QED
but she has instead thus far kept her religious beliefs seperate from her policy stances.

...which was the point of this debate, or so I thought.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
If she believes that dinosaurs and man walked the earth at the same time simply means that she's capable of ignoring mountains of evidence in favor of some belief that she's been taught she must abide for fear of burning in hell if she believes otherwise. We don't need another president who ignores evidence and comes to his own conclusions based on the conclusion he had already reached before the evidence was presented.

Evidence that was put there by Satan, and then spewed forth to the public by his loyal servants, scientists.

And that just shows how strong of a leader she would be. Her faith is so unshakable, that even when it's shown to be utterly absurd, and bordering on mental illness, she would still believe it. That's the kind of "stay-the-course-no-matter-what" person we need in charge here.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: QED
but she has instead thus far kept her religious beliefs seperate from her policy stances.

...which was the point of this debate, or so I thought.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding about this. Willingness to ignore science = bad. Not even debated science where things aren't clear. Settled facts. (or as settled as anything ever gets in science)

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: QED

The "dinasaurs things" isn't even one example if it's not true, and I prefer not to take something as truth based solely on the word of a stranger who obviously is not a fan of Palin-- again, it is about as credible as me saying Michelle Obama used the word "whitey" derogatively when I spoke to her five years ago.

Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that Palin "wants to teach intelligent design in schools"-- she has been the governor of Alaska for two years now-- are they teaching intelligent design in schools there? Has she proposed legislation mandating the teaching of intelligent design? No, and no. She has stated repeatedly that only science (and specifically, evolution) should be taught in science class-- but that if alternative theories are brought up she didn't see the harm in discussing and/or debating them.

She has had several opportunities to inject her religious beliefs into government policies-- including a chance to sign into law a bill limiting the rights of domestic partners of state employees, which she vetoed-- but she has instead thus far kept her religious beliefs seperate from her policy stances.

Sorry but you're just wrong. There is exactly something that indicates she wants to teach ID in schools... her own words on the subject.

From the Anchorage Daily News: Link

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

It doesn't matter if she hasn't succeeded in putting ID in schools, she has specifically and in public stated that she wants to. So, like I said. Willingness to ignore science.

Sorry, eskimospy-- I thought you had a bit more integrity to just copy out of context one phrase from that article without including anything that might counter your argument. From that same article:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum

It's two years later, and she has kept her word-- when she was elected, she did not push the State Board of Election to teach anything other than evolution in public schools. There have been zero attempts, and she could have attempted it if she really wanted (with an approval rating at 85% she has some political capital to spare).

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: QED

Sorry, eskimospy-- I thought you had a bit more integrity to just copy out of context one phrase from that article without including anything that might counter your argument. From that same article:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum

It's two years later, and she has kept her word-- when she was elected, she did not push the State Board of Election to teach anything other than evolution in public schools. There have been zero attempts, and she could have attempted it if she really wanted (with an approval rating at 85% she has some political capital to spare).

Dude, my entire point was that she is willing to ignore science in her viewpoints, her statement that she believes in ID makes that indisputable. I know that she hasn't tried to force ID into the state schools, for like the 30th time that's not what this is about.

She is willing to ignore reality if it doesn't fit her ideology. Anyone who believes in ID is doing exactly that. You are right that she's not trying to teach ID in the schools, sorry if my post said something that effect. If you read all my posts in this thread though my problem with her is that you simply can't trust the judgment of someone who is willing to ignore objective scientific evidence.

 

[techs]

Hey, I just watched Primeval. Humans and dinosaurs walked together. Its true! I saw it on TV.!

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: QED

Sorry, eskimospy-- I thought you had a bit more integrity to just copy out of context one phrase from that article without including anything that might counter your argument. From that same article:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum

It's two years later, and she has kept her word-- when she was elected, she did not push the State Board of Election to teach anything other than evolution in public schools. There have been zero attempts, and she could have attempted it if she really wanted (with an approval rating at 85% she has some political capital to spare).

Dude, my entire point was that she is willing to ignore science in her viewpoints, her statement that she believes in ID makes that indisputable. I know that she hasn't tried to force ID into the state schools, for like the 30th time that's not what this is about.

She is willing to ignore reality if it doesn't fit her ideology. Anyone who believes in ID is doing exactly that. You are right that she's not trying to teach ID in the schools, sorry if my post said something that effect. If you read all my posts in this thread though my problem with her is that you simply can't trust the judgment of someone who is willing to ignore objective scientific evidence.

Biden as a Catholic believes in the Immaculate Conception-- that a virgin just woke up one morning and was pregnant.

