repoman0
Diamond Member
- Jun 17, 2010
- 5,191
- 4,570
- 136
I suppose it's not worth pointing out yet again that by your standards described in this post, Trump is immediately disqualified the presidency in about fifty ways. It's not worth arguing about this anymore though, America and its people are too far gone. You have immediately proved the OPs point without critically thinking about what he said for five seconds. I think you and people like you have completely lost your ability to think critically and perhaps never had that ability in the first place. Dumbed down and simple is the new normal and real intellectual discussion is now impossible.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
- 144
- 106
you are peddling conspiracy theories. And boy are you out there on the fringe!
Basically, I don't think this thread (or any other thread in AT P&N) pertains to you and your low level of thinking.
American recognizes that Russia got involved on the 2016 Presidential election by hacking campaign data.
Also, Hillary has not been charged or found guilty of any corruption related to her work as SoS.
Bernie did not have any election stolen from him.
That's fair! I agree, it is absolutely baffling to me that people have responded to an attack on the foundation of our country and system of government by immediately descending into attacks on their domestic enemies. It's like they think people of an opposing US political party are a greater threat than a hostile foreign power. As I said before this is a sign to me of a deep intellectual and moral rot.
HamburgerBoy
Lifer
- Apr 12, 2004
- 27,111
- 318
- 126
He's doing something right now isn't he? You would have been happy if he made it extremely political while the campaign was still on-going?
qliveur
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2007
- 4,090
- 74
- 91
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
Ahem. http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politics/hillary-clinton-electoral-college-electors/index.html That moral high ground is being used solely for another avenue to overturn the election results.
In yet another amazing coincidence, neither of the Clintons experienced any such reaction when it was Red China illegally donating millions to elect Bill. Yet when it's their dirty laundry being aired, suddenly it's an attack on democracy itself.
That's not overturning the election results, as the election that matters hasn't happened yet. That's how the electoral college works. You can't simultaneously endorse the parts of the electoral college that work in your favor and then denounce the parts that don't as an attempt to overturn an election. Gotta pick one, brotha.
There's quite a lot of disagreement on whether or not China donated money to elect Clinton with proof either way. Republicans claimed they did, Democrats claimed they didn't. I am completely unsurprised at which side you happened to believe.
Can't wait until Trump invites him to the White House!
Last edited:
t me get this straight: To the notion:
When parties respond to each other, even seeing it as an opportunity to discredit each other, we are taking responsibility for Russia's attack. I don't think they could have set it up any better.
The new track you wanted to take, we have:
1. The question thrown back in your face....... Post 2
2. A questioning of what 'you people means' pointing out that one or both of you are engaged in projecting negative feelings....... post 3
3. Tentative answer as to what to do with assumed faith in the current administration that they would act on that as the aim. Post 4
More support for an objective look in post 7
4. A rejection of part of your thesis regarding mutual discredit, (and by, in my opinion at least, an extremely rational poster whose point I would need to consider had I made it.)
5. A character attack on your frustration level, one I will also occasionally point out to a pster as a indicative of a background negative attitude that may be coloring posters point of view., but an attack that ignored the reference to your wanting to tackle a different perspective. Post 6 More attacks on starting a new thread in post 8
6. Some back and forth on an additional misdirect started in post 8. Posts 9-12
7. What appears to be an agreement with your thesis couched in terms of the hopelessness of the situation. Post 13.
8. A demand for and responses the question of evidence, proof that the issue you have is real and that we should care.
----------------
My assumption is that what you wanted to do was to direct attention to how partisanship in America is destroying our ability to defend ourselves against enemy manipulation and the fact that we are so ready to attack each other, have so much hostility within our own country for each other that we make it very easy for foreign enemies to manipulate and destroy us from within.
As far as I am concerned this race to self destruction is a manifestation of the conservative brain defect, a will to win at any cost because the conservative brain absolutely believes the morality it conceives is the highest and best there is. Whatever they do, whatever they have to sacrifice to win is morally justified.
My own viewpoint, I guess then, is that all Americans can be blamed for allowing moral fanatics to win. Only the liberal left has the kind of brains that are comfortable with moral ambiguity and can tolerate states of uncertainty required for objective analysis of the kind you wish to address in this thread, in my opinion.
