[Rumor/Speculation] GTX Titan X 12GB vs R9 390X 4GB vs Unknown GM200 GPU

[Silverforce11]

Digest what? from sources that supposedly had all the cards in their hands and tested all 20+ games with drivers? The only leaks that Id consider fact are HBM, some of its spec like being 4GB (thats all they can fit atm!) and the AIO cooling solution.

Disappointment is a function of expectation.

Aren't we all here to discuss these rumors and leaks? If you choose to ignore it, why jump in and dis on an un-released product? :/ Why even add your own assumptions if these rumors & leaks disinterests you so?

If you want to talk about the potential of a 50% leap in efficiency, you can speculate as to how AMD achieves that, whether its beyond them or not etc.

 

[Creig]

Maybe I've gotten a bit jaded over the years from so many faked benchmarks being "released" prior to a new video card launch, but it's also made me a bit more cautious.

First of all, is it even possible for one person to have their hands on three unreleased Nvidia video cards and one unreleased AMD card? And have that many other cards simply lying around to benchmark on? That person would have to be extremely well connected.

Secondly, the chart references AMD Catalyst V15. Can this same person who can so easily get his hands on so much incredible hardware also somehow manage to get unreleased drivers as well?

Third, from a technical standpoint. The 295X2 is shown having a maximum GPU clock of 1007 MHz and 1008 MHz. But I seem to remember from the 295X2 reviews that it ran at a steady 1018 MHz during all testing/gaming. Could this point to this being possibly another fake chart?

I'm not saying the numbers aren't necessarily true, just being cautious.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

And that would make you happy because you dislike Nvidia?
Good that there are many posters here without that kind of emotional attachment and childish attitude.

Projecting much? A successful 390x forces NVidia to provide a cheaper/better product to compete, assuming of course they can't simply PR their way out of being behind (which AMD often makes exceedingly easy).

Secondly, the chart references AMD Catalyst V15. Can this same person who can so easily get his hands on so much incredible hardware also somehow manage to get unreleased drivers as well?

A small feat for someone who got their hands on three unreleased products, including as of yet unseen high end 3XX and GM200. The TitanX is at least out there somewhere.

 

[MeldarthX]

Projecting much? A successful 390x forces NVidia to provide a cheaper/better product to compete, assuming of course they can't simply PR their way out of being behind (which AMD often makes exceedingly easy).



A small feat for someone who got their hands on three unreleased products, including as of yet unseen high end 3XX and GM200. The TitanX is at least out there somewhere.

there is a V15; catalist driver......its for win 10 technically its 15.2 knowing is half the battle

 

[Cloudfire777]

Maybe I've gotten a bit jaded over the years from so many faked benchmarks being "released" prior to a new video card launch, but it's also made me a bit more cautious.

Fair enough. I would take this leak with some salt yes.

First of all, is it even possible for one person to have their hands on three unreleased Nvidia video cards and one unreleased AMD card? And have that many other cards simply lying around to benchmark on? That person would have to be extremely well connected.

They only need access to R9 390X and GTX Titan X. Both of these cards are right around the corner. A reviewer could have access to both of these cards right now. The cut down GM200 could be an estimation if the leaker have the specs for this GPU. Not difficult finding an approx performance with that.

Also most of the other cards is most likely from earlier tests. Not tested at the same time.

Secondly, the chart references AMD Catalyst V15. Can this same person who can so easily get his hands on so much incredible hardware also somehow manage to get unreleased drivers as well?

Reviewers get unreleased drivers that will be launched with the new hardware. Testing the new cards with older drivers not optimized for the new cards wouldnt make much sense.

Third, from a technical standpoint. The 295X2 is shown having a maximum GPU clock of 1007 MHz and 1008 MHz. But I seem to remember from the 295X2 reviews that it ran at a steady 1018 MHz during all testing/gaming. Could this point to this being possibly another fake chart?

Or sloppy job making this chart. Who knows

I'm not saying the numbers aren't necessarily true, just being cautious.

Yep, could absolutely be fake. Nobody knows. Thats what make rumors a bit tricky

 

[exar333]

Keep in mind that often purchasers of high-end GPUs buy 2-3 of them. The AIO will be a pain for CF configurations, as 2-3 will easily take-up case-fan slots that could be used otherwise. I am not 'against' AIO coolers, but I do think they are a niche offering. AMD should offer that along with a traditional slot cooler IMHO.