Obama as a Christian believes 2000 years ago a man was crucified and died, but miraculously came back to life 3 days later.

Both of these beliefs run completely counter to strict scientific thought and analysis-- does that mean Obama and Biden's judgement cannot be trusted?

We have no proof that Palin actually believes Dinasaurs and humans walked the earth together other than the word of a single person who bizarrely claims she made that confession to him (and apparently, him alone). It's not disputed that she, like Obama, professes to be a Christian-- but is simply being a Christian proof that you lack the judgement to be President or Vice-President? I would hope not...

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
WTF?

ANCHORAGE -- Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct -- the teacher said.

After conducting a college band and watching Palin deliver a commencement address to a small group of home-schooled students in June 1997, Wasilla resident Philip Munger said, he asked the young mayor about her religious beliefs.

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said. When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger, who teaches music at the University of Alaska in Anchorage and has regularly criticized Palin in recent years on his liberal political blog, called Progressive Alaska.

...must of been McCain (talking about the part italicized).

This should be a question at the VP debate.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: QED
Obama as a Christian believes 2000 years ago a man was crucified and died, but miraculously came back to life 3 days later.

Have you got any examples of something occurring in the last, oh, 1500 years that Obama/Biden takes the word of their religion over that of science?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: QED
It's not disputed that she, like Obama, professes to be a Christian-- but is simply being a Christian proof that you lack the judgement to be President or Vice-President? I would hope not...

I honestly believe that is exactly what folks like Eskimospy are waiting for some day.

I'm not religious myself, but I have no problem at all with leaders who are -- as long as they do not allow the whacky (fantasy/non-scientific) aspects of their chosen religion to effect policy.

However, I very much believe that there is a growing number of people out there who wish for an entirely atheist government.

The only thing that really bothers me about that goal is the fact that, in the meantime, those same people are all too willing to look past the faith of the candidate that they support, while they go hog-wild in their attempts to make opposing candidates -- of the same damn faith -- look like whackjobs.

It's all a very odd and overtly hypocritical cycle...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: QED

Biden as a Catholic believes in the Immaculate Conception-- that a virgin just woke up one morning and was pregnant.

Obama as a Christian believes 2000 years ago a man was crucified and died, but miraculously came back to life 3 days later.

Both of these beliefs run completely counter to strict scientific thought and analysis-- does that mean Obama and Biden's judgement cannot be trusted?

We have no proof that Palin actually believes Dinasaurs and humans walked the earth together other than the word of a single person who bizarrely claims she made that confession to him (and apparently, him alone). It's not disputed that she, like Obama, professes to be a Christian-- but is simply being a Christian proof that you lack the judgement to be President or Vice-President? I would hope not...

How many times have you tried this argument? It's absurd.

The belief in the immaculate conception, zombie jesus, etc. are certainly all matters of religious faith that defy the way humans see the world normally. All of these beliefs are predicated upon a belief in some sort of sky beardo making magic here on the world. Sure, I don't like this in my politicians but there doesn't seem to be much choice in the matter.

You are mistaking cause and evidence in this case. In the case of Mary all our understanding of biology says that story is a load of shit. (I happen to agree) There is no specific evidence with Mary however that actually disproves the story. Palin's belief in dinosaurs and ID (no need to focus on dinosaurs, ID is just as stupid as believing in dinosaurs and man walking together) specifically discounts evidence that we have that EXACTLY relates to the claims she makes. For example, I can't say that the computer I have is powered by elves, and that if you believe in the virgin birth that we're both equal somehow. You can crack open my computer and show me that it's not. You can't go dig up Mary and take her to the OB/GYN.

One set of claims is undermined on its premise by science. The other is explicitly disproven on its own merits by science. I dislike them both, but one is obviously far worse. An attempt to equate the two simply doesn't fly.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: QED
It's not disputed that she, like Obama, professes to be a Christian-- but is simply being a Christian proof that you lack the judgement to be President or Vice-President? I would hope not...

I honestly believe that is exactly what folks like Eskimospy are waiting for some day.

I'm not religious myself, but I have no problem at all with leaders who are -- as long as they do not allow the whacky (fantasy/non-scientific) aspects of their chosen religion to effect policy.

However, I very much believe that there is a growing number of people out there who wish for an entirely atheist government.

The only thing that really bothers me about that goal is the fact that, in the meantime, those same people are all too willing to look past the faith of the candidate that they support, while they go hog-wild in their attempts to make opposing candidates -- of the same damn faith -- look like whackjobs.