So the question, then, that I would seek answer to is how do you disabuse people of their moral certainty. I believe it is rooted in fear. I believe fear is an unpleasant emotion to experience, actually that it isn't an emotion at all, but the suppression of all feeling, emotional restriction to the point of psychic death, refusal to face the terrors of our past.
I believe further there is no hope at all for humanity in the abstract, that the answers you seek are to deal with our own personal demons. The opposite of fear is love and to love is all their is.
By the way, Obama is addressing the question on my TV right this minute.
When parties respond to each other, even seeing it as an opportunity to discredit each other, we are taking responsibility for Russia's attack. I don't think they could have set it up any better.
The new track you wanted to take, we have:
1. The question thrown back in your face....... Post 2
2. A questioning of what 'you people means' pointing out that one or both of you are engaged in projecting negative feelings....... post 3
3. Tentative answer as to what to do with assumed faith in the current administration that they would act on that as the aim. Post 4
More support for an objective look in post 7
4. A rejection of part of your thesis regarding mutual discredit, (and by, in my opinion at least, an extremely rational poster whose point I would need to consider had I made it.)
5. A character attack on your frustration level, one I will also occasionally point out to a pster as a indicative of a background negative attitude that may be coloring posters point of view., but an attack that ignored the reference to your wanting to tackle a different perspective. Post 6 More attacks on starting a new thread in post 8
6. Some back and forth on an additional misdirect started in post 8. Posts 9-12
7. What appears to be an agreement with your thesis couched in terms of the hopelessness of the situation. Post 13.
8. A demand for and responses the question of evidence, proof that the issue you have is real and that we should care.
----------------
My assumption is that what you wanted to do was to direct attention to how partisanship in America is destroying our ability to defend ourselves against enemy manipulation and the fact that we are so ready to attack each other, have so much hostility within our own country for each other that we make it very easy for foreign enemies to manipulate and destroy us from within.
As far as I am concerned this race to self destruction is a manifestation of the conservative brain defect, a will to win at any cost because the conservative brain absolutely believes the morality it conceives is the highest and best there is. Whatever they do, whatever they have to sacrifice to win is morally justified.
My own viewpoint, I guess then, is that all Americans can be blamed for allowing moral fanatics to win. Only the liberal left has the kind of brains that are comfortable with moral ambiguity and can tolerate states of uncertainty required for objective analysis of the kind you wish to address in this thread, in my opinion.
So the question, then, that I would seek answer to is how do you disabuse people of their moral certainty. I believe it is rooted in fear. I believe fear is an unpleasant emotion to experience, actually that it isn't an emotion at all, but the suppression of all feeling, emotional restriction to the point of psychic death, refusal to face the terrors of our past.
I believe further there is no hope at all for humanity in the abstract, that the answers you seek are to deal with our own personal demons. The opposite of fear is love and to love is all their is.
By the way, Obama is addressing the question on my TV right this minute.
Sadly I don't have access to TV right now. Maybe Obama's last days in office will be quite meaningful.
Thank you for providing more evidence of the attack's efficacy by summarizing the behaviors of posters in this thread.
Separately, to your specific point, I'm not sure if I agree with your analysis, but there is only one part of it that I think which is important: we are swirling with emotions (e.g. fear) which we are restricted in channeling them where they belong in a productive way that doesn't make us feel too vulnerable. But we simply can't deny these emotions exist, so we channel them to places where we feel less vulnerable.
Russia overtly being our enemy is scary as hell and could be terrifying for the world. But, damn, if they deserve it...
interchange: Sadly I don't have access to TV right now. Maybe Obama's last days in office will be quite meaningful.
M: I was very surprised to find that he said pretty much exactly what I said and in part what you said, that partisan fear has risen to a level above a rational fear of ones real enemies.
i: Thank you for providing more evidence of the attack's efficacy by summarizing the behaviors of posters in this thread.
M: I believe your warnings are valid.
i: Separately, to your specific point, I'm not sure if I agree with your analysis, but there is only one part of it that I think which is important: we are swirling with emotions (e.g. fear) which we are restricted in channeling them where they belong in a productive way that doesn't make us feel too vulnerable. But we simply can't deny these emotions exist, so we channel them to places where we feel less vulnerable.