 

[exar333]

Eh you don't need two interposers; you can make the interposer whatever size you want ie up to 1200mm+ *its not going to happen because dealing with failure rate etc and price* but AMD are not limited by interposer size.....anyone tries to say otherwise hasn't read the white papers...

According to sources, the one AMD is using is limited to 4GB. Not official, but thats what has been reported at least.

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/36995-amd-fiji-hbm-limited-to-4gb-stacked-memory

 

[therealnickdanger]

Projecting much? A successful 390x forces NVidia to provide a cheaper/better product to compete, assuming of course they can't simply PR their way out of being behind (which AMD often makes exceedingly easy).

QFT

I have no personal feelings for my products, I just want the best possible performance (raw power, regardless of wattage/heat) for the cheapest possible price (preferably under $500). If Fiji lives up to this rumored performance level AND can be in the $500-600 range (current 980 range), it would be a massive boon to the GPU industry. If that happens and it throws NVIDIA into a pricing tailspin, it's not because I like or dislike any one company, it's because I want to see better technology come out for less money. It's pretty simple.

If NVIDIA wants to sell the TitanX for over a grand and people are willing to buy it - who am I to stop them? Likewise, if Fiji does actually meet/beat TitanX and they price it higher than TitanX... well then it's not the product for me... but I doubt that would happen given the history of TitanZ vs R295X2.

 

[Kenmitch]

I never beat on the AMD train, sorry.

Also, i dont think your cheerleading is appropriate in this case. There is no reason at all RS should single out 980 owners or state that it is somehow too bad for them they bought one. How can anyone gloat about a card loosing its value when it hasn't even lost its value? Are you serious?
There are far better examples of cards that actually really did loose their value in 6 months, and the 980 is not one of them. It is completely unfit and crazy that this is being pushed as some drawback when it hasn't even lost its value at all up and to this point. Maybe you just don't understand the conversation and just cheer happy.

By they way, if you want to contest my statements or my view on this, I openly invite you. But I think you should refrain from talking about me

Maybe Russian read your rant about the 980? You were somewhat displeased with your return decision/options....Just saying.

Looking forward to the release of these cards to see how they really stack up.

Still trying to figure out the AIO hate.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

there is a V15; catalist driver......its for win 10 technically its 15.2 knowing is half the battle

I know Win10 has the 15.x AMD drivers. They're riddled with issues and I very much doubt anyone would bench anything on Win10 in it's current form anyway.

 

[Kenmitch]

I know Win10 has the 15.x AMD drivers. They're riddled with issues and I very much doubt anyone would bench anything on Win10 in it's current form anyway.

Based on your statement the speculated performance could be even greater?

Some solid leaks would be nice about now.

 

[exar333]

Maybe Russian read your rant about the 980? You were somewhat displeased with your return decision/options....Just saying.

Looking forward to the release of these cards to see how they really stack up.

Still trying to figure out the AIO hate.

It is not 'hate' but not ideal either.

Take an 'average user' with money to burn. He has an Alienware Area51 Desktop with 'last gen' GPUs. How will he/she fit 2x 390x GPUs with AIB coolers? They will just opt for NV's options, or maybe not even be aware of them because their OEM only advertises upgrades that work in that case.

2nd example. System builder has a SLI/CF build today. They are already using their case fan slots. Now they have to choose to remove those, and increase internal temps (maybe that impacts CPU OC?) or go with the NV option without AIB coolers.

I know these are not ALL examples, but when you are fighting for marketshare (and AMD IS fighting for marketshare) the last thing you want is to have your buyers jump through hoops to use your products, or limit your audience.

I'm pretty sure AMD will release a GREAT AIB cooler card. The GTX 295X was a VERY good card, but not a 'mass market' SKU. Just saying...

 

[dacostafilipe]

It may not be the case for most people, but if I have to buy a new case because the old is to small (or not flexible enough) then I do it.

Was the main reason I got the Obsidian 350, the 290X and the H80i dit not fit in my LianLi.

