Rumor of possible yield problems with the G71

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Wow...that has to be about the most idiotic comparison I've ever seen.

He mentioned doctors because he knows I'm going to med school in the Fall.

 

[Ronin]

People have paid $600+ for the novelty of owning a voodoo 5 6000 and other morons have paid thousands of dollars for William Shatners kidney stone. The same idiots dole out cash for high end cards while nVidia and their stock holders laugh it up all the way to the bank.

I was referring to this comparison. I know why he referenced Doctors. What you have above is apples to oranges to pears to pineapples.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Wow...that has to be about the most idiotic comparison I've ever seen.

Heh- sorry- I was trying to bring the point close to home for 5150 as he's going to med school in the fall.

Refer to my examples of much costlier homes and pickup trucks for a consumer goods analogy.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- I think launch price of $750 could be a bargain, not necessarily a bad deal, depending on performance.

My guess is that ATI pretty much knows what nVidia has in the works as they share OEMs and FABs.

It's also my guess that ATI is pricing their products very aggressively at launch to try and sell some cards before March, because they realize they'll be beaten at the high end again then.

It would make some sense, I don't think ATI is giving us X1900XT performance for $500 because they don't want to make more money.

The cards perform on par and sometimes better than 512MB GTXs, and ATI has seen 512 GTXs selling at $800-$1000 a card, so they KNOW the market will bear the price up to a certain level of demand.

They could have easily started at $600, $700 and if you think they didn't because ATI is looking out for you- :roll:

I'd have to disagree Rollo, no way would I ever think $750 is a "bargain" for any kind of card. I think even the $650 I paid for the XTX was a complete rip off and am disgusted by the rapid inflation of prices for vid cards. I realize nVidia/ATi are pouring more R&D dollars into these things but there's no way it costs that much, especially for cores they leverage across several product lines. I think ATi priced their products accordingly (XT anyway), they woudln't price them at a point where it would hurt their profit levels. Of course if they can get it in the range they did, they'll make money and gain market share so its a win-win situation.

Interesting.

When I was a kid, doctors charged $60-$70/hour for their time. Will you be charging that after med school because hourly doctor rates are too high? Why not? I think it's "disgusting" anyone could think their work is worth $150-$350 per hour.

When you prescribe anitbiotics for a stuffy nose will you review time be worth 5X what my Dr.s was then?

Maybe because a dollar today isn't worth the same as a doller 40 years ago?
Actually that's a great example. in 40 years prices have doubled? tripled? lets say even 5 times, in 40 years. and basically change by around 200$. We've seen a change of 200$ in what? two years? that's 100$ per year. Exactly the same as 200$ in 40 years.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Rollo

And yet many people never even notice the shimmering, which varies highly by game and in may does not exist at all. I have a small dent in the back corner of my boat that no one else ever notices, but my eye is drawn to it everytime I look at my boat. Moral: image quality is subjective.

Image quality is only subjective to those that want to close their eyes to nVidia's flaws If I link back to that thread I posted here on AT, you will find the majority of people that posted in that thread saw the lower AF problem right away.

Really? How is now different than any other time? ATI specific features just don't enjoy a lot of implementation. If you disagree with this, please name 1 or 2 that did?

I'm not debating ATi's feature implementations, I am however debating the desire for rapid delivery in IQ features. Prior to the 9700 pro, the trend was for faster and faster cards with much less focus on IQ. Today you have the gaming community and reviewers dedicating image quality sections in their reviews as well as professing their value to the community. Case in point like I mentioned and I'll reiterate is OpenEXR HDR. It wasn't part of MS's SM 3.0 yet many editors and especially nVidia fans professed the need for OpenEXR HDR and ATi was pressured into delivering it. If one could argue the value of HDR despite low performance in the 6800 days, then there is no reason they should flip flop about it in regards to HDR + AA right? Back when OpenEXR HDR was available, I felt the 6800 line didn't have the performance to really use it and likewise with HDR+AA I think R600 is what will really push it in terms of performance but regardless, it's a checkmark feature that nVidia needs to add. How much traction hardware HDR+AA gains remains to be seen but ATi is much more aggressive today than it was in the days of the 8500 and Truform.

