Salon article, not and alt right site. Bernie had a real shot in fact would have won.

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
Your English is fine, it's just a term that can mean different things to different people. Just a side note, Sanders is a life long independent who now wants to change the DNC now that he has some power within the DNC.
Yup, time for the losers to be thrown out or wake up to the fact of what they have become and why that won't win elections. A democratic party is supposed to represent everybody, not speak to identity and gender politics only and be beholden to the rich, campaign on hollow messages, or smear the very people whose votes you need to win.

There are lots of progressives on this board who get it. Maybe you noticed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
If your belief that the electorate was in an anti-establishment mood were true then Trump would have won the popular vote. He did not, by a significant margin. Therefore your belief is false but you hold to it anyway.
Right, if Sanders had been our candidate you would have voted for Trump. Sanders had the message that resonated in the states she lost by small margins. You are arguing and mad at me that my warnings about Clinton cost her support, but I'm arguing with you that your support of her gave us Trump. There was a brief moment when a man who sees that democracy is dead had a chance to have the bully pulpit. Now we have a full blown fucking disaster. Pay no attention to me. Listen to Bowfinger. He seems to lack the liberal brain defect, Probably a conservative that rejected the programming via reasoning.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I did not assert that Bernie is a member of the "Establishment". He has always set himself outside that, until he ran for President. To cooperate is one thing. To lead is entirely another, certainly when you're talking about either party.
Then we have the question about the nature of the Democratic Party. What takes precident, having control or doing what is right? They aren't automatically mutually exclusive, but what if Bernie had a better chance of winning in the general and the institutional Demss knew it. What would happen? Would they understand that Hillary no matter the reason had been marked long ago and go with her anyway risking Trump to win, or go with someone they had no hooks in (or anyone else for that matter) and who influence their status quo?

I think the answer was the former. For all the talk about the Republicans have used? He's spooky clean. But they could make up something. Well they could try but remember the Iraq and Cheney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld? Those powers that were had the CIA to do just that sort of thing against Hans Blix and they failed. You'll have to trust me on this or not, but the people the Republicans used against Hillary are rank amateurs compared to the Agency. All the CIA got was their ass chewed out by Cheney.

It comes down to what is best for whom. The Party comes first and all other things are secondary.
 
Last edited:

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Then we have the question about the nature of the Democratic Party. What takes precident, having control or doing what is right? They aren't automatically mutually exclusive, but what if Bernie had a better chance of winning in the general and the institutional Demss knew it. What would happen? Would they understand that Hillary no matter the reason had been marked long ago and go with her anyway risking Trump to win, or go with someone they had no hooks in (or anyone else for that matter) and who influence their status quo?

I think the answer was the former. For all the talk about the Republicans have used? He's spooky clean. But they could make up something. Well they could try but remember the Iraq and Cheney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld? Those powers that were had the CIA to do just that sort of thing against Hans Blix and they failed. You'll have to trust me on this or not, but the people the Republicans used against Hillary are rank amateurs compared to the Agency. All the CIA got was their ass chewed out by Cheney.

It comes down to what is best for whom. The Party comes first and all other things are secondary.

Nice conspiracy theories, I'll give you that, and the standard concern troll talking points that bitter Bernie Bros will cling to the way that conservatives cling to God, guns & religion.

Get back to us after you've read the 2016 Democratic party platform, OK? It was formulated with a lot of help from pro-Bernie Democrats & is the most progressive platform ever.

If it wasn't for the back biters & the nay sayers Hillary would be working to implement it as we converse.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,637
10,501
136
I don't believe it. Every single time in history that the Democrats have tried a far left candidate they have been crushed in a landslide. I don't see how Sanders would have been any different.
Yea, some of us have been through this shit too many times. Remember McGovern?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,304
15,097
136
What it really boils down to is this: will those on the left, be it "true progressive", liberals, or center left, vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating trump or will they once again sabotage their own desire for progress and vote for someone else who is more pure in their mind?

If you think the Democratic party needs to do certain things and promote certain types of candidates or policies, have at it, we can debate that all day. However, when the time comes and we have candidate X against candidate trump, will you vote for X or not? If not then, as far as I'm concerned, you are part of the problem.

In the future, when it's candidate X vs candidate Y and both are qualified but have differing policy positions, by all means vote for who ever you want. Until then though, the choice really is black or white and you are either with us or against us.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,304
15,097
136
The election is long over, time to move on and chart a new course.

