Rumor of possible yield problems with the G71

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
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76
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
If there were actually yield problems there would be a flood of midrange and low end cards based on the chips with bad quads.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Originally posted by: Acanthus
If there were actually yield problems there would be a flood of midrange and low end cards based on the chips with bad quads.

Would the now-abandoned 7800gs fit somewhere in that category?
 

the Chase

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2005
1,403
0
0
Yeah I was waiting to buy the 7600GT in October when they were supposed to come out until they were delayed until "next Spring"? Seemed kind of odd and I just thought Nvidia was milking their other cards out because of ATI's delays. But now I'm not so sure that they didn't have some problems with 90nm as well.

Edit: minimum flaming soon to follow..
 

golem

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
838
3
76
Originally posted by: munky
Originally posted by: Acanthus
If there were actually yield problems there would be a flood of midrange and low end cards based on the chips with bad quads.

Would the now-abandoned 7800gs fit somewhere in that category?

But if it's abandoned, wouldn't that mean they didn't have enuf failed chips?
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
This is my take so far.

Presuming 7800 series are discontinued.

High end:
7900GTX (The ultra high end monster)
~700/~1800 256bit 512mb GDDR3
32 pipelines
MSRP $649

7900GT (replaces the 7800GTX 256512mb with better yield, heat etc)
550/~1600 256bit 256/512 mb GDDR3
24 pipelines
MSRP $549

7900GS (Probably faster than the 7800GT depending how high clocked it is because of the 90nm lowk)
~550/~1200 256bit 256mb GDDR3
16 pipelines
MSRP $399

mid range:
7600GT (replaces 6800GS)
~600/~1400 128bit 128/256 mb GDDR3
12 pipelines (12 ROPs?)
MSRP $249

7600GS (A bit more cheaper mid range variant)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8 pipelines (8 ROPs)
MSRP $199

low end:
7300GT (Using 6600 based PCBs and replaces 6600GT)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8pipelines (4 ROPs)
MSRP $149

7300GS (TC 2.0 and using 6200 based PCBs)
550/800 64bit 32/64/128/256 mb GDDR2
4 pipelines
MSRP $99

7300LE (TC 2.0 and using 6200 based PCBs)
~350/~700 64bit DDR?
4 pipeline
MSRP $49

 

DrZoidberg

Member
Jul 10, 2005
171
0
0
i read somewhere that the more pipelines u have the less chance u have for high clocks for core.

For e.g. 6600GT is 500mhz standard, then u got the factory overclock versions at 550mhz.
The 6800GT with 16 pipelines is only 350mhz standard core clock, cause it was hard for nvidia to have 16 pipes at 500mhz during the g6x days... Tradeoff kinda like ddr2 has high bandwidth but tradeoff is slower timings, ddr1 has fast timings but less bandwidth, for video cards its many pipes = lower clock rates, less pipes = more chance for higher clocks

Thats why im slightly skeptical that nvidia can somehow have high clock rate and lots of pipelines and still have good yields. Its easy for nvidia to have 700mhz clock with 24 pipes, but harder to have 700mhz clock for 32 pipelines.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Thats because firstly NV didnt utilise low k. Secondly, the jump to 90nm is bigger than 130nm to 110nm.

All the refreshes are based on 90nm lowk meaning they can get signifcant clock gains. However we will see whether or not the 7900GTX is 32 pipe or 24 pipe or something else.
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,559
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: munky
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.



I'm betting that if the 7900 has 32 pipelines it will be overpriced at $750+ like the 512 MB GTX was and will be scarce. Initial hard launch will have some in quantity and people will praise nVidia (despite the high price) claiming victory over ATi and then stocks will fade out for awhile. Of course the nVidia PR machine will be in full effect so people and websites will ignore that fact. Now if it's still a 24 pipe part at 90nm, then I think nVidia will have it out in quantity and it should be sufficient to top the R580 in benchmarks that aren't too shader heavy but if it lacks HDR+AA and HQ AF, performance in yesterdays games and engines won't be enough to merit a purchase.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: munky
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.



I'm betting that if the 7900 has 32 pipelines it will be overpriced at $750+ like the 512 MB GTX was and will be scarce. Initial hard launch will have some in quantity and people will praise nVidia (despite the high price) claiming victory over ATi and then stocks will fade out for awhile. Of course the nVidia PR machine will be in full effect so people and websites will ignore that fact. Now if it's still a 24 pipe part at 90nm, then I think nVidia will have it out in quantity and it should be sufficient to top the R580 in benchmarks that aren't too shader heavy but if it lacks HDR+AA and HQ AF, performance in yesterdays games and engines won't be enough to merit a purchase.

It will lack HDR + AA still in EXR HDR titles.