Why should I not invest 70€ in a case to fit my 420€ GPU and 90€ CPU Cooler?

After seeing how great my Corsair works, my next GPU will have an AIO cooler ... but having an 290X and an 970, I dont intend to switch in the near future

 

[boxleitnerb]

Projecting much? A successful 390x forces NVidia to provide a cheaper/better product to compete, assuming of course they can't simply PR their way out of being behind (which AMD often makes exceedingly easy.

I'm not projecting anything and I like lower prices as well - I just dislike spitefulness which some here obviously feel.

 

[B-Riz]

It is not 'hate' but not ideal either.

Take an 'average user' with money to burn. He has an Alienware Area51 Desktop with 'last gen' GPUs. How will he/she fit 2x 390x GPUs with AIB coolers? They will just opt for NV's options, or maybe not even be aware of them because their OEM only advertises upgrades that work in that case.

2nd example. System builder has a SLI/CF build today. They are already using their case fan slots. Now they have to choose to remove those, and increase internal temps (maybe that impacts CPU OC?) or go with the NV option without AIB coolers.

I know these are not ALL examples, but when you are fighting for marketshare (and AMD IS fighting for marketshare) the last thing you want is to have your buyers jump through hoops to use your products, or limit your audience.

I'm pretty sure AMD will release a GREAT AIB cooler card. The GTX 295X was a VERY good card, but not a 'mass market' SKU. Just saying...

The 1st example is flawed; odds are that is the kind of consumer that will just wait and buy another pre-built and not upgrade video cards.

2nd example is ??? If you are putting together a system from scratch, you get a case for what you want to put in it. If you have good parts and a limited case, you get a nicer case.

I am tired of all these BS examples about where CLC AIO will not work.

Of course they will not work, the person looking at the product should know that.

You will just end up looking for a product that does work for your intended case.

 

[Udgnim]

It is not 'hate' but not ideal either.

Take an 'average user' with money to burn. He has an Alienware Area51 Desktop with 'last gen' GPUs. How will he/she fit 2x 390x GPUs with AIB coolers? They will just opt for NV's options, or maybe not even be aware of them because their OEM only advertises upgrades that work in that case.

if they bought an A51 PC, then they are likely the type of person that likes to play games but isn't such an avid fan that it spills over into system building. in that case, marketing (Nvidia) will likely win out.

2nd example. System builder has a SLI/CF build today. They are already using their case fan slots. Now they have to choose to remove those, and increase internal temps (maybe that impacts CPU OC?) or go with the NV option without AIB coolers.

I'm certain AIBs will create fan cooled versions of the 390X. The water cooled 390x versions should help with decreasing internal PC temps since they should be placed on exhaust ports, and if someone is doing a SLI/CF, then they are more likely to be using a full tower case where there should be plenty of exhaust ports to choose from. I can see it becoming more of a problem if we're trying to also water cool the CPU or go 3-4 xfire.

I know these are not ALL examples, but when you are fighting for marketshare (and AMD IS fighting for marketshare) the last thing you want is to have your buyers jump through hoops to use your products, or limit your audience.

I'm pretty sure AMD will release a GREAT AIB cooler card. The GTX 295X was a VERY good card, but not a 'mass market' SKU. Just saying...

for a single 390X GPU, I don't think it should be too difficult to incorporate the water cooled exhaust in a mid tower case. bigger issue is whether people are comfortable with potential leaks from the water cooled solution.

either way, I'm certain AIBs will release fan cooled versions of 390X

 

[garagisti]

I'm not projecting anything and I like lower prices as well - I just dislike spitefulness which some here obviously feel.

It is not spiteful when you have dead graphic cards owing to poor hardware, bumpty bump
It is not spiteful when you have dead graphic cards owing to drivers, nofan
It is not spiteful when they lie to you about specification, misssssssstake

By the way, what is wrong with complaining about company which charges you $200 more for a 980 which gives 10% more performance on 290x?

Keep in mind that often purchasers of high-end GPUs buy 2-3 of them. The AIO will be a pain for CF configurations, as 2-3 will easily take-up case-fan slots that could be used otherwise. I am not 'against' AIO coolers, but I do think they are a niche offering. AMD should offer that along with a traditional slot cooler IMHO.

