Rumour: Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II.

[videoclone]

I think we will see price drops on the lower end parts when it comes to shelf stock due to the number these things sell at...

 

[AtenRa]

Well ok, could you provide a source of that usage for today? Because as I said, I've never heard those numbers in usage from anyone but you in this thread and according to what you wrote "all companies use those numbers for their products".

No sorry i don’t have a source right now.

Edit: Intel Core i7 was and still is a High End CPU no matter the platform.

Edit: http://download.intel.com/products/roadmap/roadmap.pdf

 

[chihlidog]

If that pricing information is accurate, then I truly hope the price reflects performance. I'm getting tired of waiting to see what BD is capable of. 3 weeks before hard launch and we dont have any numbers.

I truly believe AMD is hurting themselves by handling it this way. I am an AMD fanboy, and I would love to go with a BD, but Im ready to go now, and have only shadows and rumor to keep me from going with a proven winner, the 2500k. Im trying to hold out, waiting for SOME sort of official info.

 

[jvroig]

I truly believe AMD is hurting themselves by handling it this way

The only ones being disappointed are those in the "enthusiast" crowd, which comprise a very small % in their target market.

The ones who are important - their partners (like big accounts in the server space and OEMs) - most certainly have more information than forum denizens, and that is really all that matters.

I do not know how many times it needs to be said. The business of AMD (and Intel) does not revolve around enthusiasts, and so they rightfully do not prioritize the feelings of enthusiasts over the welfare of the OEMs.

 

[Borealis7]

yeah but what about the buzz? BD has near 0 buzz due to lack of information, which makes you think they're trying to downplay it.

 

[Phynaz]

No sorry i don’t have a source right now.

Edit: Intel Core i7 was and still is a High End CPU no matter the platform.

Edit: http://download.intel.com/products/roadmap/roadmap.pdf

Well, first of all, nothing you linked to has prices in it.

Second, the 990 is obviously the high end part. Although I suppose you could call the rest of the i7 line either lower high end or upper mid range.

 

[chihlidog]

The only ones being disappointed are those in the "enthusiast" crowd, which comprise a very small % in their target market.

The ones who are important - their partners (like big accounts in the server space and OEMs) - most certainly have more information than forum denizens, and that is really all that matters.

I do not know how many times it needs to be said. The business of AMD (and Intel) does not revolve around enthusiasts, and so they rightfully do not prioritize the feelings of enthusiasts over the welfare of the OEMs.

Fair point. But we count for something else aside from sales, the intangible mentioned above - buzz. It's dorks like us that create word of mouth marketing which trickles down to more "average" users.

 

[Idontcare]

Fair point. But we count for something else aside from sales, the intangible mentioned above - buzz. It's dorks like us that create word of mouth marketing which trickles down to more
"average" users.

Methinks you may be over-estimating the "sphere of influence" we "dorks" wield in the grander scheme of things.

Its an easy trapping, this inflated sense of self-worth based on the notion that "I need be paid my respects, fear me Intel/AMD for I have friends and family and you would be the fool to neglect their thousands of dollars that I single-handedly prejudice to buy one company's goods over the other!".

Oh to be sure we all have our larger-than-self sphere's of influence but I simply put forth for your consideration that the very fact neither AMD nor Intel are banging down our doors to give us their uber goods should be proof that the cumulative totality of the dork's sphere of influence is quite simply so diminutive that it isn't worth their time to curry our favor.

These corporations know what they are doing, where the revenue comes from, its their business to know after all. That's why they hold developer forums (IDF, etc), and analyst meetings, and pay good coin for developer programs.

If the world followed the behest of the enthusiast dorks then in 2005 we would have all been using RedHat linux on AMD cpu's and neither Microsoft's nor Intel's advertising to the masses would have made a hill of beans.

To whatever extent our sphere of influence stands to determine the fortunes or misfortunes of these businesses it is clear that the overall effect is quite small, small enough that neither company really spends much time/effort currying its favor.

 

[Martimus]

yeah but what about the buzz? BD has near 0 buzz due to lack of information, which makes you think they're trying to downplay it.

Are you kidding me? You posted in a 92 page, 2200+ post thread about Bulldozer that Bulldozer has "zero buzz"? What would you consider buzz to be, if I may ask?

EDIT: I just checked and this thread is the second most viewed thread in CPUs and Overclocking since Anandtech switched forums. This is obviously not running under the radar at all, at least not in our community.

 

[veri745]

3 weeks before hard launch and we dont have any numbers.

Everyone on this forum keeps saying this...

How do we know BD will hard launch in 3 weeks? I haven't seen any release date information outside of the rumor-mill FUD sites.

 

[chihlidog]

Methinks you may be over-estimating the "sphere of influence" we "dorks" wield in the grander scheme of things.

