Rumor: Trump will fire Mueller in 5 days

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I agree Fox news leans to the right, and supports in general a conservative agenda. But so what? Are there not leftist or progressive leaning news sites also? Theres alot of commentary from the left and the right that is straight up batshit crazy. But I dont understand why the tolerant left doesnt understand that although the right has differing beliefs and ways to go about things than they do, it doesnt make it wrong. Its just different. The story of 5 blind men and an elephant comes to mind. You can definitely have multiple viewpoints on an issue, with all being correct. Thats why I consider myself and am registered as an independent. I see both sides more alike than different, but one thing they are is partisan.

Please. I object to these attacks on Mueller & his team, to the undercurrent of innuendo that they aren't acting as honest finders of fact. It's scurrilous ultra partisan character assassination & conspiracy theorizing.

Potential collusion aside, Trump can't afford to admit that the Russians messed with our minds to help get him elected. Not even to himself.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,160
136
MSNBC is a bastion of accuracy and objectivity compared to Breitbart. Breitbart courts out-and-out lies and racism; Breitbart doesn't even pretend to be anything other than a propaganda wing for not just the hard right, but a bigoted strain of it at that. MSNBC may be strongly opinionated, but it at least adheres to basic standards of journalism and human decency.

Yes, trying to equate a journalistic enterprise, albeit a left leaning one, with a website that has (or at least used to have) a section called 'black crime' has to be one of the most ridiculous false equivalencies I have ever heard. Jesus.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,300
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blackangst1 logic:

Flat earthers and scientists have equal validity.

Anti-vaxxers and immunologists have equal credibility.

Moon landing deniers and NASA are have equal intellectual integrity.

There are no lies and misconceptions, only different opinions. And my ignorant misconception has equal footing to your well cited fact.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Please. I object to these attacks on Mueller & his team, to the undercurrent of innuendo that they aren't acting as honest finders of fact. It's scurrilous ultra partisan character assassination & conspiracy theorizing.

Potential collusion aside, Trump can't afford to admit that the Russians messed with our minds to help get him elected. Not even to himself.

I think you misunderstood what I said. It was generalities. Personally I dont have any wacky theories about Meuller, and welcome his findings. Ive never said anything different.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Misconceptions and false propaganda are not opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

And while saying I proved your point you proved mine. Because you consider blatantly counterfactual misinformation "just another opinion." You also equate a fringe with an entire base.

"Very fine people on both sides." Yeah... no.

Please provide a specific example.

And youre doing the same thing. You seem to equate anything Republican as untruth, lies, sheep, etc.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
blackangst1 logic:

Flat earthers and scientists have equal validity.

Anti-vaxxers and immunologists have equal credibility.

Moon landing deniers and NASA are have equal intellectual integrity.

There are no lies and misconceptions, only different opinions. And my ignorant misconception has equal footing to your well cited fact.

You don't seem to be very good at comprehension. And that whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
MSNBC is a bastion of accuracy and objectivity compared to Breitbart. Breitbart courts out-and-out lies and racism; Breitbart doesn't even pretend to be anything other than a propaganda wing for not just the hard right, but a bigoted strain of it at that. MSNBC may be strongly opinionated, but it at least adheres to basic standards of journalism and human decency.

OK Ill give you that. I was making an extreme example. The bottom line is I see value in different and even opposing opinions and news from various viewpoints and sources. Unfortunately, most here anyway, see that as me putting value is wacky theories like flat earth. Oh well. People gotta hate something I guess.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I think you misunderstood what I said. It was generalities. Personally I dont have any wacky theories about Meuller, and welcome his findings. Ive never said anything different.

You have excused his attackers with bothsiderism.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
You have excused his attackers with bothsiderism.

Not true at all. I have never taken the side I think Meuller is on a witch hunt or any of the other crap goinjg around. So bothsdiesism or whatever its called not found.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,160
136
Speaking of Meuller, this doesn't appear to be very good news for him...we'll see what becomes of it

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-for-mueller/ar-BBHmKDT?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

What about it do you think is bad news for him, considering it's not about him?

Regardless, the conservative hysteria about this investigation is one of the most truly depressing things I've seen in government...well...ever. It turns out that the National Security Adviser was secretly in the employ of foreign powers during the campaign and transition and might have still be working with them while in office while he lied to the FBI about it. What is the response? To attack the people he lied to and to go after the FBI, not to immediately start investigating the Trump administration to see what other foreign agents he might have hired. In fact, the Republican response has been to stymie those investigations to the best of their ability, meaning that the only group now meaningfully investigating the president works for him.