It's all a very odd and overtly hypocritical cycle...

Oh save me from what you think I think.

Anyone who is religious does take a hit in my book because they believe things I find silly. It's not a disqualifier, but it's certainly a down check. That being said all forms of religion are nowhere near equally silly. Presbyterians and Pentecostals are both technically Protestant denominations, but I find a bunch of southeastern Pennsylvania middle class people a lot less stupid than people pretending to speak in tongues with the power of jesus floating through them.

If Obama was an atheist that would be even better. He's not though. He also doesn't believe dinosaurs and man coexisted, that T-Rexes ate vegetables before the fall, and that ID is science. So that's 3 extra checks down for our good friend the governor. You're just continuing to be deliberately obtuse in defense of some point you're trying to cling to. (and why you are I can't fathom.)

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: QED
It's not disputed that she, like Obama, professes to be a Christian-- but is simply being a Christian proof that you lack the judgement to be President or Vice-President? I would hope not...

I honestly believe that is exactly what folks like Eskimospy are waiting for some day.

I'm not religious myself, but I have no problem at all with leaders who are -- as long as they do not allow the whacky (fantasy/non-scientific) aspects of their chosen religion to effect policy.

However, I very much believe that there is a growing number of people out there who wish for an entirely atheist government.

The only thing that really bothers me about that goal is the fact that, in the meantime, those same people are all too willing to look past the faith of the candidate that they support, while they go hog-wild in their attempts to make opposing candidates -- of the same damn faith -- look like whackjobs.

It's all a very odd and overtly hypocritical cycle...

Are you comparing, a Pentecostal Dominionist to mainstream Christianity?

Assemblies of God members represent a tiny fraction of evangelicals. Of the 26 percent of white Americans who identify as evangelical, 4 percent belong to Pentecostal denominations, and 1 percent belong to the Assemblies of God.

Sarah Palin took the stage at the Wasilla Assembly of God, a deeply conservative Pentecostal church. She told a graduating class of missionary students that :

"It was so cool growing up in this church, getting saved here, getting baptized." She went on to declare that her son Track will deploy to Iraq, and urged students to pray "that our leaders, that our national leaders, are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God." She added: "That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for - that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

One big question about Palin is how that deterministic view of God's will in world affairs influences her decision-making on issues ranging from the Middle East to the environment, sexuality to education. What is not in doubt is that her addition to the Republican ticket has fired up the religious right and the party's most conservative base.

The McCain campaign has downplayed Palin's Pentecostal roots. But as her testimony at the Wasilla Assembly of God demonstrates, she is motivated by the idea that godly forces are locked in spiritual warfare with satanic forces. For many with a Pentecostal upbringing like Palin's, fighting that battle is part of God's plan for the end of days, when war will end the world as we know it, Jesus will come back, and non-Christians will convert or perish.

Pentecostals celebrate that spiritual battle. And the religious right is rapturous about having Palin on their side. The McCain camp may want to play her as the reformer maverick, but it's her Christian warrior spirit that has really brought McCain and his team the jolt they've been looking for.

 

[BladeVenom]

Isn't Obama a Bible believing Christian who was a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ?

Has Obama ever came out and said that he doesn't believe the book of Genesis?

Or is it OK to mindlessly bash Palin because she's a Republican, but you believe Democrats are sacred and shouldn't be held to the same standards?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
......
"It was so cool growing up in this church, getting saved here, getting baptized." She went on to declare that her son Track will deploy to Iraq, and urged students to pray "that our leaders, that our national leaders, are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God." She added: "That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for - that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

One big question about Palin is how that deterministic view of God's will in world affairs influences her decision-making on issues ranging from the Middle East to the environment, sexuality to education. What is not in doubt is that her addition to the Republican ticket has fired up the religious right and the party's most conservative base.

.....

And remember, when they (over there, bad guys) say that they're on a mission from their deity to kill us, they're crazy.
When we say that our soldiers are on a mission from our deity, you have to break down and start praying or singing "God Bless America."

Does not compute!
Does not compute!

Stupid people.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Or is it OK to mindlessly bash Palin because she's a Republican, but you believe Democrats are sacred and shouldn't be held to the same standards?

No, but it's absolutely valid to ask whether Palin's mindless beliefs raise questions about her qualifications to sit a heartbeat away from the Presidency of a 72 year old four time cancer survivor.

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: QED
Obama as a Christian believes 2000 years ago a man was crucified and died, but miraculously came back to life 3 days later.

Have you got any examples of something occurring in the last, oh, 1500 years that Obama/Biden takes the word of their religion over that of science?

