Rumour: Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II.

[nonameo]

Where did you get this from?

Something I just realized. If these prices are for 1k trays, than BD should demolish SB!

If the FX4110 = 190$, then I guess it will be sold to Newegg for 250$. And newegg sells it to the consumer at 300$ Same price as the 2600. Now this is just my guess but that's how it usually works. Also the FX8130P might retail for around 500$!

Keep in mind the price of the lowest end llano cpu. It's dual core and essentially has a 6450 strapped on-die. That kind of set up can only be worth so much...

 

[videoclone]

RobertPters77.....

if you look on intels website here
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52213

The Tray price of the i7 2600 is $294 putting it inline with the FX8110 at $290
and newegg sell the i7 2600 for $299 ( thats a $6 increase over 1000-unit tray pricing )

Intel's website states the following -
Note: Prices subject to change without notice. Prices are for direct Intel customers in 1000-unit bulk quantities and, unless specified, represent the latest technology versions of the products. Taxes and shipping, etc. not included. Prices may vary for other package types and shipment quantities, and special promotional arrangements may apply.

NOW if the FX-series (Zambezi) CPU's are faster then Intels and AMD has priced them inline because of Brand reputation ( Intel has a better brand so they can charge more and get away with it )

We maybe looking at retail stores price gouging the market and the $300 price ballooning up to $400+
If its on par or slower then retail prices should drop accordingly.

 

[drizek]

But Frys was selling the i7 2600K on Friday for $250.

 

[videoclone]

But Frys was selling the i7 2600K on Friday for $250.

i was just using newegg as an example

 

[drizek]

Ya, I know, but my point is that these suggested prices are often quite a bit higher than what you can get the chips for at retail when on sale.

In another thread I said I would pay $230 max for 8-core bulldozer. I don't think that it is necessarily out of the question for it to be selling at that price. Maybe in a microcenter motherboard bundle or something.

 

[Riek]

The pricing looks really good for AMD. So good, in fact, that either it is false or Intel is in deep, deep trouble.

I don't want to read too much into it, because it could be BS, but just consider the following:

1. The FX4110 is priced the same as the i5 2500K. That means AMD can match intel core for core.

2. Given the minimal performance improvement of the 2600K over the 2500K, intel is screwed at the $300 mark. The only reason anybody would buy a 2600 over a 2500 is because they want the hyperthreading for highly threaded applications. If BD 4110 is matching the 2500K then the 8130P can be up to twice as fast as the 2500K in multithreaded scenarios, blowing the 2600K out of the water.

3. AMD is shipping 95W TDP chips across the line, that means they are doing pretty well in terms of their yields, and it could also mean quite a bit of overclocking headroom.

4. Apply all the above logic to servers and Intel is fucked.

Again, of course, the whole price list could be horseshit.

Second that.

 

[greenhawk]

what i don't understand is does improving branch prediction acctualy helps HT or hurt it?

From what I remember of Hyper-Threading, it makes use of unused sections of the cpu. With a good branch preditction, there should be less unused sections, so HT will be hurt by it.

As to how much, you get back to "how long is a piece of string".

 

[Arkadrel]

llano

E2-3250 = 70$
A4-3350 = 80$
A6-3450 = 110$
A6-3450P = 130$
A6-3550 = 150$
A8-3550P = 170$

Is it just me or does the A8-3550P seem abit on the expensive side?

I was thinking they would retail around the ~150$ (~100$ for CPU, ~50$ for the GPU value wise) since its performance is probably like a Phenom II x4 ~2.7ghz or so and 5570 discrete card alongsides it.


Also yeah... I actually kinda hopeing/expect the Bulldozer to kick SandyBridges behinde.

 

[dma0991]

If laptop manufacturers can release laptops with Llano APU with a reasonable and lower than most SB laptops it would be a big hit. Zacate E-350/C-50 netbooks are selling like hot cakes and Llano should be as well.

Maybe Apple could adopt Llano APU into their range of products as well. It would be awesome on their MacBook Air. :awe:

20 more days to June 7th.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The pricing looks really good for AMD. So good, in fact, that either it is false or Intel is in deep, deep trouble.

I don't want to read too much into it, because it could be BS, but just consider the following:

1. The FX4110 is priced the same as the i5 2500K. That means AMD can match intel core for core.

2. Given the minimal performance improvement of the 2600K over the 2500K, intel is screwed at the $300 mark. The only reason anybody would buy a 2600 over a 2500 is because they want the hyperthreading for highly threaded applications. If BD 4110 is matching the 2500K then the 8130P can be up to twice as fast as the 2500K in multithreaded scenarios, blowing the 2600K out of the water.

3. AMD is shipping 95W TDP chips across the line, that means they are doing pretty well in terms of their yields, and it could also mean quite a bit of overclocking headroom.

4. Apply all the above logic to servers and Intel is fucked.

Again, of course, the whole price list could be horseshit.

