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Russian oligarch sent $500,000 to Michael Cohen

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We the people probably have 1% or less of the info Mueller has. We can't follow the money...yet. He likely can, and knows whether Trump is connected. People just have to be patient and hope he isn't fired and that his findings are actually made public (which is up to Congress, unfortunately). Pence saying it's time for this to be wound up "for the good of the country"--were you saying the same thing about Whitewater, Mike? So far Mueller has been moving much faster than past investigators...which Pence knows certainly well. He's just playing to his ignorant base.
 
hal2kilo said:
Yea, he sucks. He was only like 99.4% correct.
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Never, ever participate in law. How correct he is has nothing to do with any of this, it has to do with manipulating the jury to make the prosecution look like it's attempting to malign and that has real potential to influence a jury towards a more sympathetic view of the accused. If you think that justice consists of throwing the prosecution's case on one side of the scales and the defense's contentions on the other it all weigh out objectively to provide an answer? Well it's not so.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Sometimes I play the "Who is the equivalent in history" game. I really don't have a good answer for Trump. He's worse than Nixon but not allowed to be a dictator. Pence? A malign Gerry Ford perhaps.
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I'm not the first to say it by a long shot but Trump is most like Berlusconi to me. Mob linked, egregiously corrupt, and (most likely) a criminal. I think Trump's personality is considerably more malignant than Berlusconi's however and while you're right he's not allowed to be a dictator right now Trump shows extremely dangerous impulses in that direction that we need to guard against.

But I think I have Nunes pegged- Vidkun Quisling
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If this nonsense with Trump turns out to be as bad as I feel it will Nunes will go down in history in a very bad way. His response to learning that a hostile foreign power attacked our election in order to install their preferred candidate as president has been to undermine federal law enforcement trying to get to the bottom of it. And how's he been doing that undermining? Through egregious, transparent lies.

If the Democrats can take the House he will at least lose his chairmanship that he's using to do so much damage to our country but really he needs to lose his seat. He can't be prosecuted for his actions even though he deserves to be, but we can at give him the boot. (after which I'm sure some right wing group will pick him up for a comfortable salary)
 
fskimospy said:
I'm not the first to say it by a long shot but Trump is most like Berlusconi to me. Mob linked, egregiously corrupt, and (most likely) a criminal. I think Trump's personality is considerably more malignant than Berlusconi's however and while you're right he's not allowed to be a dictator right now Trump shows extremely dangerous impulses in that direction that we need to guard against.



If this nonsense with Trump turns out to be as bad as I feel it will Nunes will go down in history in a very bad way. His response to learning that a hostile foreign power attacked our election in order to install their preferred candidate as president has been to undermine federal law enforcement trying to get to the bottom of it. And how's he been doing that undermining? Through egregious, transparent lies.

If the Democrats can take the House he will at least lose his chairmanship that he's using to do so much damage to our country but really he needs to lose his seat. He can't be prosecuted for his actions even though he deserves to be, but we can at give him the boot. (after which I'm sure some right wing group will pick him up for a comfortable salary)
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One thing the Democrats had better not do is pull the same stunt as done with the Iraq War. If there is criminality it needs to be prosecuted. You have no idea how pissed off that the Dems swept Iraq under the rug after Bush was out. There was no serious attempt at accountability.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
One thing the Democrats had better not do is pull the same stunt as done with the Iraq War. If there is criminality it needs to be prosecuted. You have no idea how pissed off that the Dems swept Iraq under the rug after Bush was out. There was no serious attempt at accountability.
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That's a tough one generally as criminalizing the actions of previous administrations is something that usually happens in dictatorships/banana republics. I get what you're saying but it's a very, very dangerous precedent to put in place and it needs to be reserved for the most egregious offenders. I think it's clear that Bush and company (Cheney in particular) lied us into a war but I don't think we could prove it well enough to imprison them for it.

This may sound callous but I view what Trump is doing to be in the most important ways worse than what Bush is doing. Bush got a lot of people killed but they were mostly Iraqis and sadly that's pretty standard practice for US administrations. This is horrifying from a moral sense of course but what Trump is doing is threatening our entire way of life and system of government. Long term that's a much more dangerous thing and it's something we should police much more strongly. I'm not trying to downplay the human horror that Bush unleashed, I just view it as less of an existential threat.

