Rumor of possible yield problems with the G71

[Munky]

Obviously, we should take this rumor with a grain of salt, just like any other rumor. But it really makes no sence to me why Nv would release a rehashed 6-series (6800gs) instead of a new midrange 7-series last fall, unless the 90nm 7-series were not ready. The 7800's have been out since last summer, and they needed a midange card to fill in the gap, especially during the holiday season. The 6800gs is the only card they have that fits that price point nicely, because the 6800gt is still well over $200, and the 6600gt and 6800 are competing with a newer x1600xt and a faster x800gto. This doesnt mean that the problem is necessarily related to the 90nm transition, it could be that they learned what Ati was up to with their 3:1 pixel shader increase, and had to re-adjust the specs on their cards accordingly, but somehow I dont think launching the rest of the 7-series line up so late was part of their original plan.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Tom
______________________________________________________________
mid range:
7600GT (replaces 6800GS)
~600/~1400 128bit 128/256 mb GDDR3
12 pipelines (12 ROPs?)
MSRP $249

7600GS (A bit more cheaper mid range variant)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8 pipelines (8 ROPs)
MSRP $199
________________________________________________________________


Why would anyone pay $250 for a 12 pipe card or $200 for an 8 pipe card ?

Is there something new about these cards that justifies those prices ?

The X1600XT has an MSRP of $249 and is soon to be replaced with a X1700.
The 6600GT had an MSRP of $249 but now it replaced the 6800GS.

The 7600GT will probably murder a 6600GT and be faster than the 6800GS or it will make no sense to release the product.

I do believe the 7800 series will be discontinued. For a fact the X1600XT is a 4 pipe card.

I thought 6600GT sold for about $125 ? Not $250.

In the real world 7800GT sells for under $300, so I repeat my question about why anyone would pay $250 for a 7600GT ?

Consumers shouldn't accept the new trend, been going on for a year or two, of creating crippled cards for the middle tier pricing, instead of the old way of selling mature, but full featured products for the middle tier of pricing. At least it's my perception that something along those lines is happening.

What do you think ?

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: munky
Obviously, we should take this rumor with a grain of salt, just like any other rumor. But it really makes no sence to me why Nv would release a rehashed 6-series (6800gs) instead of a new midrange 7-series last fall, unless the 90nm 7-series were not ready. The 7800's have been out since last summer, and they needed a midange card to fill in the gap, especially during the holiday season. The 6800gs is the only card they have that fits that price point nicely, because the 6800gt is still well over $200, and the 6600gt and 6800 are competing with a newer x1600xt and a faster x800gto. This doesnt mean that the problem is necessarily related to the 90nm transition, it could be that they learned what Ati was up to with their 3:1 pixel shader increase, and had to re-adjust the specs on their cards accordingly, but somehow I dont think launching the rest of the 7-series line up so late was part of their original plan.

Youv'e conveniently forgotten about the 7300, it would seem.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Real estate takes the cake in terms of inflation insanity.

Take a look at the MLS listings in places like Bozeman, Montana or Sedona, Arizona, out in the middle of nowhere. You can't even buy a trailer for less than $200,000. I saw a 1200 sqft house on a 1/4 acre selling for $900,000.

Relatively speaking, video cards are not out of line when you look at things like real estate, college tuition, health insurance, and car prices. And yet, since 1973, real wages adjusted for inflation have actually been falling. Bubble time.

 

[Cookie Monster]

MSRP. The MSRP of the 6600GT was always $249 before the 6800GS came out. However the street price was 100+ dollars below the MSRP.

To Munky: Also i think NV wants to get rid of as many nv4x chips as possible. Hence the recent news of XFX making a deal with NV to sell as many 6800XT(256bit 256mb GDDR3) they can at 125 USD. Not to mention the 6800GS. I think NV didnt even need to release the mid range 7 series back then.

Soon enough the 6600/6200 series will disappear as their PCBs will be used for the G72.
While the 7600GT takes over the 6800GS.

