Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[Artorias]

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I'll be very surprised if this meeting actually occurs.

If this does happen then you know Putin is under serious threat from within his own ranks. There has still been no indication the oligarchs are starting to put the heat on Putin.

 

[RnR_au]

If this does happen then you know Putin is under serious threat from within his own ranks. There has still been no indication the oligarchs are starting to put the heat on Putin.

I did a late edit to my post... seems there is some wiggle room in just exactly was promised in terms of any meetings

But yes, Putin is not under threat atm. In 6 months time though with his economy going from bad to worse...

 

[K1052]

Sounds like things went relatively well. Most importantly no fall outs between Ukraine-US-Euros. We’ll see if Putin actually meets or if he continues to stonewall.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I agree that Trump saluted out of ignorance.

I just don't understand why trump doesn't seem like a traitor to the country you love. I mean, not even a little bit? Why should an ignorant person like that be in office even?

 

[outriding]

No double standard found. In response I posted an image showing Obama doing an equally ignorant action as Trump. Then Stated that was Obama Bowing...

They were both Ignorant in their actions.

Why do you constantly do a double standard between Democrats and Republicans?

So put up or shut up and show me where I give the dems a blank check.


But good job bringing in Obama to a thread that he did not have anything to do with.

 

[Indus]

But good job bringing in Obama to a thread that he did not have anything to do with.

He suffers from OFMWDS "Obama Fucked My Wife derangement syndrome!"

 

[HomerJS]

Why are the MAGAts, Vance and the right media claiming

Trump deserves credit…..
Trump deserves credit…..

He hasn't done shit yet on his promise to end the way day one. Right wing has ALWAYS been against participation trophies but now they want Trump to have one.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why are the MAGAts, Vance and the right media claiming

Trump deserves credit…..
Trump deserves credit…..

He hasn't done shit yet on his promise to end the way day one. Right wing has ALWAYS been against participation trophies but now they want Trump to have one.

Trump is Putin's little bitch, you can tell because for 7 months he has done nothing but demand Ukraine surrender.
Trump never has, and never will, lift a finger against Russia. Any utterance otherwise is merely for public relations in service of this goal. To get us to back off and not murder MAGA for treason.

Their words are devotion to their feckless god.
Their actions are treason against us for Russia.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Trump never has, and never will, lift a finger against Russia.

putin has dirt on him. Probably has it on most repugs or even has tons of sleeper agents in the repug party. There is no other explanation.

 

[K1052]

Reading between the lines a little bit the biggest issue is going to be the land swap. Putin wants the rest of Donetsk oblast. Ukraine is not going to give that up without receiving something very sizable in return, like comparable amount of land in Zapo Oblast which includes the ZNPP.

 

[silverspaceship]

Reading between the lines a little bit the biggest issue is going to be the land swap. Putin wants the rest of Donetsk oblast. Ukraine is not going to give that up without receiving something very sizable in return, like comparable amount of land in Zapo Oblast which includes the ZNPP.

Yeah, we must insist on regaining control over the entire Zaporizhzhia Oblast if such negotiations are to take place at all.
The remaining part of the Donetsk Oblast that we control is an excellent fortified position that the orcs have been pounding against for years, unable to break through. The natural terrain and constructed fortifications make it incredibly difficult for the russians to advance.
We cannot trade that away merely for the Zaporizhzhia NPP, because if the moscovites attack again, they would easily seize the plant, which is pressed up against the Dnipro. And from the territories gained in Donetsk, they could very quickly reach Kharkiv. The exchange would clearly be unequal.

 

[K1052]

Yeah, we must insist on regaining control over the entire Zaporizhzhia Oblast if such negotiations are to take place at all.
The remaining part of the Donetsk Oblast that we control is an excellent fortified position that the orcs have been pounding against for years, unable to break through. The natural terrain and constructed fortifications make it incredibly difficult for the russians to advance.
We cannot trade that away merely for the Zaporizhzhia NPP, because if the moscovites attack again, they would easily seize the plant, which is pressed up against the Dnipro. And from the territories gained in Donetsk, they could very quickly reach Kharkiv. The exchange would clearly be unequal.

To be clear I think Moscow would reject even this unequal exchange as Putin is clearly not inclined to make basically any meaningful concessions so far. My baseline expectation is for this peace effort to fail but Zelensky's job is to make it obvious it failed because of Putin not him. Meanwhile Ukraine and the EU nations need to keep the arms coming from the US and continue to substantially expand Ukraine's long range strike capacity. There have been some rumors that the Germans, since Merz took over, have now funded many of these efforts including production of that new heavyweight cruise missile. Giving Ukraine Taurus is apparently not tenable politically but helping them with money and parts to produce domestic systems is fine.

 

[Indus]

Anyone speak Russkie and can tell me if this is Orcland??