REALLY! AMD is pricing there top end 4 module 8core highend With 125watt TDP against intels 4core 8 T 95 watt TDP which includes the IGP This is intels midrange . and You somehow see this as good. LOL ! NOT long left to wait befor we all see the 10% slower BD.

 

[Cogman]

If laptop manufacturers can release laptops with Llano APU with a reasonable and lower than most SB laptops it would be a big hit. Zacate E-350/C-50 netbooks are selling like hot cakes and Llano should be as well.

Maybe Apple could adopt Llano APU into their range of products as well. It would be awesome on their MacBook Air. :awe:

20 more days to June 7th.

It depends on power consumption and performance, where these things actually fit.

If Llano has a GPU that performs as well or better than most mobile GPUs, and a power profile for the APU which is lower or comparable to most moble CPUs, Then I think it will be a winner almost regardless of how the CPU part of the APU performs.

 

[Riek]

REALLY! AMD is pricing there top end 4 module 8core highend With 125watt TDP against intels 4core 8 T 95 watt TDP which includes the IGP This is intels midrange . and You somehow see this as good. LOL ! NOT long left to wait befor we all see the 10% slower BD.

Learn to read will you?

He said

1. The FX4110 is priced the same as the i5 2500K. That means AMD can match intel core for core.

Either the FX4 will be slower by alot compared to the i5 2400/2500 or the FX8 will be alot faster than the 2600. Their is no way around it. you can't double the cores and get a smaller gain on average then a similar cpu which only gains Hyperthreading


Also 2600 is priced around 294$, the P supposably at 320$ (the 95W TDP 8core is at 290$ according to that information).

note: i7 is not their midrange. i5 is. (which is countered by the FX4 in price..)

 

[smartpatrol]

I can't help but think this is a Phenom I all over again. Intel has a CPU out there that is selling like hotcakes. Meanwhile, AMD are silent. If AMD really had something competitive, don't you think they would be making a lot of noise? AMD should be "leaking" all sorts of benchmarks in order to steal Intel's momentum.

 

[Soleron]

I can't help but think this is a Phenom I all over again. Intel has a CPU out there that is selling like hotcakes. Meanwhile, AMD are silent. If AMD really had something competitive, don't you think they would be making a lot of noise? AMD should be "leaking" all sorts of benchmarks in order to steal Intel's momentum.

I know JF has been saying it's never AMD's policy to leak. He's been saying that since well before they knew what final Bulldozer performance was.

Intel leaks because even if AMD has full information about upcoming products their production capacity couldn't be ramped up to much more than 20% of the market demand even if they had a killer product and positioning. So they get the benefits of letting enthusiasts know early. AMD has to keep their competitive advantages secret because Intel could co-opt the engineering work fast and easily scale production to demand.

If those prices are real, they are great. I really like the deduction that either 4110 < 2500K or 8110 > 2600K but not both.

 

[Edrick]

note: i7 is not their midrange. i5 is. (which is countered by the FX4 in price..)

All lga1155 CPUs are their midrange to be exact. That includes the i7 2600.

 

[Riek]

All lga1155 CPUs are their midrange to be exact. That includes the i7 2600.

ok if that is what you mean on socket level, then i7 is the high end of their mainstream products.

I can't help but think this is a Phenom I all over again. Intel has a CPU out there that is selling like hotcakes. Meanwhile, AMD are silent. If AMD really had something competitive, don't you think they would be making a lot of noise? AMD should be "leaking" all sorts of benchmarks in order to steal Intel's momentum.

As artifical as it may be, just like with the radeon 6xxx series. Silence gives more hype then leaks. We get more false information this way then Japan was spraying during the meltdown.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Learn to read will you?

He said


Either the FX4 will be slower by alot compared to the i5 2400/2500 or the FX8 will be alot faster than the 2600. Their is no way around it. you can't double the cores and get a smaller gain on average then a similar cpu which only gains Hyperthreading


Also 2600 is priced around 294$, the P supposably at 320$ (the 95W TDP 8core is at 290$ according to that information).

note: i7 is not their midrange. i5 is. (which is countered by the FX4 in price..)

NOTE . Take it somewere else . We all know for FACT the 2600K 17 is Intels midrange part. It is Intels highest ranked midrange until intel offers its own 125TDP cpu in that range if they even want to go over 95watts TDP. These are facts not conjecture. As 2600k has been out since jan 0f 2011. Intels 95watt TDC also includes IGP . and yes you can say cpu doesn't matter all ya want . But I sure 80% of the buyers out their will disagree. We will all see soon enough

 

[Idontcare]

NOTE . Take it somewere else . We all know for FACT the 2600K 17 is Intels midrange part. It is Intels highest ranked midrange until intel offers its own 125TDP cpu in that range if they even want to go over 95watts TDP. These are facts not conjecture. As 2600k has been out since jan 0f 2011. Intels 95watt TDC also includes IGP . and yes you can say cpu doesn't matter all ya want . But I sure 80% of the buyers out their will disagree. We will all see soon enough

You are getting rather defensive Nemesis...ya ain't scared, are ya? :hmm:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Noway IDC . I really don't care how good BD is . As far as I am concerned its a new processor design on old planar soi . AMD is way to late to the market . As the big buyers are all aware of intels 22nm TRI gate . The present 2600K at present clocks would come in at 47 1/2 watts. Its just to much for AMD toovercome period. AMDs new core on old tech just won't get it done . By this time next year intel will have 90&#37; of the x86 market.