That was two years ago and I believe there are four HDR games? One of which is officially patched, one with a beta patch. At this rate, we'll all be old before we're playing many HDR+AA games?

Right but I don't see anyone that professed the need for OpenEXR HDR saying, "well guess it was overhyped back then" today. Rather they say nVidia deserves praise for pushing HDR to the forefront and they pushed it as a needed feature to be "future proof" during the 6800 days. This case is no different.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Ronin

People have paid $600+ for the novelty of owning a voodoo 5 6000 and other morons have paid thousands of dollars for William Shatners kidney stone. The same idiots dole out cash for high end cards while nVidia and their stock holders laugh it up all the way to the bank.

I was referring to this comparison. I know why he referenced Doctors. What you have above is apples to oranges to pears to pineapples.

The point was that there are always some people willing to pay high sums of cash for just about anything - that doesn't mean it's logical or in the case of high end video cards, justified for the mass market.

 

[fstime]

Looks like Nvidia is going down this quater.

First beat by the X1800XT, then they release a joke called the 512mb GTX which is difficult to find at a reasonable cost, they probably released it as a last minute desperate counter attack.

Then the X1900XT is brought into play, offering the best performance next to ATI's other card, the 1800XT.

Now we have yeild problems for Nvidia as they go into new 90nm territory as they try to pull off what they call the 7900 I believe.

Hopefully they can pull something strong, and not another 512mb GTX move. :laugh:

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ronin
Wow...that has to be about the most idiotic comparison I've ever seen.

Heh- sorry- I was trying to bring the point close to home for 5150 as he's going to med school in the fall.

Refer to my examples of much costlier homes and pickup trucks for a consumer goods analogy.

Read above to clarify who I was referencing.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Looks like Nvidia is going down this quater.

First beat by the X1800XT, then they release a joke called the 512mb GTX which is difficult to find at a reasonable cost, they probably released it as a last minute desperate counter attack.

Then the X1900XT is brought into play, offering the best performance next to ATI's other card, the 1800XT.

Now we have yeild problems for Nvidia as they go into new 90nm territory as they try to pull off what they call the 7900 I believe.

Hopefully they can pull something strong, and not another 512mb GTX move. :laugh:

Thank you for your once a week post of idiocy. Back to your hole.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Image quality is only subjective to those that want to close their eyes to nVidia's flaws If I link back to that thread I posted here on AT, you will find the majority of people that posted in that thread saw the lower AF problem right away.

It's not a matter of closing your eyes 5150, it's a matter of not noticing it because it's not a glaring fault. Let me put it this way:
When I had a ATI MAXX (much beloved) sometimes the walls on buildings would be flat grey in games, totally missing colors/textures. Sometimes they would flash on and off. This was an IQ issue that could not be missed or ignored.

Now, when I running along in UT2004 at 19X12, and there are little ripples off in the distance on the ground due to some under sampling of the mipmaps at the transitions, it's pretty easy not to notice because in general I'm preoccupied looking for other players, not studying the ground.

I'm not debating ATi's feature implementations, I am however debating the desire for rapid delivery in IQ features. Prior to the 9700 pro, the trend was for faster and faster cards with much less focus on IQ.

Not true. The adoption of every new form AA, bump mapping, AF, TrueForm, motion blur, etc etc etc- all examples of video games advancing along in IQ over the years. There is no modern "birth of high IQ", we're just at another point in the evolution that you'll get used to as the decades roll by.