One of the reason Ati needed to release low to high end X1 products was because there last gen had no S.M 3.0 cards. But for NV it was different.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: munky
Obviously, we should take this rumor with a grain of salt, just like any other rumor. But it really makes no sence to me why Nv would release a rehashed 6-series (6800gs) instead of a new midrange 7-series last fall, unless the 90nm 7-series were not ready. The 7800's have been out since last summer, and they needed a midange card to fill in the gap, especially during the holiday season. The 6800gs is the only card they have that fits that price point nicely, because the 6800gt is still well over $200, and the 6600gt and 6800 are competing with a newer x1600xt and a faster x800gto. This doesnt mean that the problem is necessarily related to the 90nm transition, it could be that they learned what Ati was up to with their 3:1 pixel shader increase, and had to re-adjust the specs on their cards accordingly, but somehow I dont think launching the rest of the 7-series line up so late was part of their original plan.

Business does not always make sense. In fact, it seldom does.

Munky, sorry for this OT for a sec, but would everyone mind just ignoring Bouzouki? This thread was going "ok" until he showed up with that bait post. /thanks

 

[cronic]

i find it funny how everyone *itches about the price of uber video cards today. This is nothing new. uber cards have always been higher than the mainstream product. people used to *itch about how high the 9800xt is. Cry me a river. If you don't want to pay it buy the second or thrid best card out. The entire video card industry had an awaking about a year ago when they realized that people (myself includded unfortunantly) would pay 800-1000.00 for pci-e 6800 ultras. If people are willing to pay that kind of money they are defintly going to charge it until the early adopters have bought all they want and then sales drop off. they will then lower the prices and gain more sales. What people fail to realize is that the early adopters make it possible for the prices to fall where everyone can enjoy it. which makes it even more interesting that ati is selling the 1900xt so "cheap". it makes me agree with rollo that they are tring to sale as many as possible before g71 comes out and beats it by quite a large margin. only time will tell

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: munky
Obviously, we should take this rumor with a grain of salt, just like any other rumor. But it really makes no sence to me why Nv would release a rehashed 6-series (6800gs) instead of a new midrange 7-series last fall, unless the 90nm 7-series were not ready. The 7800's have been out since last summer, and they needed a midange card to fill in the gap, especially during the holiday season. The 6800gs is the only card they have that fits that price point nicely, because the 6800gt is still well over $200, and the 6600gt and 6800 are competing with a newer x1600xt and a faster x800gto. This doesnt mean that the problem is necessarily related to the 90nm transition, it could be that they learned what Ati was up to with their 3:1 pixel shader increase, and had to re-adjust the specs on their cards accordingly, but somehow I dont think launching the rest of the 7-series line up so late was part of their original plan.

Youv'e conveniently forgotten about the 7300, it would seem.

I dont think the 7300 is a big deal. I know it's 90nm, but they're sticking with 4 pipes and turbocache - hardly a risky venture, and I'm guessing most of those would be sold to the average Joe in his next Dell, who wouldnt even care how well the card stacks up to the competition. I havent heard how well they're selling over in Asia right now, but so far the only 90nm parts from Nv have been a budget card and integrated gfx.

 

[Ronin]

That's a good way to get a feel for the process change, though, wouldn't you think? Personally, I think that's exactly what's going to allow nVIDIA a much easier transition to 90nm than the one ATi had to deal with.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ronin
That's a good way to get a feel for the process change, though, wouldn't you think? Personally, I think that's exactly what's going to allow nVIDIA a much easier transition to 90nm than the one ATi had to deal with.

That's the way ATI used to do it as well, wasn't the 9600XT their first move on a die shrink?

