Rumor: Trump will fire Mueller in 5 days

[dyna]

Indeed. The emails in question can likely be obtained via a FOIA request, as well, with only matters of national security redacted. They won't ask your lawyer, either.

I fully expect that anything that is electronic is fair game for the government. The government wants to break into your phone/email/home computer, it will figure out how to do it. It is the reality of the modern age. Politicians always ride that high horse and assume they are immune to all the transparency they expect from the average citizen(peons) and normally they get away with it. It is funny that this precedent is extending into politics. Maybe next up is that they get the same retirement and healthcare options as everybody else.

 

[fskimospy]

I fully expect that anything that is electronic is fair game for the government. The government wants to break into your phone/email/home computer, it will figure out how to do it. It is the reality of the modern age. Politicians always ride that high horse and assume they are immune to all the transparency they expect from the average citizen(peons) and normally they get away with it. It is funny that this precedent is extending into politics. Maybe next up is that they get the same retirement and healthcare options as everybody else.

This is a case of the exact opposite, actually. Had these communications been done on private email/devices they would have had 4th amendment protection and more. Since they were done on government email/devices they enjoy substantially less protection. If these messages were on private email Mueller would have needed a warrant. Since they are on government email he just needed to ask GSA.

 

[Puffnstuff]

The government wants to break into your phone/email/home computer, it will figure out how to do it. It is the reality of the modern age.

I believe that they've already done far more than most people think and as folks adopt more advanced technology into their homes their privacy will further diminish.

 

[jackstar7]

I like how some people (the usuals) are framing this so that if Trump doesn't take steps to stymie the investigation, then that's a win for them... when it's actually still a loss.

Fun times.

 

[dyna]

This is a case of the exact opposite, actually. Had these communications been done on private email/devices they would have had 4th amendment protection and more. Since they were done on government email/devices they enjoy substantially less protection. If these messages were on private email Mueller would have needed a warrant. Since they are on government email he just needed to ask GSA.

If that is truly the case, then the everything should be open and transparent in the government without warrant. It is not.

Diplomats, politicians, judges probably spend most of their time scheming and organizing thoughts/strategies in secret before making decisions. The government, as a company, should provide email service to their employees but by the nature of their jobs they probably expect some protections from revealing these communications. Otherwise, your going to see abuse of this in future cases. Wouldn't it be great to see all the emails of your opponents?

 

[Thebobo]

If that is truly the case, then the everything should be open and transparent in the government without warrant. It is not.

Diplomats, politicians, judges probably spend most of their time scheming and organizing thoughts/strategies in secret before making decisions. The government, as a company, should provide email service to their employees but by the nature of their jobs they probably expect some protections from revealing these communications. Otherwise, your going to see abuse of this in future cases. Wouldn't it be great to see all the emails of your opponents?

So youre saying the FBI is an opponent?

 

[FIVR]

Not looking good. Sen. Warner made a big speech, alone, in support of Mueller today. You don't make speeches in the senate in support of the special prosecutor unless you really do believe he is in danger. Some other democrat congressman was on CNN today and he expressed similar sentiments.


I think we are living in the last days of the Mueller investigation.

 

[Pens1566]

If that is truly the case, then the everything should be open and transparent in the government without warrant. It is not.

Diplomats, politicians, judges probably spend most of their time scheming and organizing thoughts/strategies in secret before making decisions. The government, as a company, should provide email service to their employees but by the nature of their jobs they probably expect some protections from revealing these communications. Otherwise, your going to see abuse of this in future cases. Wouldn't it be great to see all the emails of your opponents?

There's actually a giant disclaimer splash screen any time you sign onto a govt. IT system stating there is no expectation of privacy, that you will be monitored, and that any information will be turned over to LE at their request.

 

[Commodus]

Not looking good. Sen. Warner made a big speech, alone, in support of Mueller today. You don't make speeches in the senate in support of the special prosecutor unless you really do believe he is in danger. Some other democrat congressman was on CNN today and he expressed similar sentiments.


I think we are living in the last days of the Mueller investigation.

I'm not completely convinced that's the case. I'm sure they think there's a lurking risk, but they don't necessarily have the inside track on what's happening. It may be more to remind the Republicans "hey, we know you're trying to distract and derail the investigation, you're not fooling anyone."

 

[Puffnstuff]

I wouldn't put it past Trump to do this on Christmas eve.

 

[Jhhnn]

If that is truly the case, then the everything should be open and transparent in the government without warrant. It is not.

Diplomats, politicians, judges probably spend most of their time scheming and organizing thoughts/strategies in secret before making decisions. The government, as a company, should provide email service to their employees but by the nature of their jobs they probably expect some protections from revealing these communications. Otherwise, your going to see abuse of this in future cases. Wouldn't it be great to see all the emails of your opponents?

Isn't that what buttery males was all about- seeing the emails of your opponent?

 

[blackangst1]

Not looking good. Sen. Warner made a big speech, alone, in support of Mueller today. You don't make speeches in the senate in support of the special prosecutor unless you really do believe he is in danger. Some other democrat congressman was on CNN today and he expressed similar sentiments.


I think we are living in the last days of the Mueller investigation.

So, since Trump himself cant fire Meuller, only Rod Rosenstein, who Trump nominated, can, youre saying Trump will somehow find cause to fire Rosenstein, then nominate someone else who will then fire Meuller?

Sheesh. And they say Repubs live in fantasy land.

 

[blackangst1]

I wouldn't put it past Trump to do this on Christmas eve.

He. Cant.

 

[fskimospy]

So, since Trump himself cant fire Meuller, only Rod Rosenstein, who Trump nominated, can, youre saying Trump will somehow find cause to fire Rosenstein, then nominate someone else who will then fire Meuller?

