Russia ready to normalize relations with the US

[norseamd]

You exaggerate. The kleptocracy of Russian oligarchs is the model capitalists everywhere want to follow. Letting them hook up with our own financial elite means even greater concentration of economic power at the tippy top.

Authoritarianism isn't the big issue at the international level but rather economics & leadership. The Chinese live in a fairly authoritarian society and haven't been as well off in the last few hundred years. Their govt cares about that. The oligarchs of the world, including our own, don't give a damn about it.

Syria & Yemen aren't the really big issue, anyway. Ukraine is. In 24 years of independence they've had even shittier govt that their Russian cousins. Looted, and looted again by the conflict in the Donbass. The West played them for chumps in the great game against Russia. We lost, but tried to salvage what we could from sanctions much at their expense.

They won't get Crimea back no matter what. They might get back the industrial heart of the Donbass if they quit listening to us & cut their best deal with Putin, declare themselves to be forever Neutral like Finland. In order to do that, they need to get their own house in order & deal with the Right Front appropriately. Not likely.

Russia wont accept forever neutral Ukraine. And its more than just Ukraine. If you havent seen the forest for the trees, which you probably have, then you really need to take a more thorough look, its not pretty, with a strong US backing it up it was seeming fairly safe.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I am. If Trump goes on with his word to disband nato and not defend his baltic allies, you will start hearing of "persecuted" Russian minority revolting, or being liberated by green men all across the baltic sea pretty soon. Of course this is not the problem of USA, but would still kind of suck to be occupied by Russia for the third time in a row... Not to mention living under such a corrupt regime, which does not have much to offer. Why can't Sweden, or Germany, or USA occupy us for a change?

Considering that Republicans are strong supporters of military might it does not seem likely that bailing on NATO will be happening any time soon. Remember that Trump has the mouth but Congress has the dollars. I don't think there's much popular sentiment to abandon the world to Putin.

 

[norseamd]

Which neighboring land with Russia annex next?

They currently have officially annexed Crimea, and have unofficial de facto annexations of Donbass in Ukraine, Transnitsia in Moldova, and Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia.

Thats not counting the hundreds of other nations and cultures they have assaulted and oppressed over the last few hundred years, and that they still very much occupy.

 

[norseamd]

Considering that Republicans are strong supporters of military might it does not seem likely that bailing on NATO will be happening any time soon. Remember that Trump has the mouth but Congress has the dollars. I don't think there's much popular sentiment to abandon the world to Putin.

The strategic and security community is anything but in love with Trump. People act like the DOD and military services dont have hundreds of thousands of civilians working for them. The higher up bureaucrats arent elected for obvious, very thoughtful reasons.

 

[theeedude]

Considering that Republicans are strong supporters of military might it does not seem likely that bailing on NATO will be happening any time soon. Remember that Trump has the mouth but Congress has the dollars. I don't think there's much popular sentiment to abandon the world to Putin.

Ultimately it's President Trump making decisions to confront Putin or make a deal that acknowledges Putin's "spheres of influence", not Congressional GOP or popular sentiment.

 

[norseamd]

Ultimately it's President Trump making decisions to confront Putin or make a deal that acknowledges Putin's "spheres of influence", not Congressional GOP or popular sentiment.

Thats also very true, but Trump cant just back out of NATO, nor decide to ignore Article V, and thus he cant recognize any Russian spheres of influence inside NATO.

 

[dank69]

Cassanova, please believe me when I tell you you are a gullible fucking retard. Herrr durr I'm so surprised that Putin wants to cooperate with Trump, derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Please. Go do something else you fucking moron.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ultimately it's President Trump making decisions to confront Putin or make a deal that acknowledges Putin's "spheres of influence", not Congressional GOP or popular sentiment.

He can confront or not however he does not have all power to do all things. Congress will support NATO. Obama and Bush eroded the other two branches authority with executive actions unrelated to legislation, because "they had no choice" and so he may make things more difficult, but no President owns us completely.

 

[werepossum]

LOL, I already had a reply written out, but you just confirmed it more than 110%. So eloquently spoken, yet so entirely purposely ignorant. "Gupta's Law of Convenient Anomalies"

Youre an Ormstunga if there ever was one.

lol So Trump getting elected would lead to a war with Russia, and now that Trump has been elected and Russia proposes normalizing our relationship (like Hillary promised to do but flubbed) that just means there will be a war elsewhere. Gotcha.

As always, it's turtles all the way down.

Which neighboring land with Russia annex next?