The level of corruption here is without precedent as far as I can tell. I hope we can all agree on the need to clean house in 2018. Even conservatives should be on board with the Democrats taking over one of the two houses of Congress just so we can get some meaningful oversight.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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What about it do you think is bad news for him, considering it's not about him?

Regardless, the conservative hysteria about this investigation is one of the most truly depressing things I've seen in government...well...ever. It turns out that the National Security Adviser was secretly in the employ of foreign powers during the campaign and transition and might have still be working with them while in office while he lied to the FBI about it. What is the response? To attack the people he lied to and to go after the FBI, not to immediately start investigating the Trump administration to see what other foreign agents he might have hired. In fact, the Republican response has been to stymie those investigations to the best of their ability, meaning that the only group now meaningfully investigating the president works for him.

The level of corruption here is without precedent as far as I can tell. I hope we can all agree on the need to clean house in 2018. Even conservatives should be on board with the Democrats taking over one of the two houses of Congress just so we can get some meaningful oversight.
Why should we trust Democrats to provide oversight? In the last year, they sat quietly or rationalized a former President and other surrogates trying to influence an FBI investigation into their presidential candidate, and they forced one of their Senators to resign without the courtesy of an ethics hearing.

I look forward to both the Mueller and Horowitz reports, as indications of corruption touch both Trump and Clinton. They should be mutually exclusive, but too many people are vested in narratives that now conflate the two.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,160
136
Why should we trust Democrats to provide oversight? In the last year, they sat quietly or rationalized a former President and other surrogates trying to influence an FBI investigation into their presidential candidate, and they forced one of their Senators to resign without the courtesy of an ethics hearing.

Are you joking? Adversarial oversight by the legislative branch is literally the thing that the people who wrote the Constitution thought would save us from despotism. You currently have a situation where his national security adviser was an unacknowledged agent of a foreign power and where the president routinely visits his properties where powerful people with business before the government put hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket for the opportunity to personally lobby him. Our country has never seen this kind of unmitigated corruption and the Republicans in Congress refuse to do anything about it.

That aside:

1) There is literally no evidence that Bill Clinton attempted to influenced the investigation into Hillary in any way, shape, or form. Zero. What you have is that they talked to each other on an airplane.

2) No one forced Franken to resign, he could have stayed if he wanted to. Regardless this has no bearing

When you try to say that Democrats shouldn't be trusted to provide oversight based on things like this you undermine your own credibility.

I look forward to both the Mueller and Horowitz reports, as indications of corruption touch both Trump and Clinton. They should be mutually exclusive, but too many people are vested in narratives that now conflate the two.

There are no indications of corruption that touch Clinton in any meaningful way. There is an astoundingly large pile of evidence that points to corruption within Trump's administration and with Trump himself. (I mean after all the felony pleas/indictments are really piling up at this point) He is also the president and so his corruption is of vastly, vastly greater importance as if he is as corrupt as he appears he needs to be removed from office immediately for the safety of the country.

This is bothsides-ism at its worst.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,300
19,325
146
You don't seem to be very good at comprehension. And that whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.

Oh no. Your denial does not equate me missing your point.

I get your point all too well. The problem is, you can't see the irrationality of it... and my post putting your argument into perspective sets you into denial mode.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Are you joking? Adversarial oversight by the legislative branch is literally the thing that the people who wrote the Constitution thought would save us from despotism. You currently have a situation where his national security adviser was an unacknowledged agent of a foreign power and where the president routinely visits his properties where powerful people with business before the government put hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket for the opportunity to personally lobby him. Our country has never seen this kind of unmitigated corruption and the Republicans in Congress refuse to do anything about it.

That aside:

1) There is literally no evidence that Bill Clinton attempted to influenced the investigation into Hillary in any way, shape, or form. Zero. What you have is that they talked to each other on an airplane.

2) No one forced Franken to resign, he could have stayed if he wanted to. Regardless this has no bearing

When you try to say that Democrats shouldn't be trusted to provide oversight based on things like this you undermine your own credibility.

There are no indications of corruption that touch Clinton in any meaningful way. There is an astoundingly large pile of evidence that points to corruption within Trump's administration and with Trump himself. (I mean after all the felony pleas/indictments are really piling up at this point) He is also the president and so his corruption is of vastly, vastly greater importance as if he is as corrupt as he appears he needs to be removed from office immediately for the safety of the country.