 

[schtuga]

Originally posted by: munky
Obviously, we should take this rumor with a grain of salt, just like any other rumor. But it really makes no sence to me why Nv would release a rehashed 6-series (6800gs) instead of a new midrange 7-series last fall, unless the 90nm 7-series were not ready. The 7800's have been out since last summer, and they needed a midange card to fill in the gap, especially during the holiday season. The 6800gs is the only card they have that fits that price point nicely, because the 6800gt is still well over $200, and the 6600gt and 6800 are competing with a newer x1600xt and a faster x800gto. This doesnt mean that the problem is necessarily related to the 90nm transition, it could be that they learned what Ati was up to with their 3:1 pixel shader increase, and had to re-adjust the specs on their cards accordingly, but somehow I dont think launching the rest of the 7-series line up so late was part of their original plan.

I'm wondering too.

With the price performance the X1900XT has come out at,you would at least think we would suddenly hear some "leaked" information.

Either they are having problems,or they are planning for a massive launch.

A massive launch still wouldn't explain why we aren't hearing anything.

Maybe they decided on some extra tweaks.But you can be sure ,they didn't plan on much time between the R580 and the G71.Any delays certainly can't mean things are going better than expected.

 

[Matt2]

First of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

HDR+AA is jsut a tech showcase. Anyone buying this card for HDR+AA in FUTURE games is going to sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely that X1900XT/X will be able to run any future game with HDR+AA with any kind of IQ settings or high resolution.

This is fact people. IT's going to be at least six months before HDR+AA becomes mainstream and by then, we'll need R590 to run HDR+AA at high resolutions. This is the same situation as SM 3.0 and HDR with the 6800 series and to some extent the 7800 series. ATI fans skipped the 6800 series and 7800 series because the features weren't "useful".

Well, I hope you enjoy beating Far Cry for the 80th time.

Please, dont get me wrong, the X1900XT is great card and if I didnt already have GT SLI I would definately pick one up. I jsut think the whole HDR+AA issue is being blown way out of proportion for how "useful" it is right now.

Secondly, and I'm sorry but I have to say this... I have played BF2, beaten FEAR, COD2, Far Cry, Starship Troopers and played countless older games since I moved from an X800XL to GT SLI and I swear on my grave that I ahve never seen texture shimmering. I'm not saying it's not there, but I just haven't seen it. The IQ on my GTs is on par with my X800XL as far as I'm concerned with the same settings, only difference is that i can play with settings through the roof compared to my X800XL. That being said, the IQ in my games has gone up dramatically after switching to Nvidia.

That being said, I must agree with Rollo that IQ is very subjective. If you see the shimmering and can't stand Nvidia because of it, that's cool with me. Just dont preach it as a deal breaker.

 

[nRollo]

You can never play Far Cry enough years Matt2.

In 2011, be prepared for posts "When will nVidia fix the shadows on the gun in Far Cry?! Hey Far Cry is a GREAT game! I bought it in the checkout aisle at Stop n Go for $.39- and it came with a $.50 pack of gum!"

:laugh:

Anyway, your points are pretty good, but don't expect to convince anyone.

The war of the video cards is eternal.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

The troll strikes again.

I find it odd when I make a comment negative about Nvidia, you and your butt-buddy Rollo find so much offense.

Odd, I see Rollo making similer comments everyday.

I'm done with you, troll.

Go buy some of your hardware for once instead of leaching off your sources and posting pics on the internet, remember, your "l337 stack of video cards" and your 5 512 GTX's?

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

LOL. Nice.

 

[Drayvn]

Well if i counted and read right there's at least 10 games coming out this year with HDR in it. I know it isnt a lot. But UT2007 is in that list. Which means when that comes out about 30 or more games will be released with HDR already in it.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Munky, sorry for this OT for a sec, but would everyone mind just ignoring Bouzouki? This thread was going "ok" until he showed up with that bait post. /thanks

Yes, let's ignore him because he said something that painted Nvidia in a bad light. Let's see what he said originally:

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Looks like Nvidia is going down this quater.

First beat by the X1800XT, then they release a joke called the 512mb GTX which is difficult to find at a reasonable cost, they probably released it as a last minute desperate counter attack.

Then the X1900XT is brought into play, offering the best performance next to ATI's other card, the 1800XT.

