Ryan's "breathtakingly dishonest speech"

[OneOfTheseDays]

No, I didn't read the entire Fact Check article. It includes many different claims and my post is only about this one Ryan statement.

I never said the entire Fact Check article was wrong. I did glance at some of their other claims and my recollection was that some of their criticism looked valid.

I don't know that I want to go through the entire thing. My recollection was that it was quite long.

Fern

Of course. You're a card carrying Republican. You don't want to analyze or look at any evidence that contradicts the comfort of your right wing echo chamber.

You are exactly what's wrong with politics. Exactly what's wrong. Low information voters that refuse to educate themselves.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This guy even lies about his marathon times.

Last week, in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, Paul Ryan said that he had run a marathon in under three hours, or, more precisely, “I had a two hour and fifty-something.” That is quite speedy, and running fans in the forums of Letsrun.com treated the claim with great skepticism. The Internet bears no trace of the run, and Ryan doesn’t have the extremely lean frame of your typical fast marathoner. Also, people who run that quickly are generally neurotic about their times. Shouldn’t Ryan remember his exactly? “He is too intense and driven to just forget something like that,” one commentator wrote.

Slate and Runner’s World investigated. Questions were raised, given the criticism of Ryan’s honesty in his convention speech. This evening, the terrific running journalist Scott Douglas figured out that Ryan had actually run a 4:01 in the Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota, in 1990, when he was a college student. This is not quite so fast. A 2:55 would have put Ryan in a hundred and thirtieth place, out of the thirty-two hundred and seventy-seven men in that race. A 4:01 put him in nineteen hundred and ninetieth place. It’s the difference between racing and running.

I contacted the campaign this evening about the discrepancy. Ryan, through a spokesman, responded that he’d just mixed things up: “The race was more than 20 years ago, but my brother Tobin—who ran Boston last year—reminds me that he is the owner of the fastest marathon in the family and has never himself ran a sub-three. If I were to do any rounding, it would certainly be to four hours, not three. He gave me a good ribbing over this at dinner tonight.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/08/paul-ryan-marathon.html

You didn't run that.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Lies lies lies lies lies. Sickening from any politician on any side.

 

[trenchfoot]

Lies lies lies lies lies. Sickening from any politician on any side.

For the most part, if most of the Repub politicians and some like-minded Dems had to resort to telling the honest truth about themselves they'd never ever get elected. Ergo, lies lies lies and more lies. What's rather alarming though is the blatant and outright "sincere" way these crooks go about disseminating their outright falsehoods, like we voters are supposed to know that "politics = campaign promises = polishing the truth = spinning the truth = distorting the truth = lying with complete honesty."

 

[OrByte]

No need to resort to implications (unless you're trying mightily spin and attack) when the words/sentences are so straight forward and clear.

I'm guessing the audience actually got the point: Obama's promised recovery didn't happen.

Fern

Im guessing the implications are what make the speech and the speaker so appealing, and that all politicians use the modern english language to imply their point(s) so as to "lead the horse to water" so to speak

That is why we are so accustomed to the words ALLEGED or CLAIMED or CHARGED or IMPLICATED as in everyone's favorite, "sources claimed"

but this is a lie by implication especially without sufficient evidence ESPECIALLY without the nuance required to effectively outline the actual events that led to the closure of the plant both before and after Obama took office.

And the "point" as you put it can be argued as to whether or not true.

The audience could have gotten the point as you say, that the Recovery didn't happen...and as you say, that is definitely arguable. And for that reason I don't think that was the purpose of Ryan bringing up the whole issue as an example. Arguing whether or not Obamas promised recovery did or didnt happen gets no where.

Or

The audience could have linked, by implication, a failed plant with Obama that hurt middle americans (RYans highs school friends no less!) with lost jobs. Taking the abstract "Recovery" and replacing it with a tangible example that imho is tied very loosely to the Obama administration.

Which brings me to a point made earlier. If this economic recovery didnt work, you would think Ryan and Co. would be able to isolate and provide as substantial EVIDENCE of how the Recovery didnt work. If you are going to bring it up in a national speech, at least make sure the facts are in your favor beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I dont see that that happened with Ryan's speech. In this instance and in the other examples plastered all over the internet. He straight up lied in so many areas.

 

[OrByte]

I dont have to go into long, qurky, spinning explanations to show how Ryan lied in his speech. Here are some fun quick examples:

"The first troubling sign came with the stimulus. It was President Obama’s first and best shot at fixing the economy, at a time when he got everything he wanted under one-party rule. It cost $831 billion – the largest one-time expenditure ever by our federal government."

