Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
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kage69 said:
You can still get killed by armor trying to do it though, regardless of what you're holding. It's not so much the change in infantry weapons, top attack and tandem charges have been around awhile. It's really the use of drones. Hard to stop the high alt drones from killing you, that's when you even know where they are. Drones are going to chase armor off the battlefield, eventually they will chase infantry off as well. At some point submarines will become obsolete, they will simply run out of places to hide, with million dollar submersible drones hounding and swarming multi billion dollar boomers.

Drones aren't just game changers, they are turning into history and world changers. This is why I was all for the Marines getting rid of their tanks. We have to stay ahead of the painful learning curves.
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Not so sure about the sub part. The ocean is really, really big and sonar small enough to fit on a bunch of drones isn't going to have very long range.

I'll be interested to read how many of the kills are coming from infantry and how many from drones or other sources....someday when this is all over.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
fskimospy said:
Yeah I think if anything this shows how vulnerable armor has become to modern infantry weapons. Imagine if Ukraine had air superiority like NATO would likely have on top of this, combined with better trained, better supported troops. It would be an unmitigated slaughter.
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Begs the question, what's next? Trench Warfare again, no war being winnable, or just fast and light infantry.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,965
46,482
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fskimospy said:
Not so sure about the sub part. The ocean is really, really big and sonar small enough to fit on a bunch of drones isn't going to have very long range.
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"Economies of scale" and all that. Passive sonar and processing on par with what subs have wouldn't be needed on all drones, they will link with detection nets, glide sensors, GPS, flying drones, sonobouys, everything. Some will just be active sonar "herders", many will use suicide tactics instead of weapons. Underwater drones will vary in size from a lightweight torpedo to something tens of meters long. The Russians have less silicon know how than we do, and they have put drones into artillery rounds. I'm not too worried about space constraints.

That will probably be the last domain/vehicle that yields to drones, but it will happen. Subs are expensive and just like with aircraft, humans are the weak link in a lot of ways. It's why the F-22 has software to prevent the pilots from inadvertently killing themselves with brain breaking maneuvers. The ocean is a big place, and it tends to get bigger for those who can go deeper. Drones will be able to go deeper than what they hunt, as we humans are relatively trapped near the surface.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,273
16,493
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Zorba said:
Begs the question, what's next? Trench Warfare again, no war being winnable, or just fast and light infantry.
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Very expensive drone v drone warfare, probably AI controlled. Very limited human life cost, biggest pockets wins.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,965
46,482
136
Zorba said:
Begs the question, what's next? Trench Warfare again, no war being winnable, or just fast and light infantry.
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Urban and underground is what they're saying. Open environments will be too easy to contest with asymmetric means.
 
IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,441
33,031
136
adamsleath said:
For actual people there. I'd imagine there is a choice. To fight and die . To deal with the situation peacefully. Or up and leave as a refugee/ migrant.
Escalating the Guerilla war fronts within Ukraine means more casualties.
The propaganda is meaningless when you're dead.
If you're going to be a pawn of militarised actors you better be sure you're going to win. And in such a case many people will die. Honours and medals mean nothing to the dead.
I'm not a fighter. I'd leave the conflict zone or deal peacefully with the aggressors. Just being honest. Without adequate backing you're signing up to be a corpse.

==
the real winners are the arms dealers, manufacturers etc and tinpot politicians making bank while others die in conflicts.
russia also has a military industrial complex. something superpowers have in common. :rolleyes:
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Ukrainians know that peace can't save them. The Russians committed genocide against Ukrainians before and there is no reason to think they wouldn't do so again. Fight and die or die anyway.
 
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adamsleath

Member
May 4, 2007
118
40
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ukraine are outgunned. they'll lose.

simple as that. their airforce will be smashed and russia can bombard the hell out of any resistance.

but perhaps 'they' merely want a protracted guerilla war. no idea.
=====
"or die anyway"

And die anyway. enjoy the spectacle, and make some pocket change for the military complexes.

re-ramp up the oil shale prod. in the u.s. once the stockpile falls.
i'm done see you in 5-10 (years) :)
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,617
30,142
136
IronWing said:
Ukrainians know that peace can't save them. The Russians committed genocide against Ukrainians before and there is no reason to think they wouldn't do so again. Fight and die or die anyway.
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Collectivization didn't go well for Ukraine under Stalin.
 
Homerboy

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,890
5,001
126
adamsleath said:
ukraine are outgunned. they'll lose.

simple as that. their airforce will be smashed and russia can bombard the hell out of any resistance.

but perhaps 'they' merely want a protracted guerilla war. no idea.
=====
"or die anyway"

And die anyway. enjoy the spectacle, and make some pocket change for the military complexes.

re-ramp up the oil shale prod. in the u.s. once the stockpile falls.
i'm done see you in 5-10 (years) :)
Click to expand...

Somebody hasn't been paying attention
 
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G

gothuevos

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2010
3,364
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How long until Russia simply states that any further sanctions and/or foreign aid to Ukraine will be considered an act of war? Would they even take that step?
 
M

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,193
3,977
136
evident said:
Dems need to hang this on the necks of republicans to have a chance on the midterms.
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I don't see this moving the needle on midterms. It doesn't solve the most pressing problems of COVID and high inflation, although there is a lot of optimism right now that COVID is becoming endemic.

IF Putin loses this war, you'd think that DJT would look like a moron for fellating daddy Vladdy yet again. But let's be real, Trumpsters don't care all that much that Teflon Don is a tool of Russia. It might be just enough opening for Ron DeathSantis to try and primary Trump but I don't think this attack line will resonate with MAGAts.
 
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