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah, we must insist on regaining control over the entire Zaporizhzhia Oblast if such negotiations are to take place at all.
The remaining part of the Donetsk Oblast that we control is an excellent fortified position that the orcs have been pounding against for years, unable to break through. The natural terrain and constructed fortifications make it incredibly difficult for the russians to advance.
We cannot trade that away merely for the Zaporizhzhia NPP, because if the moscovites attack again, they would easily seize the plant, which is pressed up against the Dnipro. And from the territories gained in Donetsk, they could very quickly reach Kharkiv. The exchange would clearly be unequal.

This is important context. I suspect from your perspective that you consider it highly likely that Russia will attack you again in the future, which has to inform any discussions. I know I would if I were in your position.

 

[silverspaceship]

To be clear I think Moscow would reject even this unequal exchange as Putin is clearly not inclined to make basically any meaningful concessions so far. My baseline expectation is for this peace effort to fail but Zelensky's job is to make it obvious it failed because of Putin not him. Meanwhile Ukraine and the EU nations need to keep the arms coming from the US and continue to substantially expand Ukraine's long range strike capacity. There have been some rumors that the Germans, since Merz took over, have now funded many of these efforts including production of that new heavyweight cruise missile. Giving Ukraine Taurus is apparently not tenable politically but helping them with money and parts to produce domestic systems is fine.

Yes, I also believe that the attempt to exchange territories will fail. No matter what Putin says, he does not want the war to end and will not stop until he has taken over all of Ukraine. I still doubt that he will even show up to meet with Zelensky.

 

[silverspaceship]

This is important context. I suspect from your perspective that you consider it highly likely that Russia will attack you again in the future, which has to inform any discussions. I know I would if I were in your position.

Yes, I just wanted to provide a bit of context: Putin didn't bring up Donetsk Oblast for no reason - the russians have wanted to seize it since 2014 because it's strategically important to them. It would open convenient attack routes toward three major cities at once: Kharkiv, Dnipro, and Zaporizhzhia.
Even if, in theory, some kind of "ceasefire/truce/peace" will be signed, we must not relax. We should prepare for the next war. That's why we can't consider any land swap simply by square kilometres; we must assess it from a military- tactical and strategic perspective in case of a new russian attack. And they will attack again, no doubt.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Anyone speak Russkie and can tell me if this is Orcland??

5 suspects charged over deadly explosion in Ukraine's Zhytomyr Oblast

According to prosecutors, one of the company directors had established illegal production of explosive materials and involved unqualified personnel without the necessary training or certification.

kyivindependent.com

Ukraine but looks like it was accidental.

 

[Jaskalas]

Reading between the lines a little bit the biggest issue is going to be the land swap. Putin wants the rest of Donetsk oblast. Ukraine is not going to give that up without receiving something very sizable in return, like comparable amount of land in Zapo Oblast which includes the ZNPP.

Russia has agreed to give up nothing, to give Ukraine NOTHING in exchange for abandoning land/people and moving the front-line 80km closer to several major cities.

Strategically, regaining ALL of Kherson and Zapo would be a reasonable trade. Would secure Kherson city, the Dnipro river, and provide a small choke point exiting Crimea.
It would put Ukraine in a much stronger position in the South.... and in range of the Kerch bridge. To destroy it once and for all upon the resumption of hostilities.
That is not a bad exchange. Which is why Russia will never agree to it.

Russia's only purpose is the complete and total Genocide of the Ukrainian people. Their actions and their "agreements" only ever move towards that goal.
Which is why I fume with unbridled rage at any treasonous bastard that does not stand with Europe, with NATO, and with Ukraine.
I was furious with MAGA before they sided with Russia in 2022. But now, they might as well be the enemy.

To give up precious land for nothing, is no deal at all.

 

[hal2kilo]

Why are the MAGAts, Vance and the right media claiming

Trump deserves credit…..
Trump deserves credit…..

He hasn't done shit yet on his promise to end the way day one. Right wing has ALWAYS been against participation trophies but now they want Trump to have one.

You can see he's befuddled and just throwing out a occasional un huh, being outclassed by actual diplomats. I feel so bad for Ukraine right now, Trump just jerking them along so Putin can keep inflicting damage. Clown car diplomacy in action. As an American, I'm deeply embarrassed.

 

[pcgeek11]

So put up or shut up and show me where I give the dems a blank check.


But good job bringing in Obama to a thread that he did not have anything to do with.

Why was Obama bowing to another countries leader?

You seem to think he was OK doing something ignorant while Trump is a traitor for doing something ignorant.

But I know how it is in here with all the echo chamber pressure...

 

[pcgeek11]

I just don't understand why trump doesn't seem like a traitor to the country you love. I mean, not even a little bit? Why should an ignorant person like that be in office even?

I think that the Biden Administration was more traitorous than Trump. Biden was not performing nor was he capable as President and we don't know who was.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think that the Biden Administration was more traitorous than Trump.

Taking away civil liberties and turning the US into russia isn't treason?

 

[you2]

I think that the Biden Administration was more traitorous than Trump. Biden was not performing nor was he capable as President and we don't know who was.

You seem to know an awful lot about Biden administration performance. In what fashion was Biden administration not performing?

 

[kage69]

 

[pcgeek11]

Taking away civil liberties and turning the US into russia isn't treason?

Neither of which is true.