This is reference cooler. There will be custom solutions more than likely as was the case with the 295x2 even. You already have very good coolers keeping with 970 for temps, like vaporx on 290x. I don't see a reason why will they not offer the same, if Sapphire thinks it has a market.

 

[Techhog]

And that would make you happy because you dislike Nvidia?
Good that there are many posters here without that kind of emotional attachment and childish attitude.

Good joke 10/10. Almost everyone here is like that for one of the companies. In fact, if you're denying it it most likely means that you're one of them...

Even so, it's better for everyone if AMD takes the crown, because competition can only be good for us as consumers.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

It is not 'hate' but not ideal either.

Take an 'average user' with money to burn. He has an Alienware Area51 Desktop with 'last gen' GPUs. How will he/she fit 2x 390x GPUs with AIB coolers? They will just opt for NV's options, or maybe not even be aware of them because their OEM only advertises upgrades that work in that case.

2nd example. System builder has a SLI/CF build today. They are already using their case fan slots. Now they have to choose to remove those, and increase internal temps (maybe that impacts CPU OC?) or go with the NV option without AIB coolers.

I know these are not ALL examples, but when you are fighting for marketshare (and AMD IS fighting for marketshare) the last thing you want is to have your buyers jump through hoops to use your products, or limit your audience.

I'm pretty sure AMD will release a GREAT AIB cooler card. The GTX 295X was a VERY good card, but not a 'mass market' SKU. Just saying...

I dont think you have thought this post through. The clc cooler will lower your internal case temps even if you plug all your 120mm holes. You just set your gpus rad fans up to exhaust and you are instantly dumping all that heat directly outside and still exhausting heat from other components out through your rad fans. The temperature of the liquid in the loops will hardly be raised by this at all.

It would still be a good idea to have more intake fans then exhausts just to keep positive pressure, but the only real side effect is dust in your case.

 

[exar333]

Initial impressions matter. Period. Does an AIO convey a picture of good engineering or desperation because it runs 'so hot'? What I, or you, may think is not necessarily what 'Joe six-pack GPU buyer' thinks.

It IS more of a hassle to install vs. a normal, dual-slot card. This cannot be disputed. Not saying it is 'difficult' but requires some planning and experimentation.

If this IS the reference card, remember how that initial impression hurt the 290x as hot, throttling. How will this card be received? I don't know, but the AIO could play into that.

For those nick-picking me....I AM considering this card. It looks great. Just trying to get y'all to understand not everyone thinks like the AT crowd....marketing matters and opinions (however flawed) matter too.

Edit: Remember - GPU consumers are not always rational. Just look at the past 2 years and tell me people have been rational and logical in their choices. NV understands this. I hope AMD does as well.

 

[Headfoot]

AMD copped major flak for the horrible reference cooler performance for many generations now. It really IS time for them to fix that.

I think it's hiarlious. The same people who relentlessly bash on AMD because the 290 cooler was terrible are the same people complaining that upgrading to the current most-effective cooling system, short of external phase change, is overkill

Which is it?

It's pretty simple.
1) Do you have an open 120mm slot?
2) If yes, your card is ridiculously well cooled

Done. I don't complain aftermarket air coolers take up 2 slots. I'd rather that than some dust buster 8800GT single slot noisemaker.

Making a stink about a water cooled card is finding a molehill to make into a mountain -- likely for personal reasons completely unrelated to the actual cost or engineering conclusions related to watercooling.

Are you enthusiasts or not?

 

[Vesku]

Initial impressions matter. Period. Does an AIO convey a picture of good engineering or desperation because it runs 'so hot'? What I, or you, may think is not necessarily what 'Joe six-pack GPU buyer' thinks.

It IS more of a hassle to install vs. a normal, dual-slot card. This cannot be disputed. Not saying it is 'difficult' but requires some planning and experimentation.

If this IS the reference card, remember how that initial impression hurt the 290x as hot, throttling. How will this card be received? I don't know, but the AIO could play into that.

For those nick-picking me....I AM considering this card. It looks great. Just trying to get y'all to understand not everyone thinks like the AT crowd....marketing matters and opinions (however flawed) matter too.