And the neighboring lands Russia has already annexed were Trump's fault and not Obama's/Clinton's because . . . ?

 

[UglyCasanova]

edit: weird my posts are all jumbled up

European nations have been underfunding NATO. I don't believe Trump wants to abandon it, but he does want the other nations to contribute their fair share and not just freeload off of US taxpayers. If they are unwilling to do that, to hell with them.

You can yapper all you want, it isnt going to cover up your petty attempts at rhetoric, nor is it going to pump up that riposte that you just had to throw in at the end.

And you can speak with an air of superiority but that doesn't mean that you've offered anything of substance to the thread. Why do you think a hostile stance toward Russia is a good thing? Why is improved diplomatic relations with Russia a bad thing? I get it, I'm an idiot, but since you're calling me that at least explain why.

 

[jackstar7]

And the neighboring lands Russia has already annexed were Trump's fault and not Obama's/Clinton's because . . . ?

Man... if only I said that...

 

[TechBoyJK]

If I've learned anything in this thread, it's that norseamd's trying too hard to look like the smart guy. Holy unnecessary condescending remarks batman! Something's wrong with his ego.

 

[UglyCasanova]

If I've learned anything in this thread, it's that norseamd's trying too hard to look like the smart guy. Holy unnecessary condescending remarks batman! Something's wrong with his ego.

And his attitude reflects one that is present in much of the left in general that drove people away during the election. Watching the NBC feed last night the commentators all touched on that. People only take so much derision and condescending attitudes from others before they look elsewhere.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

South Ossetia in Georgia.

Georgia started that one.

Thats not counting the hundreds of other nations and cultures they have assaulted and oppressed over the last few hundred years, and that they still very much occupy.

That's every large empire ever bro, including us (see: the natives).

 

[JSt0rm]

Georgia started that one.



That's every large empire ever bro, including us (see: the natives).

Bush was pushing them forward. That was a hilarious bumble of the geedub.

 

[Jhhnn]

Georgia started that one.



That's every large empire ever bro, including us (see: the natives).

No more than Ukraine started the whole thing with Russia. They bot made noises about joining Nato. Ukraine also overthrew their duly elected govt friendly to Russia & fell into disarray. Crimea never was Ukrainian but rathe Russian & has strategic importance to Russia so they took it w/o firing a shot. The people who live there were probably glad that they did. Action in the Donbass occurred because Ukraine turned stupid about it & still are.

 

[JSt0rm]

I still cant get it out of my head that russia puppet mastered us to get trump elected and now boom ready to normalize.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I still cant get it out of my head that russia puppet mastered us to get trump elected and now boom ready to normalize.

In your opinion the Wikileaks emails/speech transcripts were originally acquired by Russia?

The Guccifer DNC leaks may have been (or maybe not) but as far as I know that was the only possible Russian connection.

The leaks gave the voting public insight into who we were voting for. Is that a bad thing? Would we be better off not knowing what was in Hillarys speeches? Better of not knowing about the Suoer PAC collusion? Media collusion? About the DNC and Hillary working together to prevent Sanders from being nominated? That she was given the debate questions beforehand? I think these are all relevant things for a voter to know, if it was the Russians I guess we should thank them for introducing a bit of transparency into the democratic ticket no?

 

[JSt0rm]

Nothing that was released can be validated by a third party source that isn't a foreign power that has been our traditional enemy for 70 years. I don't know if that stuff is legit or not but all of that stuff would get destroyed by a lawyer in court.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Nothing that was released can be validated by a third party source that isn't a foreign power that has been our traditional enemy for 70 years. I don't know if that stuff is legit or not but all of that stuff would get destroyed by a lawyer in court.

They are all validated via DKIM.

 

[yllus]

Considering that Republicans are strong supporters of military might it does not seem likely that bailing on NATO will be happening any time soon. Remember that Trump has the mouth but Congress has the dollars. I don't think there's much popular sentiment to abandon the world to Putin.

I don't agree. The Republican party leadership isn't exactly wowing us with their gumption to stand up to Trump for their ideas. And I think the thinking of Trump voters if Estonia gets invaded will be, "We created NATO to keep the Soviets out of New York and Miami and Boston, not to defend Estonia."

I can see a 'test' invasion happening next year.

 

[JSt0rm]

They are all validated via DKIM.

what is dkim?

 

[UglyCasanova]

what is dkim?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail

 

[JSt0rm]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail

Im dont really know much about that but if the header of the email was fine but you changed the content of the email slightly who would know?

 

[JSt0rm]

you being a .mil black ops russian hacker group.