Today you have the gaming community and reviewers dedicating image quality sections in their reviews as well as professing their value to the community. Case in point like I mentioned and I'll reiterate is OpenEXR HDR. It wasn't part of MS's SM 3.0 yet many editors and especially nVidia fans professed the need for OpenEXR HDR and ATi was pressured into delivering it. If one could argue the value of HDR despite low performance in the 6800 days, then there is no reason they should flip flop about it in regards to HDR + AA right? Back when OpenEXR HDR was available, I felt the 6800 line didn't have the performance to really use it and likewise with HDR+AA I think R600 is what will really push it in terms of performance but regardless, it's a checkmark feature that nVidia needs to add. How much traction hardware HDR+AA gains remains to be seen but ATi is much more aggressive today than it was in the days of the 8500 and Truform.

Nah. ATI is about where they've always been in terms of developer relations. All the big ones are TWIMTBP, ATI has a couple.
I hope HDR+AA does "gain traction", but if nVidia doesn't adopt it, you won't see much of it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ronin
Wow...that has to be about the most idiotic comparison I've ever seen.

Heh- sorry- I was trying to bring the point close to home for 5150 as he's going to med school in the fall.

Refer to my examples of much costlier homes and pickup trucks for a consumer goods analogy.

Read above to clarify who I was referencing.

NP dude- my MD reference was a stretch.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Tom
______________________________________________________________
mid range:
7600GT (replaces 6800GS)
~600/~1400 128bit 128/256 mb GDDR3
12 pipelines (12 ROPs?)
MSRP $249

7600GS (A bit more cheaper mid range variant)
~550/~1000 128bit 128mb GDDR3
8 pipelines (8 ROPs)
MSRP $199
________________________________________________________________


Why would anyone pay $250 for a 12 pipe card or $200 for an 8 pipe card ?

Is there something new about these cards that justifies those prices ?

The X1600XT has an MSRP of $249 and is soon to be replaced with a X1700.
The 6600GT had an MSRP of $249 but now it replaced the 6800GS.

The 7600GT will probably murder a 6600GT and be faster than the 6800GS or it will make no sense to release the product.

I do believe the 7800 series will be discontinued. For a fact the X1600XT is a 4 pipe card.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Looks like Nvidia is going down this quater.

First beat by the X1800XT, then they release a joke called the 512mb GTX which is difficult to find at a reasonable cost, they probably released it as a last minute desperate counter attack.

Then the X1900XT is brought into play, offering the best performance next to ATI's other card, the 1800XT.

Now we have yeild problems for Nvidia as they go into new 90nm territory as they try to pull off what they call the 7900 I believe.

Hopefully they can pull something strong, and not another 512mb GTX move. :laugh:

Thank you for your once a week post of idiocy. Back to your hole.

The troll strikes again.

I find it odd when I make a comment negative about Nvidia, you and your butt-buddy Rollo find so much offense.

Odd, I see Rollo making similer comments everyday.

I'm done with you, troll.

Go buy some of your hardware for once instead of leaching off your sources and posting pics on the internet, remember, your "l337 stack of video cards" and your 5 512 GTX's?

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

The troll strikes again.

I'm done with you, troll.

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

3 things.

1. You shouldn't speak of yourself with such ill words (you calling someone else a troll labels you as a hypocrite...I mean really...)
2. Excellent! Be done with all of us, please. Go back to your slope-headed reletives, cretin.
3. I'm not going to try and educate you on reference design, since you obviously don't know how things work, but I applaud your weak effort.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: BouZouki

The troll strikes again.

I'm done with you, troll.

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

3 things.

1. You shouldn't speak of yourself with such ill words (you calling someone else a troll labels you as a hypocrite...I mean really...)
2. Excellent! Be done with all of us, please. Go back to your slope-headed reletives, cretin.
3. I'm not going to try and educate you on reference design, since you obviously don't know how things work, but I applaud your weak effort.

2/10

Bad efford, i'm sorry.

This is really quite laughable.

I really should stop feeding this troll...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I find it odd when I make a comment negative about Nvidia, you and your butt-buddy Rollo find so much offense.

Making vulgar references to someone's presumed sexuality- the mark of a mature, skilled debater the world over. Teach us, Master! :roll:

I'm done with you, troll.

Calling names like a kid on the playground, again, the mark of civilized discourse!