I dont know what youre talking about with HQ AF, i have heard nothing about AF quality issues except for ATis AF that sometimes doesnt apply it to the full scene.

The entire rest of your post is heavy speculation, since both ATi and NV have their chips fabbed by the same handful of companies you can count on one hand, any process related problems would hit both of them equally hard (although they do admittedly use different manufacturing processes, even at the same gate widths).
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,559
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: munky
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.



I'm betting that if the 7900 has 32 pipelines it will be overpriced at $750+ like the 512 MB GTX was and will be scarce. Initial hard launch will have some in quantity and people will praise nVidia (despite the high price) claiming victory over ATi and then stocks will fade out for awhile. Of course the nVidia PR machine will be in full effect so people and websites will ignore that fact. Now if it's still a 24 pipe part at 90nm, then I think nVidia will have it out in quantity and it should be sufficient to top the R580 in benchmarks that aren't too shader heavy but if it lacks HDR+AA and HQ AF, performance in yesterdays games and engines won't be enough to merit a purchase.

It will lack HDR + AA still in EXR HDR titles.

I dont know what youre talking about with HQ AF, i have heard nothing about AF quality issues except for ATis AF that sometimes doesnt apply it to the full scene.

The entire rest of your post is heavy speculation, since both ATi and NV have their chips fabbed by the same handful of companies you can count on one hand, any process related problems would hit both of them equally hard (although they do admittedly use different manufacturing processes, even at the same gate widths).


Of course most of my post is speculation, this is a rumor thread or did you not read the title? As for AF, nVidia Quality AF is terrible and I say this with 5+ months of experience with the 7800 GTX and having posted videos to document this. But when I mentioned HQ AF I was referring to angle independent AF which nVidia does not have.
 

TSS

Senior member
Nov 14, 2005
227
0
0
yknow i'd figure its either going to be around 550mhz with 32 pipes or 650 mhz with 24 pipes... basicly they need to be only a bit faster then the 1900xtx, and higher clocks will do that just as well as more pipes and lower clocks. besides if the G71 is 32 pipes, they'll need something like 48 for the G80. cant have a card with less/equal pipes to the last generation now can ya?

in then end we'll see, cebit is still a good month away. we should hear something more about it between now and then.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: munky
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.



I'm betting that if the 7900 has 32 pipelines it will be overpriced at $750+ like the 512 MB GTX was and will be scarce. Initial hard launch will have some in quantity and people will praise nVidia (despite the high price) claiming victory over ATi and then stocks will fade out for awhile. Of course the nVidia PR machine will be in full effect so people and websites will ignore that fact. Now if it's still a 24 pipe part at 90nm, then I think nVidia will have it out in quantity and it should be sufficient to top the R580 in benchmarks that aren't too shader heavy but if it lacks HDR+AA and HQ AF, performance in yesterdays games and engines won't be enough to merit a purchase.

i have the same feeling, with the rumored specs its hard to believe there will be mass availability and nice prices...but then again i know very little about electronics or what nvidia are doing down the fabs.

and i defo agree they need a part capable of HDR and AA, and they definately need something to combat ATI's quite frankly stellar IQ
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
______________________________________________________________
mid range:
7600GT (replaces 6800GS)
~600/~1400 128bit 128/256 mb GDDR3
12 pipelines (12 ROPs?)
MSRP $249

7600GS (A bit more cheaper mid range variant)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8 pipelines (8 ROPs)
MSRP $199
________________________________________________________________


Why would anyone pay $250 for a 12 pipe card or $200 for an 8 pipe card ?

Is there something new about these cards that justifies those prices ?
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Of course most of my post is speculation, this is a rumor thread or did you not read the title? As for AF, nVidia Quality AF is terrible and I say this with 5+ months of experience with the 7800 GTX and having posted videos to document this. But when I mentioned HQ AF I was referring to angle independent AF which nVidia does not have.

What goes around comes around.

Back in the days of 5800/5900s vs 9700/9800s I would try to make the point (like 5150) that angle independent AF is inherently a bit better.

The ATI crowd would respond with "BS! We cannot see the difference!" or "It's too small to care- hail ATI for faster AF performance!"

Now in 7800 vs X1800/X1900 days, those who like X18-19 cards try to convince 7800 owners that angle independent AF is better, and 7800 owners say "BS! We cannot see the difference!"

There's nothing new under the sun, as the saying goes.