So it's only bad judgement when your religious beliefs contradict scientific analysis AND that scientific analysis is less than 1500 years old?

Even if Palin believed only in Intelligent Design (and I haven't seen anything definitive on this), that is a debate about something that happened obviously more than 1500 years ago... so where are you going with this?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Isn't Obama a Bible believing Christian who was a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ?

Has Obama ever came out and said that he doesn't believe the book of Genesis?

Or is it OK to mindlessly bash Palin because she's a Republican, but you believe Democrats are sacred and shouldn't be held to the same standards?

no, don't read the first 6 pages of the thread or anything, just jump right in with questions answered 10 times already, and even on the same page

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: QED

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: QED
Obama as a Christian believes 2000 years ago a man was crucified and died, but miraculously came back to life 3 days later.

Have you got any examples of something occurring in the last, oh, 1500 years that Obama/Biden takes the word of their religion over that of science?

So it's only bad judgement when your religious beliefs contradict scientific analysis AND that scientific analysis is less than 1500 years old?

Even if Palin believed only in Intelligent Design (and I haven't seen anything definitive on this), that is a debate about something that happened obviously more than 1500 years ago... so where are you going with this?

face. palm.

Have you ever heard a scientist speak definitively to christ's divinity or the virgin birth? i'm guessing no.

Have you ever heard a scientist speak definitively as to the age of the earth and at what periods certain animals existed? i'd hope yes.

Believing something for which science has not attempted to refute is acceptable, even if current science would seem to contradict an event that otherwise relies on pure faith.

Believing something contrary to what science has directly established is assinine, and hiding behind religion is not an excuse.

So again, what has modern science established, even in the last 200 years, that Obama refutes or disagrees with based on his religious views?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Isn't Obama a Bible believing Christian who was a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ?

Has Obama ever came out and said that he doesn't believe the book of Genesis?

Or is it OK to mindlessly bash Palin because she's a Republican, but you believe Democrats are sacred and shouldn't be held to the same standards?

If Obama was a Fundie Nut Case like Palin he'd bee getting it here too.

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
......
"It was so cool growing up in this church, getting saved here, getting baptized." She went on to declare that her son Track will deploy to Iraq, and urged students to pray "that our leaders, that our national leaders, are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God." She added: "That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for - that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

One big question about Palin is how that deterministic view of God's will in world affairs influences her decision-making on issues ranging from the Middle East to the environment, sexuality to education. What is not in doubt is that her addition to the Republican ticket has fired up the religious right and the party's most conservative base.

.....

And remember, when they (over there, bad guys) say that they're on a mission from their deity to kill us, they're crazy.
When we say that our soldiers are on a mission from our deity, you have to break down and start praying or singing "God Bless America."

Does not compute!
Does not compute!

Stupid people.

You guys are being willfully ignorant. Her comment was simply asking people to pray that we are on God's side, it wasn't a declaration that He was on our side. I know both probably sound equally insipid to someone who doesn't believe in God in the first place, but there is a difference between the two-- and it's nothing new: Bill Clinton made the same invocation when announcing troop deployments to the Bosnian region, LBJ made the same invocation when announcing troop deployments to Vietnam, JFK made the same invocation in his Inaugural Address. Similar sentiments have been expressed by Eisenhower, Truman, FDR, and Lincoln.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: QED

Originally posted by: Jeff7
And remember, when they (over there, bad guys) say that they're on a mission from their deity to kill us, they're crazy.
When we say that our soldiers are on a mission from our deity, you have to break down and start praying or singing "God Bless America."

Does not compute!
Does not compute!

Stupid people.

You guys are being willfully ignorant. Her comment was simply asking people to pray that we are on God's side, it wasn't a declaration that He was on our side. I know both probably sound equally insipid to someone who doesn't believe in God in the first place, but there is a difference between the two-- and it's nothing new: Bill Clinton made the same invocation when announcing troop deployments to the Bosnian region, LBJ made the same invocation when announcing troop deployments to Vietnam, JFK made the same invocation in his Inaugural Address. Similar sentiments have been expressed by Eisenhower, Truman, FDR, and Lincoln.

Oh, ok. So they aren't already on a mission from God. We're just asking God to condone the mission.
Close enough.

Wasn't Bush elected to the presidency by God though?


Yeah, God always approves of "your" side, picking favorites in everything, right down to baseball games.


"That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for - that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."
It'd suck if the decision of a few mere humans could derail God's entire grand master plan for humanity. I think we'd be way off course by now if that were possible.