M: Personally, I believe there is a way to handle them, feeling them in a therapeutic setting, but they will never be comfortable to get into, It will feel like dying because one will remember ones psychic death. I would, however welcome a criticism of what I said, what you aren't sure you agree with, with the proviso, of course, that as you say, humans are funny creatures who believe they are right and tend to believe it regardless of how others may differ, I say that because I always have one eye on whether there may be unconscious feelings driving me which I would naturally be motivated not to see.
i: Russia overtly being our enemy is scary as hell and could be terrifying for the world. But, damn, if they deserve it...
M: I don't know what you mean by damn if they deserve it. Are you saying they are not our enemy but one we unjustly created? I got the feeling earlier that you saw them as a threat that is using our weakness against us. That's not very nice which tells me they deserve something. I can't say what exactly.
M: I was very surprised to find that he said pretty much exactly what I said and in part what you said, that partisan fear has risen to a level above a rational fear of ones real enemies.
i: Thank you for providing more evidence of the attack's efficacy by summarizing the behaviors of posters in this thread.
M: I believe your warnings are valid.
i: Separately, to your specific point, I'm not sure if I agree with your analysis, but there is only one part of it that I think which is important: we are swirling with emotions (e.g. fear) which we are restricted in channeling them where they belong in a productive way that doesn't make us feel too vulnerable. But we simply can't deny these emotions exist, so we channel them to places where we feel less vulnerable.
M: Personally, I believe there is a way to handle them, feeling them in a therapeutic setting, but they will never be comfortable to get into, It will feel like dying because one will remember ones psychic death. I would, however welcome a criticism of what I said, what you aren't sure you agree with, with the proviso, of course, that as you say, humans are funny creatures who believe they are right and tend to believe it regardless of how others may differ, I say that because I always have one eye on whether there may be unconscious feelings driving me which I would naturally be motivated not to see.
i: Russia overtly being our enemy is scary as hell and could be terrifying for the world. But, damn, if they deserve it...
M: I don't know what you mean by damn if they deserve it. Are you saying they are not our enemy but one we unjustly created? I got the feeling earlier that you saw them as a threat that is using our weakness against us. That's not very nice which tells me they deserve something. I can't say what exactly.
MajinCry
Platinum Member
- Jul 28, 2015
- 2,495
- 571
- 136
Great, let's have two world powers wage war with each other. That couldn't possibly end badly. Nope. No sir. No siree bob.
Curiously, with America having overthrown countless democracies, when will the US wage war against itself?
Curiously, with America having overthrown countless democracies, when will the US wage war against itself?
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,197
- 126
Russia will use Trump to pit US against China, and have its two main geopolitical rivals fight it out, even if just economically. It's pretty smart by them and is already working pretty well before their guy is even sworn in.
It's almost as if you didn't read the sentence directly after calling it an act of war.
MajinCry
Platinum Member
- Jul 28, 2015
- 2,495
- 571
- 136
This is an act of war, an act of aggression. Now I'm not saying we should wage war against them, but they made an act of war, and we, as Americans, should respond, dig?
*Wink wink nudge nudge*
I think that this kind of electronic intrusion goes on all the time between rival govts. It's what the NSA does & what intelligence agencies all over the world do.
The difference is in the public disclosure, who asked for it & who spun it to achieve electoral victory.
Russia's actions are one thing. Shameless exploitation & distortion of the information released for political advantage is entirely another.
The Russians obviously believed that would be the result of their efforts & Repubs didn't disappoint them, either. They did what Putin wanted, attacked the integrity of the Dems & revealed a lack of it on their part at the same time. We'll see that writ very large over the next 4 years.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,197
- 126
How is it an act of war? Americans believed what they wanted to believe and voted how they wanted to vote.
Russia has been involved in US politics since there was a US, and all of the sudden, it's an act of war?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_American_Revolution
Russia has been involved in US politics since there was a US, and all of the sudden, it's an act of war?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_American_Revolution
Uhm. Are you equating a political stance and political negotiation to a covert criminal act? That is patently ridiculous.
There will be no intel briefing for electors. I doubt many, if any have security clearances anyway.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/no-intel-briefing-for-electors-dni-says/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/no-intel-briefing-for-electors-dni-says/index.html
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter