Rumour: Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II.

[AtenRa]

Intel's high end costs several times more than a 2600K.

High end is not only above $999

Its the same with all the PC hardware,

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$0-100 low end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$100-200 Mid end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$200 and up High End

Core i7 is a High End CPU no mater the socket/platform

 

[LucJoe]

NOTE . Take it somewere else . We all know for FACT the 2600K 17 is Intels midrange part. It is Intels highest ranked midrange until intel offers its own 125TDP cpu in that range if they even want to go over 95watts TDP. These are facts not conjecture. As 2600k has been out since jan 0f 2011. Intels 95watt TDC also includes IGP . and yes you can say cpu doesn't matter all ya want . But I sure 80% of the buyers out their will disagree. We will all see soon enough

Uhh.. 2600k is going to be Intel's midrange, when SB-E and Ivy Bridge come out. Currently, it's the high end. If Bulldozer can edge it out of the market (higher performance at the ~$300 price range) then it will be a major win for AMD.

Can we at least agree on that?

 

[lol123]

I agree that the i7-2600K is a mid-end CPU, even though it has stellar performance and with the current line-up arguably has the best performance among Intel CPUs. However, remember that the Socket 1155 platform still lacks many features that Gulftown on Socket 1366 has and which SB-E on Socket 2011 will also have.

 

[LucJoe]

I agree that the i7-2600K is a mid-end CPU, even though it has stellar performance and with the current line-up arguably has the best performance among Intel CPUs. However, remember that the Socket 1155 platform still lacks many features that Gulftown on Socket 1366 has and which SB-E on Socket 2011 will also have.

Heh, it sort of seems like Intel is intentionally leaving a gap in their lineup so AMD can have some short lived relevance before they get crushed SB-E/IB
:sneaky:

 

[AtenRa]

If Intel says that 2600K is Midrange thats what it is

Can you please show me Intel marketing Core i7 2600/K as a mid end CPU ??

 

[Nemesis 1]

Uhh.. 2600k is going to be Intel's midrange, when SB-E and Ivy Bridge come out. Currently, it's the high end. If Bulldozer can edge it out of the market (higher performance at the ~$300 price range) then it will be a major win for AMD.

Can we at least agree on that?

No we can't agree on that .amd is pricing their highend model against sb midrange , intel 2011 socket is the highend. sb is out its real. intel has seen fit to show us midrange only . you think the 2011 won't kick butt . i do amd pricing says its true. if amd is close to high performance sb /than they goofed on pricing. if the raise pricies later than the market will scream robbery

 

[lol123]

Can you please show me Intel marketing Core i7 2600/K as a mid end CPU ??

Here is an example:



Although admittedly it's more of an internal document than marketing, it shows how Intel looks at its current desktop line-up. i7-990X remains the top-end CPU until the release of SB-E, and the i7-2600K is considered to be below Gulfown and Lynnfield offerings.

 

[Vesku]

No we can't agree on that .amd is pricing their highend model against sb midrange , intel 2011 socket is the highend. sb is out its real. intel has seen fit to show us midrange only . you think the 2011 won't kick butt . i do amd pricing says its true. if amd is close to high performance sb /than they goofed on pricing. if the raise pricies later than the market will scream robbery

"sb is out its real." Sure, but 2011 socket isn't out yet. i7-2600K is the current beginning of Intel's high end line. When 2011 launches and they finally refresh their $400+ lineup, then you can say the ~$300 socket 1155 CPU is the end of their mid range vs beginning of high end.

BTW this thread has gotten very meta. People are comparing unconfirmed prices on yet to launch products. Still interesting to read, though. ;p

 

[Lonbjerg]

High end is not only above $999

Its the same with all the PC hardware,

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$0-100 low end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$100-200 Mid end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$200 and up High End

Core i7 is a High End CPU no mater the socket/platform

Only in the eyes of a few (poor?) enthusisasts.

There is a clear mark between 1156/1155 and socket 1336.

 

[AtenRa]

Here is an example:



Although admittedly it's more of an internal document than marketing, it shows how Intel looks at its current desktop line-up. i7-990X remains the top-end CPU until the release of SB-E, and the i7-2600K is considered to be below Gulfown and Lynnfield offerings.

We can clearly see that Core i5 is Mainstream (Mid End) and Core i 7 is Premium Performance (High end).

Core i7 SB-E quad cores will be the entry level of High End, with Extreme edition CPUs (Hex core) the upper level of High End.

 

[AtenRa]

Only in the eyes of a few (poor?) enthusisasts.

There is a clear mark between 1156/1155 and socket 1336.

Their is a difference between enthusiast product and High End product.

1155/1156 platform has low end motherboards sub $100/Mid end (up to $200) and High End (more than $200) but the platform is not created/marketed for enthusiasts like 1366 and 2011 although we have a lot of 1156/1155 enthusiast/OC motherboards.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Heh, it sort of seems like Intel is intentionally leaving a gap in their lineup so AMD can have some short lived relevance before they get crushed SB-E/IB
:sneaky:

I personnally don't see that gap . I thought there might be a gap but Now we know that SB-E will have a 4 core die. That surprized me and it also removeded that gap your thinking of and the one I thought might be there but alas Intel covered all the bases.

 

[Phynaz]

High end is not only above $999

Its the same with all the PC hardware,

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$0-100 low end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$100-200 Mid end

CPU/Mobo/GPU
$200 and up High End

Core i7 is a High End CPU no mater the socket/platform

You have picked arbitrary numbers that for you define high end.

Most other people (who also pick arbitrary numbers) consider those mid range due to the fact there are much higher end offerings available.

