And you know this how? Do you think the people were better off as slaves in their own countries?
The struggle for justice amongst humanity has been spearheaded by the injustices suffered by the Proletariat British, but to glorify Britain is only to go with the flow of the blood of the dead in those injustices, America had the chance to redirect the path of modern governance, but chose self-interest and short term gain, to be frank it made the imperial british better then they were, prolong and profited from the plundering and exploitation of less developed countries- like a pedophile to a young boy!!!!!!!!!
I know why the flag is red
The royal in the british people is in the heart and faith they hold in humanity, it has always been the positive driver for the best of the British!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJfgsG9Wgas
Ask any of the real proletariat in any country if they are better off under capitalism. The market is drying up its own water supply.
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You are of their seed!
America perfected the technique instead of reversing it, ohhh how they lied to the world, they gave this world to the devil of human greed! mother fuckers!
The pinkertons and the banksters, took off with a vengeance where the old money had a resemblance of ethical foundation to retain wealth was enough, but to this new wealthy class all wasn't enough.
I ask you who will fire the first shot to bring this into balance again.......
There is debt to be paid; not all of it is in money, your first born child is a down payment, Amerikon!
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Is there some sort of special event? There's no news or politics in this thread. I suppose we can debate the following:
Personally, I feel that the British Empire was the worst nation this earth has ever seen, especially considering the vast devastation and destruction they left. We're still suffering from their follies.
I also have to question how it's responsible for all of western democracy when it was against giving freedom and democracy to most of its colonies. The UK had to suffer repeated and humiliating military defeats in order for many of its colonies to have democracy.
I would argue they took the ball from imperial rome v/v the saxons in the 600ad's
and again during the crusades, they needed multi-national force to attempt to invade the Sarrasins in Palestine, which allowed the nomadic Ottomans who are Asiatics to become the next driving force in human development- thru their forges of bronze, iron and steel.
You rock bearing monkeys are so funny!
Steel was known in antiquity, and may have been produced by managing bloomeries, iron-smelting facilities, where the bloom contained carbon.[17]
The earliest known production of steel is a piece of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and is about 4,000 years old
Mother fuckers; western europeans lick my nutsack!
And now you build a millitary robot force to be hijacked and used against yourself, when the fuck will you learn to be fair and civil, found your lives on honesty ansd the awareness of your world environment... if you have more then you need give, and give from the heart you will no enemy but your past and that regret of failure to realise this great future for all Humanity, with less you get so much more...............................................................................................................................................
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How do you know this? They may not have been outright slaves but they were treated just as much. Are you trying to imply that the standard of living was higher when that area was ruled by whites as opposed to today? Care to back up your statement?
Go do a bit of research on what Zimbabwe is like today. Widespread hunger, no rule of law, horrible healthcare, etc etc.
My post was partially meant to get a rise out of sanctimonious lefty douchebags, however it is fair to say that Rhodesia was better off under white minority rule than Zimbabwe currently is under Mugabe's dictatorship. It was far from perfect (nobody was enslaved but it was definitely racist) but at least there was enough food for everyone and they had a functional legal system that followed its own laws. Of course from a purely pragmatic point of view it was unsustainable because of demographics.
So, in other words, you have nothing to back up your statement? No statistics? Nothing?
- Oct 9, 1999
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Stirring sentiment in a somewhat sketchy thread, OP.
Folks, say what you will about Sir Winston Churchill. There is much that you can rightly take him to task for.
Yet I have no doubt that, in the very darkest hours of WWII, when France had fallen and England stood alone, he was the right man in the right place at the right time, and for this, we all owe him an immeasurable debt.
We shall fight on the beaches.
This was their finest hour.
Do your worst, Mr. Hitler. We shall do our best.
Folks, say what you will about Sir Winston Churchill. There is much that you can rightly take him to task for.
Yet I have no doubt that, in the very darkest hours of WWII, when France had fallen and England stood alone, he was the right man in the right place at the right time, and for this, we all owe him an immeasurable debt.
We shall fight on the beaches.
This was their finest hour.
Do your worst, Mr. Hitler. We shall do our best.
- Oct 9, 1999
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Dari, do you really not know how correct ichy is? He gave all the proper caveats.
Rhodesia was a racist colonial remnant, and as such, unsustainable and morally deficient, but Mugabe has run the country of Zimbabwe into the ground with a moral and ethical deficiency to rival that of most any regime anywhere.
Most every regular Zimbabwean, black and white, has suffered terribly under his rule.
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I was going to post that Britannia was not responsible for all of western democracy, but then I realized that if the King (way back when) would have have been treating the American colonists so poorly, we would not have created the nation which is responsible for al of western democracy.
So I suppose you guys do get the credit for causing the American colonists to create a democracy.