I sincerely, sincerely doubt Trump will ever see a single day inside a jail cell and that's probably true for his family as well. If what looks likely to be true ends up being true though we need to try.
 
Jhhnn said:
The whole thing could easily be Cohen just running his own hustle. It's funny how such an honest guy as Trump has surrounded himself with scumbags of all sorts, isn't it?
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That's about the most viable defense Trump has to this current mess-assuming that Mueller doesn't already have evidence of Cohen funneling some or all of the proceeds to Trump, one of his companies or his family. A con man having a con pulled on him, though-Trump will have to swallow his pride to admit that.

It's heartening to me that all three of the companies involved have stated they were interviewed by Mueller's investigators back in November. He has some A team money laundering case specialists in his team so if there is something here it will be found out.

If Nunes or some other bozo does start a congressional investigation now, it will be to find out how Stormy Daniels' attorney got his hands on this information.

Who would have ever thought such a tawdry and basically trivial matter would have exploded into so much substance?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
After the dust settled overnight I think Avenatti needs to dial back the aggression for the sake of his client. Reports state that Mikey was so gung-ho he didn't properly review his sources and just threw everything the could find at Michael Cohen, including things he wasn't responsible. This can change Avenatti from being seen as a sharp attorney to a vindictive SOB by such actions. Any defense is going to seize on this and a pattern of this type of action will likely play well for Cohen.
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Avenatti/Stormy see a life changing opportunity and they went for it, I don't think they care about the out come of the case much. At best they will be viewed as hero, Avenatti go big into politic, Stormy wash her name as a porno star. At worst they pocket millions.
 
Denly said:
Avenatti/Stormy see a life changing opportunity and they went for it, I don't think they care about the out come of the case much. At best they will be viewed as hero, Avenatti go big into politic, Stormy wash her name as a porno star. At worst they pocket millions.
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I think Avenatti and Stormy did the right thing and aggression is fine, but they need to not provide opportunities for the defense. The list isn't a problem for me, it's the lack of due diligence to make sure all points are accurate. Someone didn't bother and that sort of thing can come back and bit hard. One occurrence? Likely not fatal, but repeats bring in doubt as far as Avenatti goes which is why I said he needs to step back a bit and make sure there are no weaknesses in his claims.
 
fskimospy said:
That's a tough one generally as criminalizing the actions of previous administrations is something that usually happens in dictatorships/banana republics.
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I agree with what you said but I'm not sure you understood what I meant. What I consistently called for was a serious and substantial investigation to determine why, precisely, we wound up in Iraq. It could have been many things and probably a combination thereof. What was honest error, what was malicious intent, what was presented that were wholly untrue- The people who were injured and died deserve some closure by disclosing the truth. Criminalizing these actions after the fact? Nope, but was there criminality involved in the process leading up to the war? Were funds illegally sent to others to spin a narrative? In that case then yes, a prosecution is the only way to make sure a Trump doesn't do the same, or any other President. A message of "I can do anything, legal or illegal and not be held accountable without loss of liberty for my crimes".
That didn't sit well.

fskimospy said:
This may sound callous but I view what Trump is doing to be in the most important ways worse than what Bush is doing.
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The war and Trump stand as wrongs which are separate but wrongs in any event. We waged a war in Iraq and besides the people involved in combat only the irrelevant lives in Iraq were impacted. I say irrelevant because the majority of us didn't have to change a thing. Get up, go to work, fill up the Yukon and party.
People didn't give a shit in the main. Trump? He's another matter because his particular pox upon the land isn't restricted to a few here, it's a lasting impact for the many. The war has gone unintentionally addressed.

fskimospy said:
I sincerely, sincerely doubt Trump will ever see a single day inside a jail cell and that's probably true for his family as well. If what looks likely to be true ends up being true though we need to try.
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Considering how Iraq went I suspect that any criminal actions at the federal level will be forgiven along with pats on backs about how the system worked. Letting criminals who intentionally harm the US in the process of "business as usual" is not a working system. Well for Trump it would.