No point in charting a new course if we are dealing with the tea party/freedom caucus of the left. I certainly won't support the lefts version of trump. Would you?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
It's simple, vote your choice in the primary, vote Democrat party straight ticket in the general. Or lose health insurance, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dank69

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Nice conspiracy theories, I'll give you that, and the standard concern troll talking points that bitter Bernie Bros will cling to the way that conservatives cling to God, guns & religion.

Get back to us after you've read the 2016 Democratic party platform, OK? It was formulated with a lot of help from pro-Bernie Democrats & is the most progressive platform ever.

If it wasn't for the back biters & the nay sayers Hillary would be working to implement it as we converse.

So you cling to the status quo and blame everything on everyone but the Dem machine. That's astounding partisan adherence, anti-vaxxer strength. Everyone else. Well no and in no possible universe can misreading the public not be the fault of the campaign as a whole. You are preaching fire and brimstone and we're all justly damned to hell because we question your political religion. So be it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,550
29,205
136
[

Sorry Moonbeam, but I'm largely in agreement with ivwshane here. The things you're saying these days just don't ring true. Your explanation for gushing over Trump is that you knew he would win the primary and beat Clinton? The fact that you thought he would beat the democrat is really why you liked him so much? That makes no sense at all. Why don't you take a stab at telling us the real reason for your infatuation with Trump last year. I personally found it disturbing at the time, but didn't say anything about it then. Not until after Trump won and you took it upon yourself to arrogantly blame others for Trump's win in spite of your repeated praising of him and dishonest bashing of Clinton. Honestly Moonbeam, you used to be a unique and interesting poster, but you're starting to sound disingenuous like so many others.

For the record: it's a disgrace for a progressive to actually be confused as to whether Clinton was a better candidate than Trump. Maybe you feel guilty about that and now you're projecting that guilt and self-hate on to the Clinton supporters. Sound like a nice theory?
I think when Moonbeam was saying that shit he was echoing what he believed the conservative mindset to be. He was trying to explain how the Trump message was resonating with people.

That's all well and good but I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't cater and pander to a populace that exists in an altered reality. I'd rather see the population culled by half than make idiocracy the new normal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
I think when Moonbeam was saying that shit he was echoing what he believed the conservative mindset to be. He was trying to explain how the Trump message was resonating with people.

That's all well and good but I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't cater and pander to a populace that exists in an altered reality. I'd rather see the population culled by half than make idiocracy the new normal.
Culled in what way, by use of the one ring of power? If you mean exterminate, then they are rightfully obliged to see your thinking never comes to power. How is authoritarianism on the left better than on the right? And what are the feelings that drive that. Is your American life really really that bad? You can feel anything you actually do feel, but don't for everybody's sake try to act that out.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,546
2,138
146
Culled in what way, by use of the one ring of power? If you mean exterminate, then they are rightfully obliged to see your thinking never comes to power. How is authoritarianism on the left better than on the right? And what are the feelings that drive that. Is your American life really really that bad? You can feel anything you actually do feel, but don't for everybody's sake try to act that out.
When discussions stop, the shooting starts. Sounds like he's ready for Phase II to me, and I hear disturbing echoes of this sentiment from all over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
When discussions stop, the shooting starts. Sounds like he's ready for Phase II to me, and I hear disturbing echoes of this sentiment from all over.
Well there is the matter of 'just war' and the truth expressed in the Declaration of Independence when a sea of troubles demands that we take up arms and end them. We have, even in the eyes of many conservatives put a psycho in power. It's not just the authoritarian left that Trump is kicking into gear. The best way out of this mess we are in, as far as I can see, is to make Democrats relevant to to those who feel they have lost their democracy.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,483
13,075
136
Culled in what way, by use of the one ring of power? If you mean exterminate, then they are rightfully obliged to see your thinking never comes to power. How is authoritarianism on the left better than on the right? And what are the feelings that drive that. Is your American life really really that bad? You can feel anything you actually do feel, but don't for everybody's sake try to act that out.

When discussions stop, the shooting starts. Sounds like he's ready for Phase II to me, and I hear disturbing echoes of this sentiment from all over.