Its an easy trapping, this inflated sense of self-worth based on the notion that "I need be paid my respects, fear me Intel/AMD for I have friends and family and you would be the fool to neglect their thousands of dollars that I single-handedly prejudice to buy one company's goods over the other!".

Oh to be sure we all have our larger-than-self sphere's of influence but I simply put forth for your consideration that the very fact neither AMD nor Intel are banging down our doors to give us their uber goods should be proof that the cumulative totality of the dork's sphere of influence is quite simply so diminutive that it isn't worth their time to curry our favor.

These corporations know what they are doing, where the revenue comes from, its their business to know after all. That's why they hold developer forums (IDF, etc), and analyst meetings, and pay good coin for developer programs.

If the world followed the behest of the enthusiast dorks then in 2005 we would have all been using RedHat linux on AMD cpu's and neither Microsoft's nor Intel's advertising to the masses would have made a hill of beans.

To whatever extent our sphere of influence stands to determine the fortunes or misfortunes of these businesses it is clear that the overall effect is quite small, small enough that neither company really spends much time/effort currying its favor.

You took me a little bit the wrong way. What I mean is that I think the enthusiast market can make a product really hot. If AMD gets us all salivating for something, then we adopt it, it gains a reputation as "the thing to have", etc. Which results in trickle down sales. If the 8110 is really all that some of us hope, then give us a tiny taste and build it's reputation. The average user might not need the 8110, or want to pay for it. But they might be willing to pay for the 4110 since it's the little brother of the really hot CPU (just examples obviously). I think there could be a lot more buzz on this thing outside of the enthusiast community if AMD leaked just a little tiny bit.

I didnt mean my comment so arrogantly as it came off. I know AMD doesnt care if I personally buy one or not (I'd still like to. I'm cheering for BD to come out swinging) but I think they're missing an opportunity if they indeed have a good product.

 

[Phynaz]

If AMD gets us all salivating for something, then we adopt it, it gains a reputation as "the thing to have", etc.

Look at Apple products, which in some ways you could call 'anti-enthusiast'.

They are certainly the 'thing to have', while most enthusiasts hate them.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

You took me a little bit the wrong way. What I mean is that I think the enthusiast market can make a product really hot. If AMD gets us all salivating for something, then we adopt it, it gains a reputation as "the thing to have", etc. Which results in trickle down sales.

If a product is really hot, then it doesn't matter if info is released early or not. All of that will happen regardless.

 

[chihlidog]

If a product is really hot, then it doesn't matter if info is released early or not. All of that will happen regardless.

To a point. But with zero info to go on, many, many people will just go with the intel system since it's an available product and a known quantity. Like I said, I love AMD, my current system is my first intel and I would love to be able to buy a truly screaming AMD CPU, Im trying to hold off until release. I dont think most people would, though.

 

[ed29a]

Look at Apple products, which in some ways you could call 'anti-enthusiast'.

They are certainly the 'thing to have', while most enthusiasts hate them.

I think most enthusiasts hate the price tag. Not the actual machines themselves.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Yes, pathfinding is a necessity for everyone in the industry. Intel just has to be one step ahead of the pack in this game owing to the fact they are one step ahead in the node cycle. That doesn't mean everyone else is waiting on pins and needles to take lead from Intel.

Both HKMG and FinFET xtor designs have been bandied about as leading candidates to replace traditional planar CMOS for ages. There is nothing novel here in terms of the industry of process tech R&D, what is unique is the aggressiveness in terms of the timeline for inserting these technologies into HVM environments.

But again I will remind that this is too is not a trophy that is solely Intel's year after year, they were slow to adopt copper, slow to adopt low-k, delayed their transition to immersion litho, and never got onboard with SOI.

Everyone in this industry makes calculated risks, performs their cost-benefits assessments, does their pathfinding.

But somewhere along this discussion here you lost me in terms of the relevance.

It was in response to your 2251 post above. Your time frame is inline for intels 10nm QWInSb.

 

[Martimus]

To a point. But with zero info to go on, many, many people will just go with the intel system since it's an available product and a known quantity. Like I said, I love AMD, my current system is my first intel and I would love to be able to buy a truly screaming AMD CPU, Im trying to hold off until release. I dont think most people would, though.

I completely disagree with you. I have seen more interest in this CPU launch than any launch since the original Pentium. This is shown through the massive number of views this very topic has, even though we have very little information on the actual performance of the processors.

 

[-Slacker-]

I see that this topic has really taken off lately and I saw someone post about price points for lynx.

Can someone direct me with a link to the first posts with said information ?(if someone remembers them off the top of their head, of course; I don't really feel like digging through pages of bickering about weather the 2600k is midrange or high end, so I don't want to impose my request on anyone who feels the same way)

Thanks in advance

 

[AtenRa]

Well, first of all, nothing you linked to has prices in it.