Go buy some of your hardware for once instead of leaching off your sources and posting pics on the internet, remember, your "l337 stack of video cards" and your 5 512 GTX's?

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

With a closing statement attempting to generate jealousy and hatred of his opponent because he gets access to some free hardware through his work.

Bravo!

I suppose you trip stewardesses while hissing "I know about your free ticket deal, scum!" or spit on fast food employee's lunch while they eat it because they got it free or discounted?

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I find it odd when I make a comment negative about Nvidia, you and your butt-buddy Rollo find so much offense.

Making vulgar references to someone's presumed sexuality- the mark of a mature, skilled debater the world over. Teach us, Master! :roll:

I'm done with you, troll.

Calling names like a kid on the playground, again, the mark of civilized discourse!

Go buy some of your hardware for once instead of leaching off your sources and posting pics on the internet, remember, your "l337 stack of video cards" and your 5 512 GTX's?

Thanks for making availibility even worse for us.

With a closing statement attempting to generate jealousy and hatred of his opponent because he gets access to some free hardware through his work.

Bravo!

I suppose you trip stewardesses while hissing "I know about your free ticket deal, scum!" or spit on fast food employee's lunch while they eat it because they got it free or discounted?

Ah, its trollo, I wont bother here, you're way out of my league!

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I really should stop feeding this troll...

Or simply do what you said you were going to do. Weaker by the minute, BouZ. You're fading fast (then again, there wasn't much there to begin with, so what difference does it make?).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Ah, its trollo, I wont bother here, you're way out of my league!

Obviously, in more ways than one. :beer:

 

[Cooler]

Most people here are forgetting the r590/ r560 80nm shrink and refresh cards coming in mid of the year.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Munky your thread has been hijacked by bunch of :|

We dont even know if vr-zone(or was it INQ) is right about NV having its first tape out. I bet NV is already up to A2 rev, because it looks like NV has been testing the 7600/7900 for quite some time now.

They did have like 10 month to work on the refresh.. or even more so.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I really should stop feeding this troll...

Or simply do what you said you were going to do. Weaker by the minute, BouZ. You're fading fast (then again, there wasn't much there to begin with, so what difference does it make?).

Once again, your effort is laughable, you might as well give up because this is obviously a waste of my time, unlike you, I don't have time to waste.

I suppose i'll be back sometime next week to make a comment and be harrased by you.



Have fun.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Munky your thread has been hijacked by bunch of :|

We dont even know if vr-zone(or was it INQ) is right about NV having its first tape out. I bet NV is already up to A2 rev, because it looks like NV has been testing the 7600/7900 for quite some time now.

They did have like 10 month to work on the refresh.. or even more so.

I'm more curious where they "overheard" this yield problem. Interesting choice of words by them to say the least (and the fact that thus far, they're the only ones reporting such a thing). I'd take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Munky your thread has been hijacked by bunch of :|

We dont even know if vr-zone(or was it INQ) is right about NV having its first tape out. I bet NV is already up to A2 rev, because it looks like NV has been testing the 7600/7900 for quite some time now.

They did have like 10 month to work on the refresh.. or even more so.

I'm more curious where they "overheard" this yield problem. Interesting choice of words by them to say the least (and the fact that thus far, they're the only ones reporting such a thing). I'd take it with a grain of salt.

Another interesting fact is that, the drivers for the G71 was found in one of NVs driver even before the 7800GTX 512mb was released. That was like 3 months ago?

I think there just stock piling G71s across the globe. But xbitlabs are true on another aspect. Why release a card during cebit? The media will be focused on like conroe/yonah and other things that could steal the thunder away from the upcoming G71.

NV is very, very i mean very tight lipped about this card. No concrete infomation has been leaked in anyway apart it being 90nm.

 

[Ronin]

It wouldn't be the first time that nVIDIA has launched at a trade show. If they do, it'll make all the reviewer sites regardless, and with much fan faire, I'd imagine. I don't see it as a detriment, but actually a good use of marketing dollars, since they'd be there anyway.