ARRA was not a $831 billion expenditure. As of today, ARRA consists of:
Costs:
Tax benefits 297.8B
Grants,contracts,loans 240.4B
Entitlements 232.3B

arguing that 472.7B is expenditure might be more correct with an additional 297.8B going towards tax credits.

which is actually 770.5B not 831B. (Understanding that 831B is the Authorized dollar for ARRA not actual Delivered dollars) If anything, he could have stated 831B is AUthorized dollars under the Recovery Act.

http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

Here is another:

"It <Stimulus money> went to companies like Solyndra, with their gold-plated connections, subsidized jobs, and make-believe markets. The stimulus was a case of political patronage, corporate welfare, and cronyism at their worst. You, the working men and women of this country, were cut out of the deal."

When he says "You" Im assuming he means private sector, right?

Here is what one private sector company got for ONE project from ARRA funds:

$2,242,617.00 awarded to Granite Construction Company
www.fresno.gov/councildocs/agenda6.18.2009/1a.pdf

That is just one example of many where the private sector got paid out of ARRA money.

one last example of Ryans lies:

"Maybe the greatest waste of all was time. Here we were, faced with a massive job crisis &#8211; so deep that if everyone out of work stood in single file, that unemployment line would stretch the length of the entire American continent. You would think that any president, whatever his party, would make job creation, and nothing else, his first order of economic business.

But this president didn&#8217;t do that. Instead, we got a long, divisive, all-or-nothing attempt to put the federal government in charge of health care."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80423.html#ixzz25EAnnY6M

ARRA was signed into law Feb 17, 2009.
ACA was signed into law March 23, 2010.

I could go on...its like every other statement contained some sort of half truth, implied lie, lie by omission or just flat out lies.

 

[Matt1970]

I dont have to go into long, qurky, spinning explanations to show how Ryan lied in his speech. Here are some fun quick examples:

"The first troubling sign came with the stimulus. It was President Obama’s first and best shot at fixing the economy, at a time when he got everything he wanted under one-party rule. It cost $831 billion – the largest one-time expenditure ever by our federal government."

ARRA was not a $831 billion expenditure. As of today, ARRA consists of:
Costs:
Tax benefits 297.8B
Grants,contracts,loans 240.4B
Entitlements 232.3B

arguing that 472.7B is expenditure might be more correct with an additional 297.8B going towards tax credits.

which is actually 770.5B not 831B. (Understanding that 831B is the Authorized dollar for ARRA not actual Delivered dollars) If anything, 831B is Obligated dollars under the Recovery Act.

http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

Here is another:

"It went to companies like Solyndra, with their gold-plated connections, subsidized jobs, and make-believe markets. The stimulus was a case of political patronage, corporate welfare, and cronyism at their worst. You, the working men and women of this country, were cut out of the deal."

When he says "You" Im assuming he means private sector, right?

Here is what one private sector company got for ONE project from ARRA funds:

$2,242,617.00 awarded to Granite Construction Company
www.fresno.gov/councildocs/agenda6.18.2009/1a.pdf

That is just one example of many where the private sector got paid out of ARRA money.

one last example of Ryans lies:

"Maybe the greatest waste of all was time. Here we were, faced with a massive job crisis – so deep that if everyone out of work stood in single file, that unemployment line would stretch the length of the entire American continent. You would think that any president, whatever his party, would make job creation, and nothing else, his first order of economic business.

But this president didn’t do that. Instead, we got a long, divisive, all-or-nothing attempt to put the federal government in charge of health care."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80423.html#ixzz25EAnnY6M

ARRA was signed into law Feb 17, 2009.
ACA was signed into law March 23, 2010.

I could go on...its like every other statement contained some sort of half truth, implied lie, lie by omission or just flat out lies.

1. "Understanding that 831B is the Authorized dollar for ARRA" - So he is still right.
2. The vast majority of the private sector didn't see a dime of the stimulus.
3. Your time line is retarded. The vast majority of the people were still woried about the economy then, Obama was woried about healthcare.

 

[OrByte]

1. "Understanding that 831B is the Authorized dollar for ARRA" - So he is still right.
2. The vast majority of the private sector didn't see a dime of the stimulus.
3. Your time line is retarded. The vast majority of the people were still woried about the economy then, Obama was woried about healthcare.

no no no my friend

applying the same analysis that Fern used:

analyzing each sentence

This is what you come up with.

lies.

1. expenditures are not authorized money. Ryan said expenditure in his speech. Authorized, Obligated, Expenditure means all separate things.
2. whatever. "Vast majority" means nothing to me.
3. timeline is hard, cold, fact. I don't care what you think people where worried about...that is nebulous.

 

[dmcowen674]

The vast majority of the private sector didn't see a dime of the stimulus.

You don't make a good Hillary Clinton

 

[Matt1970]

no no no my friend

applying the same analysis that Fern used:

analyzing each sentence

This is what you come up with.

lies.