Sheesh. And they say Repubs live in fantasy land.

I agree that it's unlikely he will fire Mueller, at least until he feels an existential threat from him, but the idea that Trump can't fire Mueller is wrong. He can fire Rosenstein any time he wants for any reason and keep appointing people until they fire Mueller. Alternatively he could just change DOJ regulations and give himself the power to fire Mueller.

Those things might be harmful politically, but in a legal sense there's nothing stopping him from firing Mueller any time he wants. This is unlike Ken Starr who was appointed under a different law that has since expired which really did preclude the president from firing him.

 

[blackangst1]

I agree that it's unlikely he will fire Mueller, at least until he feels an existential threat from him, but the idea that Trump can't fire Mueller is wrong. He can fire Rosenstein any time he wants for any reason and keep appointing people until they fire Mueller. Alternatively he could just change DOJ regulations and give himself the power to fire Mueller.

Those things might be harmful politically, but in a legal sense there's nothing stopping him from firing Mueller any time he wants. This is unlike Ken Starr who was appointed under a different law that has since expired which really did preclude the president from firing him.

Well, factcheck says he cant. http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/can-trump-fire-mueller/

 

[fskimospy]

Well, factchack says he cant. http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/can-trump-fire-mueller/

No, they don't. From the first 'answer' paragraph: (bolding mine)

But Trump could fire the DAG, or order the special-counsel regulations repealed and fire Mueller himself.

Trump can order that regulation repealed today if he wants. It's a DOJ regulation issued by the attorney general, meaning Trump can override it at any time. This might (SHOULD) lead to Trump's impeachment, but it's something he could do.

 

[FIVR]

He. Cant.

You don't understand how this works, do you?

 

[deathBOB]

If that is truly the case, then the everything should be open and transparent in the government without warrant. It is not.

Diplomats, politicians, judges probably spend most of their time scheming and organizing thoughts/strategies in secret before making decisions. The government, as a company, should provide email service to their employees but by the nature of their jobs they probably expect some protections from revealing these communications. Otherwise, your going to see abuse of this in future cases. Wouldn't it be great to see all the emails of your opponents?

Don’t read too much into this. This is a pretty limited case - the application of 4th amendment protections to a transition team (sort of public/sort of private) who may or may not have waived protections (we certainly don’t know the specifics) by using GSA services.

Ignoring the facts, I highly doubt the competent attorneys in Mueller’s team haven’t thought about how to deal with this situation. I bet it’s a total nonissue.

 

[Stokely]

So, since Trump himself cant fire Meuller, only Rod Rosenstein, who Trump nominated, can, youre saying Trump will somehow find cause to fire Rosenstein, then nominate someone else who will then fire Meuller?

Sheesh. And they say Repubs live in fantasy land.

You do realize that just about this exact "fantastic" thing has happened in our history, right?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this is the Saturday Night Massacre that brought down Nixon.

Nobody is saying Trump can *directly* fire Mueller, only that he can make it happen by firing people that *can* directly Mueller until he gets one that will do it. This is still "Trump firing Mueller" at the end of the day.

 

[fskimospy]

You do realize that just about this exact "fantastic" thing has happened in our history, right?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this is the Saturday Night Massacre that brought down Nixon.

Nobody is saying Trump can *directly* fire Mueller, only that he can make it happen by firing people that *can* directly Mueller until he gets one that will do it. This is still "Trump firing Mueller" at the end of the day.

I am saying he can fire him directly. All he has to do is issue an executive order saying ‘the authority to fire Mueller now lies with the president. Also, he’s fired.’

 

[Jhhnn]

Don’t read too much into this. This is a pretty limited case - the application of 4th amendment protections to a transition team (sort of public/sort of private) who may or may not have waived protections (we certainly don’t know the specifics) by using GSA services.

Ignoring the facts, I highly doubt the competent attorneys in Mueller’s team haven’t thought about how to deal with this situation. I bet it’s a total nonissue.

Protections were obviously waived whether the transition team realized it or not. Being oblivious to the rules doesn't mean you don't have to live by them. Lack of due diligence has consequences.

Buried somewhere in federal regulations are the rules for using .gov servers. If the transition team did not receive an exception in writing then they're subject to the same rules as everybody else. It's a no-brainer.

 

[blackangst1]

No, they don't. From the first 'answer' paragraph: (bolding mine)


Trump can order that regulation repealed today if he wants. It's a DOJ regulation issued by the attorney general, meaning Trump can override it at any time. This might (SHOULD) lead to Trump's impeachment, but it's something he could do.

Is it possible? Sure, I guess. Even though Trump has stated several times he wont. Would it stand SCOTUS muster? Doesnt appear it would.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...at-least-not-directly/?utm_term=.3febfc1ad20d

 

[Puffnstuff]

Is it possible? Sure, I guess. Even though Trump has stated several times he wont. Would it stand SCOTUS muster? Doesnt appear it would.

Trumproast lies through is teeth often saying one thing then turning right around and doing the opposite. Besides that there's already a covert movement underway by republitards to undermine Mueller's investigation.

 

[fskimospy]

Is it possible? Sure, I guess. Even though Trump has stated several times he wont. Would it stand SCOTUS muster? Doesnt appear it would.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...at-least-not-directly/?utm_term=.3febfc1ad20d

While I agree after reading a bit more it's less clear than I thought, I think that Lawfare gives a more evenhanded (and more explicitly law based) appraisal of the situation:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/could-trump-remove-special-counsel-robert-mueller-lessons-watergate

With this in mind it still seems fairly likely Trump can fire Mueller himself if he so chooses.

 

[interchange]

Trump finds ways to do things that shouldn't be legal or at least kosher. Someone will have to challenge him to stop if he chooses to fire Mueller (one way or another).