This is bothsides-ism at its worst.
How can you rationalize being such a Clinton waterboy? No indications, other than Comey testifying that Lynch exerted pressure on the FBI investigation:

"At one point the attorney general had directed me not to call it an investigation, but instead to call it a matter, which confused me and concerned me, but that was one of the bricks in the load that led me to conclude I have to step away from the department if we're to close this case credibly,"

That you constantly dismiss or overlook this little fact undermines your credibility.

Adversarial oversight with the country so polarized is a fantasy. What should happen is that Republicans and Democrats must hold their own accountable. That means the Republican controlled Congress must proceed with impeachment, they don't even need the Mueller findings at this point. If they don't, they deserve to lose Congress. They already lost a Senate seat by doubling down on stupid.

What this also means is that you, rather than rationalizing it, should be saying it is inappropriate for a former President to meet with the acting AG while the entiry she oversees is investigating his wife. You should be questioning why an acting AG compromised herself to the extent that the FBI got dragged into a highly political situation. You should be questioning why Mueller had to dismiss a Clinton waterboy from the his investigative team, which now gives Trump and Republicans adequate ammunition to conflate, confuse and undermine. That wasn't a Fox News article he linked, concern over the Mueller investigation is spreading to credible sources.

But you won't ask those questions. You will instead play the whataboutism card.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
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Look up the meaning of rumor. It seems you haven’t heard of it before.


A false rumor has created pages of partisan bickering. Don't these things get locked up? This was, as it appears to this point, just another leftist fantasy / lie.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,013
15,461
136
A false rumor has created pages of partisan bickering. Don't these things get locked up? This was, as it appears to this point, just another leftist fantasy / lie.

I think I know what is wrong.. Its the brain. In your mind an unfulfilled rumor equals a lie. That is some mad deduction skills right there. The second you state "false rumor" as fact you imply treacherous inception - something you have no evidence for, so now, who is peddling in alternate facts and misinformation.
For all that we know it might have been the counter movement to this rumor that prevented it from actually happening ... Wait a minute, lets play your game :
This was, as it appears to this point, the counter movement, that prevented Trump from firing Mueller this past week.
Yea, still stupid.
You know people are saying ... "Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias" .. that is probably why you and your kin are so busy distorting it and peddle crap instead.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
I think I know what is wrong.. Its the brain. In your mind an unfulfilled rumor equals a lie. That is some mad deduction skills right there. The second you state "false rumor" as fact you imply treacherous inception - something you have no evidence for, so now, who is peddling in alternate facts and misinformation.
For all that we know it might have been the counter movement to this rumor that prevented it from actually happening ... Wait a minute, lets play your game :
This was, as it appears to this point, the counter movement, that prevented Trump from firing Mueller this past week.
Yea, still stupid.
You know people are saying ... "Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias" .. that is probably why you and your kin are so busy distorting it and peddle crap instead.


Was this rumor true or false? I'll file this one in with the "Trump is starting his own SS" conspiracy.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,300
19,325
146
Was this rumor true or false?

It was presented as a rumor. Never as a fact. The rumor was debated. The rumor itself existed. What the rumor was about was ultimately false.

I know these logical differences are hard for you to grasp, but discussing rumors from valid sources is not fake news. Fake News is manufacturing a story and presenting it as solid fact.

But keep trying to muddy the waters of logic and reason. It's like an instant IQ test.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
It was presented as a rumor. Never as a fact. The rumor was debated. The rumor itself existed. What the rumor was about was ultimately false.

I know these logical differences are hard for you to grasp, but discussing rumors from valid sources is not fake news. Fake News is manufacturing a story and presenting it as solid fact.

But keep trying to muddy the waters of logic and reason. It's like an instant IQ test.


The rumor turned out to be untrue. Keep discussing a fairy tale then, I guess. Don't break the circle.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,078
5,448
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It was presented as a rumor. Never as a fact. The rumor was debated. The rumor itself existed. What the rumor was about was ultimately false.

I know these logical differences are hard for you to grasp, but discussing rumors from valid sources is not fake news. Fake News is manufacturing a story and presenting it as solid fact.

But keep trying to muddy the waters of logic and reason. It's like an instant IQ test.

What's really funny is he tries to do a drumpfian gaslight effect on it as well, and it's several levels below drumpfs efforts and his are pathetically low to begin with.