 

[AtenRa]

Intel's Core i7 2600K is a high end CPU and so will be SB-E quad(4) core that will start at $300.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Noway IDC . I really don't care how good BD is . As far as I am concerned its a new processor design on old planar soi . AMD is way to late to the market . As the big buyers are all aware of intels 22nm TRI gate . The present 2600K at present clocks would come in at 47 1/2 watts. Its just to much for AMD toovercome period. AMDs new core on old tech just won't get it done . By this time next year intel will have 90&#37; of the x86 market.

I share some of your conclusions on future performance -- I don't think AMD can stay competitive on planar vs finfet.

But Intel won't have 90% of x86 market. Because they don't want it. What they want is money, and giving performance away at prices that would capture that 90% would absolutely net them less profits than letting AMD set the market baseline and pricing their processors up from that. Which leads to the same situation that we've been in for the past few years -- AMD has ~20% market, Intel has very nearly 100% of the profits.

Seriously think about it -- for years Intel has been in a position where they could at any time take all of AMD's consumer market, simply by reducing the premium they get a little. They chose not to do it, even with the huge manufacturing, and even microarchitecture advantage they held. Why would they do it now?

 

[Phynaz]

Intel's Core i7 2600K is a high end CPU and so will be SB-E quad(4) core that will start at $300.

Intel's high end costs several times more than a 2600K.

 

[formulav8]

Noway IDC . I really don't care how good BD is . As far as I am concerned its a new processor design on old planar soi . AMD is way to late to the market . As the big buyers are all aware of intels 22nm TRI gate . The present 2600K at present clocks would come in at 47 1/2 watts. Its just to much for AMD toovercome period. AMDs new core on old tech just won't get it done . By this time next year intel will have 90% of the x86 market.

You know Intel is a corporation and not your mother correct? :\

You like Intel, great, try to keep things in perspective if you can. It won't be the end of the world if AMD new chips crushes Intel will it?

 

[Idontcare]

Noway IDC . I really don't care how good BD is . As far as I am concerned its a new processor design on old planar soi . AMD is way to late to the market . As the big buyers are all aware of intels 22nm TRI gate . The present 2600K at present clocks would come in at 47 1/2 watts. Its just to much for AMD toovercome period. AMDs new core on old tech just won't get it done . By this time next year intel will have 90% of the x86 market.

I share some of your conclusions on future performance -- I don't think AMD can stay competitive on planar vs finfet.

But Intel won't have 90% of x86 market. Because they don't want it. What they want is money, and giving performance away at prices that would capture that 90% would absolutely net them less profits than letting AMD set the market baseline and pricing their processors up from that. Which leads to the same situation that we've been in for the past few years -- AMD has ~20% market, Intel has very nearly 100% of the profits.

Seriously think about it -- for years Intel has been in a position where they could at any time take all of AMD's consumer market, simply by reducing the premium they get a little. They chose not to do it, even with the huge manufacturing, and even microarchitecture advantage they held. Why would they do it now?

Bobcat on regular plain-vanilla bulk-Si without the benefits of HKMG was able to do rather well against Atom despite the advantage of HKMG for Atom.

Intel's CMOS process tech may well be superior to everybody else in the market but if they don't leverage that into delivering products to the market which actually have some of the superiority fall through to the customer then it hardly becomes a distinguishing feature to the customer.

What I have seen Intel do with their superior process tech is leverage it into generating superior gross margins and PFO.

That may change going forward but I think it is entirely premature (and needless) to write-off AMD's products based on GloFo's process tech progression and timeline.

(as a potential shareholder though it certainly speaks to the bounded projections one ought to place on AMD's forecasted profitability and margins, etc...magic unicorns and pixie dust do not exist)

 

[Nemesis 1]

Intel's Core i7 2600K is a high end CPU and so will be SB-E quad(4) core that will start at $300.

Really ! So its the same as finfet . The truth is what YOU say it is. When a thing is invented for the Masses the inventor gets to name it and place it into a scheme. Intel was first to market tri-gate hence they get to name it . Industry want to bees may want to name it Finfet . But Intel has named it tri gate so thats what it is period . Intel will never call it a FINFET design. Finfet was used to describe planar transitors also the differance being 2 gates. If Intel says that 2600K is Midrange thats what it is . YOU don't get to place it . On the 4 core SB 2011. That has NO IGP . So it will likely be higher clocked intel has lots of room to reach 125 watts TDP on the 2011 socket. 30watts TDP+ what ever the IGP is using on the midrange 2600K . So NO 2600K does not equal the 4 core 17 2011 socket processor.