Now we have yeild problems for Nvidia as they go into new 90nm territory as they try to pull off what they call the 7900 I believe.

Hopefully they can pull something strong, and not another 512mb GTX move. :laugh:

Hmm, sounds familiar. Ah yes, these are the same exact type of dire prediction all the Nvidia fans were making about ATI a couple months ago. Funny how things turn around. But now when it's Nvidia being dissed, we should all ignore the person as a troll.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Tim Sweeney did mention that UT2007 was optimised for 6/7 series. We will just have to see what happens.

But the fact is Epic (tim sweeney) and id software (well john carmack) are all prefering NV hardware (For whatever reasons but it means NV users will benfit from this). Some of the games coming up are Quake Wars ET, Prey, UT2007 plus many other games based on the doom3/unreal3 engine.

edit - to the previous post. Yield problems? its all rumours. Should be taken with a grain of salt. What if i tell you that 3 month ago, a driver for G71 was found even before the release of the 7800GTX 512mb.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Matt2
First of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

HDR+AA is jsut a tech showcase. Anyone buying this card for HDR+AA in FUTURE games is going to sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely that X1900XT/X will be able to run any future game with HDR+AA with any kind of IQ settings or high resolution.

This is fact people. IT's going to be at least six months before HDR+AA becomes mainstream and by then, we'll need R590 to run HDR+AA at high resolutions. This is the same situation as SM 3.0 and HDR with the 6800 series and to some extent the 7800 series. ATI fans skipped the 6800 series and 7800 series because the features weren't "useful".

I think you're wrong. Newer games coming out all seem to be including HDR. So we have the two features, AA and HDR, and it's not a huge feat to tweak the code to allow the features to both work together as the ATI hardware allows.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Munky, sorry for this OT for a sec, but would everyone mind just ignoring Bouzouki? This thread was going "ok" until he showed up with that bait post. /thanks

Yes, let's ignore him because he said something that painted Nvidia in a bad light. Let's see what he said originally:

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Looks like Nvidia is going down this quater.

First beat by the X1800XT, then they release a joke called the 512mb GTX which is difficult to find at a reasonable cost, they probably released it as a last minute desperate counter attack.

Then the X1900XT is brought into play, offering the best performance next to ATI's other card, the 1800XT.

Now we have yeild problems for Nvidia as they go into new 90nm territory as they try to pull off what they call the 7900 I believe.

Hopefully they can pull something strong, and not another 512mb GTX move. :laugh:

Hmm, sounds familiar. Ah yes, these are the same exact type of dire prediction all the Nvidia fans were making about ATI a couple months ago. Funny how things turn around. But now when it's Nvidia being dissed, we should all ignore the person as a troll.

Morpheepoo. Anyone can see his post, as well as this one by you, were intended to bait. I'll ask the rest of the members to ignore you as well. bye bye now.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Tim Sweeney did mention that UT2007 was optimised for 6/7 series. We will just have to see what happens.

But the fact is Epic (tim sweeney) and id software (well john carmack) are all prefering NV hardware (For whatever reasons but it means NV users will benfit from this). Some of the games coming up are Quake Wars ET, Prey, UT2007 plus many other games based on the doom3/unreal3 engine.

edit - to the previous post. Yield problems? its all rumours. Should be taken with a grain of salt. What if i tell you that 3 month ago, a driver for G71 was found even before the release of the 7800GTX 512mb.

they will just think that ATi is future and we all have to take its way!! this forum has lots of ATi-fans, and they will just explain it as they are future makers

 

[Cookie Monster]

Im just surprised NVs two year old tech is still keeping up. Anyways, im eagerly anticipating QW:ET. It looks like the BF2 killer.

edit- just like how the R300 tech kepted up with the new and shiny nv40 back 2 years ago.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Matt2
First of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

HDR+AA is jsut a tech showcase. Anyone buying this card for HDR+AA in FUTURE games is going to sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely that X1900XT/X will be able to run any future game with HDR+AA with any kind of IQ settings or high resolution.