HDR+AA is a noce feature no doubt, but largely irrelevant in my eyes, on this level of cards. There are two games I know of that support it, one of those with a beta patch is two years old. Also, single cards AA+HDR seems pretty limited in resolution, so it's a bittersweet win at best. (much like HDR on first gen nVidia cards- nice to be able to check it out, but not a deal maker)

My $.02, hopefully "flame free". ;)
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,305
1
0
Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:

Pleeeease Rollo, when you say stuff like this you're just giving your stamp of approval to ever-rising prices of high end cards. When does it stop? It's not good for anyone except ATI and Nvidia. The 1900 cards are not underpriced... they are in fact still quite pricey compared to the starting prices of high end cards just a couple years ago. It's the 7800GTX 512 that is absurdly overpriced at $750-1000.

 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:

Anybody else smell a fresh steaming pile of chimpanzee poo?

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: munky
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3170

There is no doubt NVIDIA will be launching the 90nm G71 in March and the official name will be GeForce 7900. We came to know that there will be 2 versions; the GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB and the GeForce 7900 256MB. The GeForce 7900 GTX will be launched at CeBIT on 9th of March while the GeForce 7900 GT will be launched later on 20th March most likely together with the GeForce 7600 series. There are little information about the pipelines and clock speeds yet. The current rumours implied a 32 pipes G71 so if that is true, 7900 GT could be 24 pipes. We overheard a yield issue that leads to the delay so it could probably meant a high core clock or too many pipelines causing the problem.

There's been a bunch of contradicting info on this upcoming card so far, but like I said before, it just doesn't smell right for the midrange series 7600 to be launched 9 months after the high end 7800's. Post your opinions and discuss, but lets keep the flames to a minimum.


There was little to no reason to release a 7600. ATI didnt have anything to bring to the table and the 6600 and 6800 series was doing fine in that segment.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,305
1
0
Originally posted by: Rollo

HDR+AA is a noce feature no doubt, but largely irrelevant in my eyes, on this level of cards. There are two games I know of that support it, one of those with a beta patch is two years old. Also, single cards AA+HDR seems pretty limited in resolution, so it's a bittersweet win at best. (much like HDR on first gen nVidia cards- nice to be able to check it out, but not a deal maker)

I've told you this before but you just refuse to hear it and keep to your same story.

People do not buy high end cards solely for the games that are currently out. They buy the cards for the games that are coming out in the next year or two that they plan to have the card. There are a lot of people who can't afford to buy a high end card every year, so if they buy something like the 1900XT, they plan to keep it a couple years. You can get bet your ass there will be plenty of HDR-enabled games coming out in the next year or two.

(edit for typo)
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,293
814
136
Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:

Sure 750$ is a good deal? LOL.
They're giving us the x1900XT at 500$ because that's the price for the seconds best card.
Maybe you forgot, but 500$ was 6800U's price. I don't remember, but I think that the 7800GTX's price was 550$? Bargain? 750$ ? a 50% price rise in a year and a half? WOOT!
even 650$ MSRP for the x1900XTX IS WAYYY too much.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,305
1
0
Originally posted by: linkgoron

Sure 750$ is a good deal? LOL.
They're giving us the x1900XT at 500$ because that's the price for the seconds best card.
Maybe you forgot, but 500$ was 6800U's price. I don't remember, but I think that the 7800GTX's price was 550$? Bargain? 750$ ? a 50% price rise in a year and a half? WOOT!
even 650$ MSRP for the x1900XTX IS WAYYY too much.

Amen
 

the Chase

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2005
1,403
0
0
All we need to do as consumers is to stop paying over $500 for any video card-prices WILL fall below $500 even for top end cards. Will it slow/stifle new development on cards? Dunno. Depends on what their profit margins are on a top end card for $500 I suppose. Now if we could just get everyone to close up their wallets some for awhile...
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Tom
______________________________________________________________
mid range:
7600GT (replaces 6800GS)
~600/~1400 128bit 128/256 mb GDDR3
12 pipelines (12 ROPs?)
MSRP $249

7600GS (A bit more cheaper mid range variant)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8 pipelines (8 ROPs)
MSRP $199
________________________________________________________________


Why would anyone pay $250 for a 12 pipe card or $200 for an 8 pipe card ?

Is there something new about these cards that justifies those prices ?

Because they're clocked high too. The 7600GT looks like it will totally rape the 6600GT.

But with the 7800GT at $289 for a while now, I doubt those cards will be that expensive.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:

absolute nonsense

ATI's XTX IS $650 MSRP . . . strangely/unfortunately for ATI, the XTX isn't worth $100 more than the XT - that is their "error".

And ATi released the X1900xt in MASS quantity so competition drove the pricesl below $500 quickly - unlike the MIA GTX ultra and possibly like the new 7900GTX 'ultra'.

And i doubt that ATi know anything about nVidia's future products from sharing OEM and FABS.

$650 and $550 is NOT "aggressive pricing" . . . they are gonna sell well because they are in great supply and their performance is the best.