Thats a borderline strawman and an overinterpretation of the data given for the sole excuse to enact and assume righteousness on your own part. Common. This is what you are up against : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,546
2,138
146
Thats a borderline strawman and an overinterpretation of the data given for the sole excuse to enact and assume righteousness on your own part. Common. This is what you are up against : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
It's your right not to take him seriously. I don't take anything here too seriously anymore. Here's the part we're talking about:

...I'd rather see the population culled by half than make idiocracy the new normal.

Those sound like pretty strong and clear words. Maybe you agree with him, but that doesn't make my reaction disingenuous.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
Thats a borderline strawman and an overinterpretation of the data given for the sole excuse to enact and assume righteousness on your own part. Common. This is what you are up against : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
Sounds like opinion to me. In order to respond with something resembling a logical rebuttal I would have to know what righteousness you think I or we are assuming and how the extermination of people I and or you consider to be idiots is a right. And bear in mind that if you manage to convince me I do have that right, what's to say I won't put you on the top of the list?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,550
29,205
136
Culled in what way, by use of the one ring of power? If you mean exterminate, then they are rightfully obliged to see your thinking never comes to power. How is authoritarianism on the left better than on the right? And what are the feelings that drive that. Is your American life really really that bad? You can feel anything you actually do feel, but don't for everybody's sake try to act that out.
I don't need to act anything out. You know Democracy is broken. You know the wealthy have too much control. You know the wealth gap is unsustainable. Even the deplorables know things are out of whack. Everyone can feel it. But what has America done? Wrestled control away from the only people trying to stop it and given the reins back to the party responsible for getting us where we are today. So now instead of continuing on the healing path we had just got back on, America has chartered a course straight to full blown oligarchy. So fuck it. This next great depression won't see meek motherfuckers in bread lines. This time we will be dining on the corpses of royalty. Of course, not before suffering billions of casualties at the hands of the ruling class. The silver lining will be that nobody will remember who the fuck Yeezy is. Maybe we will have the good sense to completely outlaw organized religion while we're at it. Feel free to pray or worship whoever you want, but the second you try to spread the good news you get slapped with a crushing fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
So you cling to the status quo and blame everything on everyone but the Dem machine. That's astounding partisan adherence, anti-vaxxer strength. Everyone else. Well no and in no possible universe can misreading the public not be the fault of the campaign as a whole. You are preaching fire and brimstone and we're all justly damned to hell because we question your political religion. So be it.

Yes, the "Dem machine" is obviously the real adversary, not Trump & the Repub machine. Let us dwell on recriminations & woulda, coulda, shoulda beens, follow the insincerity of concern trolls who seek only to divide us & weaken our efforts over water under the bridge.

You adopt the same poisonous negativity as Trumpsters & make the perfect the enemy of the good.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,644
6,189
126
I don't need to act anything out. You know Democracy is broken. You know the wealthy have too much control. You know the wealth gap is unsustainable. Even the deplorables know things are out of whack. Everyone can feel it. But what has America done? Wrestled control away from the only people trying to stop it and given the reins back to the party responsible for getting us where we are today. So now instead of continuing on the healing path we had just got back on, America has chartered a course straight to full blown oligarchy. So fuck it. This next great depression won't see meek motherfuckers in bread lines. This time we will be dining on the corpses of royalty. Of course, not before suffering billions of casualties at the hands of the ruling class. The silver lining will be that nobody will remember who the fuck Yeezy is. Maybe we will have the good sense to completely outlaw organized religion while we're at it. Feel free to pray or worship whoever you want, but the second you try to spread the good news you get slapped with a crushing fine.
Everything that has happened couldn't happen any other way. Sleepers have no agency. There is nobody to blame.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,483
13,075
136
..And bear in mind that if you manage to convince me I do have that right, what's to say I won't put you on the top of the list?

What the hell are you talking about? I assume that you dont mean me personally but use me as metaphor. Correct?
How is it that you are allowed to use metaphors but when interpreting your opposing party everything is literal? You are not advancing your point like this, only coming forward as dishonest.
Or did you in fact mean the literal me? Cause, you know.. after threat comes action.
Point is still the same, divide a country wide enough and civil war is inevitable. Is the US there yet? No. This is a waste of time.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
No point in charting a new course if we are dealing with the tea party/freedom caucus of the left. I certainly won't support the lefts version of trump. Would you?

You think Bernie Sanders is the "Trump of the left"? Have you lost the little of the mind you have left?