1. expenditures are not authorized money. Ryan said expenditure in his speech. Authorized, Obligated, Expenditure means all separate things.
2. whatever. "Vast majority" means nothing to me.
3. timeline is hard, cold, fact. I don't care what you think people where worried about...that is nebulous.

1. When it is all said and done $831is what it will have cost.
2. I am glad the vast majority of the people mean nothing to you.
3. March 23, 2010 - Unemplyment was 9.8% - Obama's concern was ACA.

 

[Matt1970]

You don't make a good Hillary Clinton

I never will.

 

[OrByte]

1. When it is all said and done $831is what it will have cost.
2. I am glad the vast majority of the people mean nothing to you.
3. March 23, 2010 - Unemplyment was 9.8% - Obama's concern was ACA.

1.his statements his lies
2. stay on topic, like I am
3.youre meandering

 

[OrByte]

I guess I killed this thread.

In march of 2010 the US government was entertaining the idea of ARRA 2....

but the general consensus was that we still needed to see how ARRA 1 worked out...plus...the GOP was blocking every attempt at further stimulus...

ARRA 2 never materialized although plenty of economists figured that the economy could benefit from such government action.

If Ryan is the best that the GOP has to offer

Him being the Budget "Wonk"

then they are in worse shape than I originally thought.

 

[cronos]

Specifically in this instance it was OP. But the issue was brought up by the liberals claiming that ryan lied. Theres evidence proving that Romneys side is telling the truth, and I have seen equally compelling evidence showing that his team is lying through their teeth, in the end it really doesnt matter. We should all just get back to issues that truly can be blamed on one side so we dont have to deal with this BS anymore.

Now you are the one being dishonest. If Ryan didn't bring it up in his speech nobody will discuss this particularly 'stupid and sensationalized' thing anymore, which is what you said you wanted.

 

[shadow9d9]

HAHAHAHA, oh my god you are so stupid its actually cute. Dont you see what the left is doing here? The fact that his statment may or may not be correct is irrelevant to them, they just want to keep distracting you from the REAL issues as much as they can. Think about it, who fucking cares about somthing that happened 4 years ago and has since been taken care of. It was so close to the bush exit and obama entrance that it literally just doesnt matter. Stop giving a shit about stupid sensationalized things like this and get back to the real issues. Like obamas lack of job creation and the economy, or romneys potential lack of taxes for a decade/his offshore accounts that he has to evade further taxes. We have a potential federal criminal about to get (maybe) voted into the whitehouse, and youre here bitching about a plant that got shut down so close to the two terms that you cant decide who to blame.

If you think there is a "left" in this country, then you shouldn't be laughing at others...

 

[shadow9d9]

Liberals are no different, they just believe the exact opposite view and have just as dumb arguments for their stances.

Learn to walk the middle, not left or right.

The democrats are the middle/right... There is one liberal in the senate. When the Democrats use the republican's healthcare bill, don't protest the invasion/occupations of foreign countries, keep in place Bush's policies, etc...you know there is no left.

 

[JKing106]

I never will.

Pity. She's a better man than you'll ever be, and I'm not making fun of her.

 

[shadow9d9]

1. When it is all said and done $831is what it will have cost.
2. I am glad the vast majority of the people mean nothing to you.
3. March 23, 2010 - Unemplyment was 9.8% - Obama's concern was ACA.

3. Republicans destroy the economy and then want the democrats to only do one thing when it is their turn: fix the republican's mistakes. Nothing else. Can't walk and talk at the same time. Just fix the republican screwups. Makes sense actually. Destroy everything so that the other team can't do anything but fix it.

 

[Matt1970]

3. Republicans destroy the economy and then want the democrats to only do one thing when it is their turn: fix the republican's mistakes. Nothing else. Can't walk and talk at the same time. Just fix the republican screwups. Makes sense actually. Destroy everything so that the other team can't do anything but fix it.

The housing market collapse destroyed the economy, but thanks for quoting another MSNBC talking point.

 

[OrByte]

after letting all of this sink in (including the lie about the marathon)

Ryan is waaaay too comfortable with lying.

period.

 

[trenchfoot]

Ly'in Ryan. Hmmmmm. Sounds good.

I don't hate Ryan at all for the lies he's spewing. It's the folks that would rather believe the lies than face the truth about their party's actual agenda for the nation that scares me. Lower taxes for the rich, dregulate so the corporate crooks have an even freer hand at raiding the treasury and have the shrinking middle class pay for it all is what's in store because it's exactly what happened under Bush/Cheney.

And all those middle class Repubs who got severely affected by those debilitating Bush/Cheney policies are going to conveniently forget about it out of party loyalty AND want more of the same?

WTH?