That's sort of like arguing that Israel wouldn't exist without what the Nazis did, so they get credit for creating that state.
I think of it as democracy thriving despite British efforts to thwart it.
I am sure he isn't correct. Mugabe replace one totalitarian government with another and kicked out all the white farmers and gave it to his cronies. But to state that the Zimbabweans were better off under colonial rule is bullshit. Were the Congolese better under colonial rule as well, when their limbs were getting chopped off and millions died mining for the king of belgium? Blanket statements like Africans were better under colonial rule than they are today is just false. Either back up your statements or STFU.
There are similar leaders in British history, especially in regards to the treatment of the colonial populations. For example, Winston Churchill was responsible for the deaths of 4-5 million Bengalis.
The British Empire was involved all over the world, throughout centuries, and wielded power over larger populations. Surely it as an entity massacred more than Pol Pot's regime.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Call it England or Great Briton, love it or hate it, but its still impossible to deny, that one small island country has been dominant in the past 600 years in terms of shaping world history. But we can some what qualify that statement by saying, the same force of colonialism that elevated the British empire to dominance is now a spent force and now the British empire is far smaller than it used to be.
And as an amateur historian, it may be easier to distance emotions and merely say colonialism was a brutal and unequal process. But still, its the process that has built the modern world into a single world where we are all interlinked globally.
Now we are into the start of a post colonial history and seemingly doing even worse.
And as an amateur historian, it may be easier to distance emotions and merely say colonialism was a brutal and unequal process. But still, its the process that has built the modern world into a single world where we are all interlinked globally.
Now we are into the start of a post colonial history and seemingly doing even worse.
davmat787
Diamond Member
- Nov 30, 2010
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IIRC, Pericles was most influential during the time you describe. He built the first Senate that employed a direct democracy. That is, during each citizens lifetime, one was expected to serve at least one, one year term. Another fun fact: once a year, a vote would be held to remove a Senator if it was felt they were abusing power. They voted using Ostrakons, small pottery shards where the name could be written on it. If the vote passed, the Senator was then 'ostracized' from society for up to ten years.
cybrsage
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2011
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It goes a little further than that, remember that our ancestors went to war to "reclaim their rights as Englishmen", much of which they saw in English common law. So you can sort of credit the Brits with inspiring the creation of the most powerful nation in world history, guess they had to choose a replacement eventually.
It is interesting that if the King had treated the Englishmen living in the American colonies the same as those living in England, we would have never rebelled.
cybrsage
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2011
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Some people really are so nationalistic that they can't handle criticism of their country. Apparently it leads some of them to make alleged call out threads or whatever.
The British were pretty ruthless to almost the entire world. I can't think of any other entity in the entire universe that has more blood on its hands than the UK. So, for that matter, I do think that the world is a lot safer once the UK started to lose its empire and essentially become a vassal state of the US and do its bidding, even if it and the US are pretty bloodthirsty at times. Definitely better than raping and pillaging the world over and being responsible for so many genocides, IMO.
So, anyways, in a sense the British are slaves to the US.
The British were pretty ruthless to almost the entire world. I can't think of any other entity in the entire universe that has more blood on its hands than the UK. So, for that matter, I do think that the world is a lot safer once the UK started to lose its empire and essentially become a vassal state of the US and do its bidding, even if it and the US are pretty bloodthirsty at times. Definitely better than raping and pillaging the world over and being responsible for so many genocides, IMO.
So, anyways, in a sense the British are slaves to the US.
"Giving up" empire? You make it sound like they decided to finally become a benevolent country. Talk about revisionist history.
Let's be clear: England's move away from empire is rooted in defeat, not benevolence.
However, at some point, deciding to accept the loss of empire was part of the change.
I'm saying the final effect of England shifting from a world empire to a nation that has embraced democracy over empire is what's a magnificent change, in terms of the improvement for everyone involved and something we should like to see globally, and to a decent extent have - though it's too much been replaced by 'economic imperialism'.
As I've said, Britain was a monstrous colonizer; now, they're much different.
Much as the world gave up slavery as an institution country by country in the late 19th century, colonialism has largely been abolished as an institution in the mid 20th, accelerated IMO by JFK's policies to support third-world independence - from a combination o idealism, and pragmatic cold war tactics to win their support.
cybrsage
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2011
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Canada and Australia (just to name to which immediately came to mind) did not have to fight for their freedom from the Empire. They were willingly given up by the UK.
OK Craig234, that's better. It's just that saying "giving up empire" was an odd choice of words when millions had to fight and die against the UK in order to force the UK into defeat and a loss of their slave-states. At that point, they basically had nothing to give up. The only thing left was to accept a transformation of status as a former world enslaver to a relatively insignificant power.
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