 

[Soleron]

The present 2600K at present clocks would come in at 47 1/2 watts.

Really? Did Penryn go to 47.5W from 95W Conroes? Power was down slightly, but not by 50%.

 

[Vesku]

I personnally don't see that gap . I thought there might be a gap but Now we know that SB-E will have a 4 core die. That surprized me and it also removeded that gap your thinking of and the one I thought might be there but alas Intel covered all the bases.

Oh, a 4 core SB-E? Seems like Intel might be assuming Zambezi is at least on par with their current SB CPUs. If AMD can't sell a ~$900 CPU I don't see that as a failure on AMD's part I see that as Intel making some extra money on their process advantage.

 

[AtenRa]

You have picked arbitrary numbers that for you define high end.

Most other people consider those mid range.

The numbers are not mine, all companies use those numbers for their products (CPU/Mobo/GPU etc).

Now if I or you or whoever believes that High End is above the $500 that is another story.

 

[Phynaz]

Really? Did Penryn go to 47.5W from 95W Conroes? Power was down slightly, but not by 50%.

Did Conroe ever draw 95w at stock?

 

[Bearach]

Really ! So its the same as finfet . The truth is what YOU say it is. When a thing is invented for the Masses the inventor gets to name it and place it into a scheme. Intel was first to market tri-gate hence they get to name it . Industry want to bees may want to name it Finfet . But Intel has named it tri gate so thats what it is period . Intel will never call it a FINFET design. Finfet was used to describe planar transitors also the differance being 2 gates. If Intel says that 2600K is Midrange thats what it is . YOU don't get to place it . On the 4 core SB 2011. That has NO IGP . So it will likely be higher clocked intel has lots of room to reach 125 watts TDP on the 2011 socket. 30watts TDP+ what ever the IGP is using on the midrange 2600K . So NO 2600K does not equal the 4 core 17 2011 socket processor.

Aren't you assuming that others are not working on a similar design? FINFET of their own, may not be exact, but in time others may also implement something that offers close to the same benefits? Intel are first, but doesn't mean there won't be others.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Aren't you assuming that others are not working on a similar design? FINFET of their own, may not be exact, but in time others may also implement something that offers close to the same benefits? Intel are first, but doesn't mean there won't be others.

The notable others have to "sell" their processes to clients, which makes the development processes more open. Which is why we know that while GloFo is working on a finfet design, they won't ship it for at least 2-3 years.

So, while yes, the others will eventually catch up to Intel, there's going to be some painful 2 years during which AMD will (again) have to try and compete against a product built with fundamentally better process.

 

[lol123]

The numbers are not mine, all companies use those numbers for their products (CPU/Mobo/GPU etc).

Now if I or you or whoever believes that High End is above the $500 that is another story.

I have never heard of any company defining all CPUs or all GPUs (motherboards are a different story) over $200 as high-end. Although that might be a rather viable definition today, it certainly wasn't just a few years ago.

 

[Phynaz]

The numbers are not mine, all companies use those numbers for their products (CPU/Mobo/GPU etc).

Now if I or you or whoever believes that High End is above the $500 that is another story.

In that case there are no low end server CPU's.

Maybe no mid range either.

 

[Bearach]

The notable others have to "sell" their processes to clients, which makes the development processes more open. Which is why we know that while GloFo is working on a finfet design, they won't ship it for at least 2-3 years.

So, while yes, the others will eventually catch up to Intel, there's going to be some painful 2 years during which AMD will (again) have to try and compete against a product built with fundamentally better process.

I agree it can take a long time, but it comes across like no one else can ever have a similar technology. AMD and others will be at a disadvantage no doubt, but lets not think this is the "magic" that instantly kills the competition.

It's not just their process that makes their current processors better, process is just a part of it. I will say it certainly helps, but you can have the better process and still have a bad processor.

 

[AtenRa]

I have never heard of any company defining all CPUs or all GPUs (motherboards are a different story) over $200 as high-end. Although that might be a rather viable definition today, it certainly wasn't just a few years ago.

Well we are talking for today.

In that case there are no low end server CPU's.

Maybe no mid range either.

My bad, I had to say I was talking for desktop products. I really don’t know about the server market.

 

[lol123]

Well we are talking for today.

Well ok, could you provide a source of that usage for today? Because as I said, I've never heard those numbers in usage from anyone but you in this thread and according to what you wrote "all companies use those numbers for their products".

 

[Idontcare]

The notable others have to "sell" their processes to clients, which makes the development processes more open. Which is why we know that while GloFo is working on a finfet design, they won't ship it for at least 2-3 years.

So, while yes, the others will eventually catch up to Intel, there's going to be some painful 2 years during which AMD will (again) have to try and compete against a product built with fundamentally better process.

2-3 yrs is generous. Those who work with this stuff are saying it'll be more like 5 yrs.

Look at the gap between Intel's debut of HKMG and that of AMD/GloFo. (It will be nearly 4yrs)

The technological barriers that must be surmounted in order to implement FinFET make implementing HKMG look trivial. I will be quite impressed if anybody else in the industry is shipping FinFET enabled IC's before 2017.

The primary challenge and biggest issue is simply money. It takes money, ridiculous amounts of it, to run the sort of development program that Intel operated in order to bring their FinFET's out of the laboratory and into a production environment (and we've yet to see if it is actually manufacturable, 22nm isn't released yet for a reason).

It is one thing to say "IBM and GloFo will likely have FinFET at 14nm" and quite another for IBM and GloFo to conjure up the billions and billions of R&D dollars that are necessary to get it done in 5yrs, let alone the money it would take to do it in 2-3yrs.