This is fact people. IT's going to be at least six months before HDR+AA becomes mainstream and by then, we'll need R590 to run HDR+AA at high resolutions. This is the same situation as SM 3.0 and HDR with the 6800 series and to some extent the 7800 series. ATI fans skipped the 6800 series and 7800 series because the features weren't "useful".

I think you're wrong. Newer games coming out all seem to be including HDR. So we have the two features, AA and HDR, and it's not a huge feat to tweak the code to allow the features to both work together as the ATI hardware allows.

Once again you have completely missed the entire point of a post.

The fact that new games are coming out with HDR is not in question. The question is whether or not the X1900XT/X and it's HDR+AA capability will be able to keep up with new games at high resolution and all the eye candy.

X1900XTX review

FEAR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF

X1900XTX------ 48 fps average/ 25fps minimum

48 fps? Now throw HDR into the mix and you have more than likely sucessfully brought your "future-proof" card to its knees.

So, again, the point that you completely missed is that NEW HDR games such as UT2007 and other HDR enabled games are not going to run very well on the X1900XTX with AA, max IQ settings and AF and at high resolutions. That thought is purely wishful thinking.

So when all those new games come out with HDR, X1900XT/X owners are likely going to have to choose between HDR+AA or high resolutions. For CRT owners who game high res, not a good tradeoff. What about those with high res LCDs??? Screwed.

By the time high res, max IQ and HDR+AA is possible, we're going to be looking at G80/R600 and the obsolecense of your "future-proof" card

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Anyways, im eagerly anticipating QW:ET. It looks like the BF2 killer.

No offense, but I don't think you understand the appeal of BF2 to many gamers. BF2 is a reality-based military game. Quake Wars is futuristic sci-fi type stuff.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Anyways, im eagerly anticipating QW:ET. It looks like the BF2 killer.

No offense, but I don't think you understand the appeal of BF2 to many gamers. BF2 is a reality-based military game. Quake Wars is futuristic sci-fi based military game.

Edited.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Matt2
First of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

HDR+AA is jsut a tech showcase. Anyone buying this card for HDR+AA in FUTURE games is going to sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely that X1900XT/X will be able to run any future game with HDR+AA with any kind of IQ settings or high resolution.

This is fact people. IT's going to be at least six months before HDR+AA becomes mainstream and by then, we'll need R590 to run HDR+AA at high resolutions. This is the same situation as SM 3.0 and HDR with the 6800 series and to some extent the 7800 series. ATI fans skipped the 6800 series and 7800 series because the features weren't "useful".

I think you're wrong. Newer games coming out all seem to be including HDR. So we have the two features, AA and HDR, and it's not a huge feat to tweak the code to allow the features to both work together as the ATI hardware allows.

Once again you have completely missed the entire point of a post.

The fact that new games are coming out with HDR is not in question. The question is whether or not the X1900XT/X and it's HDR+AA capability will be able to keep up with new games at high resolution and all the eye candy.

X1900XTX review

FEAR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF

X1900XTX------ 48 fps average/ 25fps minimum

48 fps? Now throw HDR into the mix and you have more than likely sucessfully brought your "future-proof" card to its knees.

So, again, the point that you completely missed is that NEW HDR games such as UT2007 and other HDR enabled games are not going to run very well on the X1900XTX with AA, max IQ settings and AF and at high resolutions. That thought is purely wishful thinking.

So when all those new games come out with HDR, X1900XT/X owners are likely going to have to choose between HDR+AA or high resolutions. For CRT owners who game high res, not a good tradeoff. What about those with high res LCDs??? Screwed.

By the time high res, max IQ and HDR+AA is possible, we're going to be looking at G80/R600 and the obsolecense of your "future-proof" card

Yeeeearrrgggg!
Stop talking sense!

Heh- I'm all for having the ability to check out cool new stuff, even at relatively low settings. (as with nV40 and HDR)

I don't think for the X1900XTX HDR+AA is going to be a deal maker or breaker, just a nice feature it's better to have than not again.