It comes back to whether Dems have balls if Trump has committed crimes. That remains to be seen.
 
HomerJS said:
That's a downgrade for him but should ask Michelle if she wants the job
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The implication in that string of comments being that the Dems would be appointing a Speaker that becomes the next POTUS. ...I wonder if that is one way for a former 2-term POTUS to slip into a 2nd term, having not being elected?
 
zinfamous said:
The implication in that string of comments being that the Dems would be appointing a Speaker that becomes the next POTUS. ...I wonder if that is one way for a former 2-term POTUS to slip into a 2nd term, having not being elected?
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I don't think anything is preventing it, but I think generally speaking we'd want to avoid that particular precedent.
 
Every time I see Avenatti on TV (which is incredibly frequent) two related thoughts pop to mind: (1) it's about time a Roy Cohn type fought against Trump instead of being his mentor and (2) I'm sure every time Trump sees him his blood pressure ticks up a few notches for the same reason. Win-Win.

And the 22nd Amendment is quite clear, no way to back door a third term for Obama that way. We need to develop new and quality candidates.
 
Thump553 said:
Every time I see Avenatti on TV (which is incredibly frequent) two related thoughts pop to mind: (1) it's about time a Roy Cohn type fought against Trump instead of being his mentor and (2) I'm sure every time Trump sees him his blood pressure ticks up a few notches for the same reason. Win-Win.

And the 22nd Amendment is quite clear, no way to back door a third term for Obama that way. We need to develop new and quality candidates.
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I've heard that they've had to replace a TV or 2 in the White House.
 
Thump553 said:
Every time I see Avenatti on TV (which is incredibly frequent) two related thoughts pop to mind: (1) it's about time a Roy Cohn type fought against Trump instead of being his mentor and (2) I'm sure every time Trump sees him his blood pressure ticks up a few notches for the same reason. Win-Win.

And the 22nd Amendment is quite clear, no way to back door a third term for Obama that way. We need to develop new and quality candidates.
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Even though MA is a little over-exposed I'm enjoying him give it to Trump using Trump's own tactics. Only difference MA's attacks are based in truth unlike that racist bullshit Trump peddled for years.
 
HomerJS said:
Even though MA is a little over-exposed I'm enjoying him give it to Trump using Trump's own tactics. Only difference MA's attacks are based in truth unlike that racist bullshit Trump peddled for years.
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He really seems to be carrying this way beyond the Stormy Daniel deal. I don't know if he's well healed (supposedly settled the largest fraud case in California history) and I pray that there isn't someone secretly funding this. But, I really think he's got a bulls eye on Trump. It would be great if his efforts were just a effective as Mueller's in getting this stain on America out of office.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
One thing the Democrats had better not do is pull the same stunt as done with the Iraq War. If there is criminality it needs to be prosecuted. You have no idea how pissed off that the Dems swept Iraq under the rug after Bush was out. There was no serious attempt at accountability.
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There was the small matter of staring into an economic abyss. There were also troops in the field.

I don't think Michael Cohen had anything to do with it.
 
Thebobo said:
Watched Rachel last night explain it all, she did a great job with the different excuses the company's put out as the day progressed, priceless. If you didn't see it you should. It's the first part of the show.

Just audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvHQFRdBCl0

Full video here http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/rachel-maddow-5-9-18-episode
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Yea, great show, how the hell does a Korean airplane Mfgr shoot $150K to Essential consulant's and use the excuse "international accounting standards"?, Jesus, the excuses given by these Co's are truly pathetic.
 
Jhhnn said:
There was the small matter of staring into an economic abyss. There were also troops in the field.

I don't think Michael Cohen had anything to do with it.
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So what will the excuse be for not following up on Trump?

What will your escuse for them be?
 
brycejones said:
OMG the howling from the right if Michelle O was in office would be absolutely epic. These are same ass hats who spent time criticizing her arms.
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Would be epic schadenfreude. MO would be qualified for the job but truth be told I would be against it.

I want to steer cleat of the dynastic paradigm. Permanent power too many times goes horribly wrong.

Methinks they can do more good outside that swamp.
 
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