Second, the 990 is obviously the high end part. Although I suppose you could call the rest of the i7 line either lower high end or upper mid range.

We know the prices since day one
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/...-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/2


High End CPUs are not only at $999 price, all Intel’s Core i7 CPUs were and still are High End, that’s how Intel market them, that’s how they price them (Entry level Core i7 like 920, 930 and 2600/K CPU’s always depute at $300, that’s the entry level of High End and goes all the way up to Extreme edition). That is why SB-E Quad Core will start at $300 and they will go up from that point.

So a 4 Module 8 core BD at $320 is a high end CPU and at that price (If it is real) i expect it to be faster than SB 2600 (at least in Multithreaded benchmarks).


Edit: Forgot this one

SB-E Quad Core at 3.6GHz better be faster than 4 Module 8 Core BD at $300, BD will be a cheaper Platform than 2011.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I think most enthusiasts hate the price tag. Not the actual machines themselves.

I dislike crapple because they take generic hardware, sell it at an premium as it was something "speciel"..it's not.

That and the reality distortion field...

 

[formulav8]

I think most enthusiasts hate the price tag. Not the actual machines themselves.

I just don't like the brand.

I could care less about how Intel markets the product. High-end to me is how they price it. And a $300 price is definitely high-end in my poor shoes.

 

[Idontcare]

You took me a little bit the wrong way. What I mean is that I think the enthusiast market can make a product really hot. If AMD gets us all salivating for something, then we adopt it, it gains a reputation as "the thing to have", etc. Which results in trickle down sales. If the 8110 is really all that some of us hope, then give us a tiny taste and build it's reputation. The average user might not need the 8110, or want to pay for it. But they might be willing to pay for the 4110 since it's the little brother of the really hot CPU (just examples obviously). I think there could be a lot more buzz on this thing outside of the enthusiast community if AMD leaked just a little tiny bit.

I didnt mean my comment so arrogantly as it came off. I know AMD doesnt care if I personally buy one or not (I'd still like to. I'm cheering for BD to come out swinging) but I think they're missing an opportunity if they indeed have a good product.

Yeah I mistook your post, but surely you'd agree that AMD needs to manage their supply chain and existing inventory as a simple matter of business prudence?

If they let the cat out of the bag then what happens to sales of their 45nm chips between now and whenever they can get the 32nm stuff on the shelves?

I submit to you the example of their 58xx series Cypress-based GPU's for which they kept a tight lid on the info and leaks all the way up to launch day. This appears to have done little, if any, harm to AMD's 40nm-based GPU marketshare and revenue. At the same time they did not find themselves in a situation of needing to write-off their 4xxx inventory. Happy ending for team AMD on that on.

 

[chihlidog]

Yeah I mistook your post, but surely you'd agree that AMD needs to manage their supply chain and existing inventory as a simple matter of business prudence?

If they let the cat out of the bag then what happens to sales of their 45nm chips between now and whenever they can get the 32nm stuff on the shelves?

I submit to you the example of their 58xx series Cypress-based GPU's for which they kept a tight lid on the info and leaks all the way up to launch day. This appears to have done little, if any, harm to AMD's 40nm-based GPU marketshare and revenue. At the same time they did not find themselves in a situation of needing to write-off their 4xxx inventory. Happy ending for team AMD on that on.

Another fair point. I sort of see where they're coming from. I really think, though, that if they made a semi-official statement that BD will indeed compete with SB (IPC, single threaded, etc) then it would do more for their sales in the long run.

Like I said, I am waiting for BD to upgrade my system, at which point I still might go with a 2500k. However, I am enough of a fan to wait, and I gotta admit that just the sound of "my FX-8110" is intensely appealing.

 

[bgt]

I submit to you the example of their 58xx series Cypress-based GPU's for which they kept a tight lid on the info and leaks all the way up to launch day. This appears to have done little, if any, harm to AMD's 40nm-based GPU marketshare and revenue. At the same time they did not find themselves in a situation of needing to write-off their 4xxx inventory. Happy ending for team AMD on that on.

Exactly. Thats the way to do it. I told many custommers to hold on till Llano is released, for laptops primarily, and by the time you can buy them I will tell my custommers to order. Llano will be a real laptop killer CPU/GPU.

 

[Wizlem]

I submit to you the example of their 58xx series Cypress-based GPU's for which they kept a tight lid on the info and leaks all the way up to launch day. This appears to have done little, if any, harm to AMD's 40nm-based GPU marketshare and revenue. At the same time they did not find themselves in a situation of needing to write-off their 4xxx inventory. Happy ending for team AMD on that on.

I think the key point here is that they had a serious advantage over the competition in this case. For the situation to turn out the same, Bulldozer needs to be better than Sandy Bridge. Even though I already have a sandy bridge, I still hope this turns out to be the case.