Edit: Remember - GPU consumers are not always rational. Just look at the past 2 years and tell me people have been rational and logical in their choices. NV understands this. I hope AMD does as well.

Considering the advertising and goodwill behind CPU AIO CLC I don't see a reason for mass aversion to GPU versions. 295X2's cooling solution was received well, it would be puzzling if reviews focused on the CLC aspect of any future GPU cooling rather than on thermals and noise other than "you'll need to make sure your case can properly mount the radiator(s)."

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I just hope that they tie in the vrms on the loops. That would be amazing, but highly unlikely as costs would skyrocket.

 

[3DVagabond]

Think about what? Im not even talking about the mounting. But you bring up a good point. Mounting on top of the compatibility issues. Lets go back to the antec solo case example. Put the rad at the exhaust and voila. The top part is being blocked by the power supply.. This is just but one of many cases out there that require too much user intervention especially in this day and age.

I own a GK110 card. What throttling? Actually maybe anyone here with a GK110 card can have their say. And its abit sad that in your mind AMD can't do a better job than nVIDIA. Why not?

Different drivers, memory ICs, clocks and cooling solution.. but the same GPU die. So logically thinking.. they've designed this for many different applications. Not just for gaming. Or else why have such burdensome DP capabilities built in? You'd save many transistors i.e. die space as well as alot of power consumption!

Firstly where are you seeing $29.99 coolers? Id be sort of worried if thats the type of AIO cooler they are using. And buying from who? off the shelf? and then putting their logo on it? It'd be asking for legal trouble. I'd actually laugh if that was the case!

What they've most likely done is, gone to one of the AIO manufacturers (e.g. asetek), cut a deal with them with supplying the appropriate AIO cooler design with requirements (need to dissiapte xW, fan choice, 120mm only etc) as their reference cooling solution for their GPU in return for $. Its not as simple as you may think it is. Licensing is another option which gives alot more flexibility in return for cost because now you have more control over its design/manufacturability. Royalties I only brought up because theres alot of patents involved even in AIO coolers. Reason why switftech got slammed by asetek sometime ago.

I'm not going to repeat everything again, just for you to do the same. You understand what I've said, just fine I'm sure. Cheers.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Maybe I've gotten a bit jaded over the years from so many faked benchmarks being "released" prior to a new video card launch, but it's also made me a bit more cautious.

First of all, is it even possible for one person to have their hands on three unreleased Nvidia video cards and one unreleased AMD card? And have that many other cards simply lying around to benchmark on? That person would have to be extremely well connected.

AAA game developers would have access to all those cards without problems, especially if it is a game that is going to push the boundaries. For instance, I believe CIG (the developers of Star Citizen) were given access to several cards by both Nvidia and AMD, and I am sure that there are other developers out there who are in the same situation, especially game engine developers like Unity, Cryengine, etc., so that their engines could have support for new card features before the cards were in the hands of consumers (so that consumers would have a reason to get the new cards).

Secondly, the chart references AMD Catalyst V15. Can this same person who can so easily get his hands on so much incredible hardware also somehow manage to get unreleased drivers as well?

See my answer to the first question. Game developers have access to those cards already and would also have access to the drivers, as again, the graphics card makers want their cards to work with the existing and new games, so that consumers have something to run that really takes advantage of the new hardware coming out. Both Nvidia and AMD know it takes years to develop a game, and work closely with many different developers so that they have access to information and hardware for the hardware that should be available at the time of the games release. This typically means getting unreleased hardware into the game devs hands months before the hardware is on the market so that the devs can take advantage of that hardware in their code.

Third, from a technical standpoint. The 295X2 is shown having a maximum GPU clock of 1007 MHz and 1008 MHz. But I seem to remember from the 295X2 reviews that it ran at a steady 1018 MHz during all testing/gaming. Could this point to this being possibly another fake chart?

I'm not saying the numbers aren't necessarily true, just being cautious.

Absolutely. This part I will agree with entirely. However, the other issues you raised are not really an issue and are easily met in the scenario that I stated. I am sure NDA's may have been breached by releasing this kind of information, but there are plenty of places that would have unreleased/prototype next gen cards in their hands by now if assuming a consumer release date in the next 3-6 months.