Ron Pauls "What if" speech. Wow!

[compuwiz1]

Who was that other loon that used to start RP threads all the time?

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JS80
He sounds like he has good ideas until you hear his views on foreign and monetary policy. That's when you realize he's a nutjob.

That is because your ideas on foreign and monetary policies are insane.

Yea, because basing your money on a shiney yellow metal makes sense. And we should turn a blind eye when we see injustice in the world. OK, i'm insane.

The injustice is taking away the property of Americans via force and using it to kill people overseas. Whether that killing is done by economic sanctions via Clinton, or invasion via Bush, it is wrong, causes hatred toward us, and makes it more dangerous for us at home, as those who seek revenge come here to carry it out.

Call me biased and for injustice, I come from a country where American property was used to "kill" people in order to save my grandparents so that my parents and I could have a prosperous life.

OH CHEERIO I'M BRITISH! I HAVE AN ACCENT! I SOUND SO SMART! I AM ENLIGHTENED! I'M AN ATHEIST! OH YOU ARE ALL BLOODY IDIOTS!

yea good for you, go fuck yourself you piece of shit.

I really don't get all this jealousy you have towards us Britons, did your parents make you speak proper English as kids? Or did you have an English teacher who touched you in your naughty areas and you liked it so much that now you have to hate everything British just to be a good Mormon?

I feel sorry for your daughter. You should have just aborted her. I can't imagine living in Sheffield with someone like you.

Not too late mr enlightened solider! you can do a post birth abortion on her!

I didn't think anyone would sink this low to suggest that i should kill my own daughter but true "christians" are apparently without any kind of conscience.

You do realise that what you suggest is akin to an incitament for murder and that that is a federal crime? I'm not going to report your stupid arse this time but if you do it again you can bet your stupid arse that i will.

I will request that you stop posting for a while though, lets say a month.

Wow... JS80 just went over the top. What a nutjob. We have all seen people get overly dramatic on political forums, but damn... that was way too far.

He just went from whiny rightwing douchebag to total raging nutcase.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Who was that other loon that used to start RP threads all the time?

You mean Perry404? Man was that guy ever a nutjob.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JS80
He sounds like he has good ideas until you hear his views on foreign and monetary policy. That's when you realize he's a nutjob.

That is because your ideas on foreign and monetary policies are insane.

Yea, because basing your money on a shiney yellow metal makes sense. And we should turn a blind eye when we see injustice in the world. OK, i'm insane.

The injustice is taking away the property of Americans via force and using it to kill people overseas. Whether that killing is done by economic sanctions via Clinton, or invasion via Bush, it is wrong, causes hatred toward us, and makes it more dangerous for us at home, as those who seek revenge come here to carry it out.

Call me biased and for injustice, I come from a country where American property was used to "kill" people in order to save my grandparents so that my parents and I could have a prosperous life.

OH CHEERIO I'M BRITISH! I HAVE AN ACCENT! I SOUND SO SMART! I AM ENLIGHTENED! I'M AN ATHEIST! OH YOU ARE ALL BLOODY IDIOTS!

yea good for you, go fuck yourself you piece of shit.

I really don't get all this jealousy you have towards us Britons, did your parents make you speak proper English as kids? Or did you have an English teacher who touched you in your naughty areas and you liked it so much that now you have to hate everything British just to be a good Mormon?

Why the hell would anyone be jealous of Britain? Sorry as your Church of England and leaders bow to a foreign religion and the country is about 25 years away from Sharia it's you who will beg to come to USA to partake of rights and freedoms you claim to appreciate. Elizabeth I is most certainly spinning in her grave!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

Correct, provided the demand for the currency is there it'll keep its value. As you can see from current interest rates, demand for the $ is just fine. Hyperinflation in a deflationary environment is a boogeyman pimped by people who have no idea how finance or economics work.

 

[StageLeft]

I saw this. Typical predicable RP, which a) turns most of his audience off with groans of "not him again" and b) gets a lot of things right.

You just know that people in the audience chuckle every time he gets up and just ignore/mock him. He does have some valid points, though.

 

[AnandTech Moderator]

From the OP

Hey would you guys ease up please. I don't want my thread closed because of personal disputes.

From me:
Take your off topic discussions elsewhere, like to PMs. And while you're at it, cut out the nasty attacks. If you cannot keep this somewhat clean in here, I will lock it up.

C'mon guys, a modicum of civility please???


esquared
Anandtech Senior Moderator

 

[dawp]

I can agree with some of what Ron Paul says, but the 65% of the rest just kills it for me and I could never vote fore him.

 

[daniel49]

what if: All the pie in the sky, hold hands, and put flowers in our hair, as we sing we are the world, and stick our heads in the sand is the beginning of the end?

 

[SSSnail]

I really wish this guy was our President. Say what you will about the man, but I believe he's the only decent politician I've seen lately.

Most of you don't like the truth and that is fine, it hurts; everybody needs some truth serum every now and then.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

Correct, provided the demand for the currency is there it'll keep its value. As you can see from current interest rates, demand for the $ is just fine. Hyperinflation in a deflationary environment is a boogeyman pimped by people who have no idea how finance or economics work.

Deflationary because consumption hit a wall, to which the response is predictably government spending trillions of dollars it doesn't have and will have future inflationary effects.

And on what planet do you see the demand for the dollar is high? High compared to the Zimbabwean dollar, sure.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

Correct, provided the demand for the currency is there it'll keep its value. As you can see from current interest rates, demand for the $ is just fine. Hyperinflation in a deflationary environment is a boogeyman pimped by people who have no idea how finance or economics work.

Deflationary because consumption hit a wall, to which the response is predictably government spending trillions of dollars it doesn't have and will have future inflationary effects.

And on what planet do you see the demand for the dollar is high? High compared to the Zimbabwean dollar, sure.

Deflation for many reasons. For the fact that "wealth", in the form of housing, stocks, and current consumption of future money through credit, have fallen or contracted.

Obviously the demand is much higher recently compared to the Euro, Pound, Ruble, Frank, among others.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What if Ron Paul was president now??? Heaven forbid!!

 

[Appledrop]

<3 ron paul
hes the man, the macdaddy, you better listen to the guy alright
and legendkiller, what a joke; you just know hes gonna come in here all angry spouting nonsense until hes satisfied he's won (the point where nobody cares to refute him)
and the dollar strength... ehh, that is only short term I expect, all the trillions of debt can not be paid back without severe devaluation

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Money
<3 ron paul
hes the man, the macdaddy, you better listen to the guy alright
and legendkiller, what a joke; you just know hes gonna come in here all angry spouting nonsense until hes satisfied he's won (the point where nobody cares to refute him)
and the dollar strength... ehh, that is only short term I expect, all the trillions of debt can not be paid back without severe devaluation

Angry nonsense? ROFL, only to gits like you who can't even refute simple facts. Only your lack of intellect and knowledge prevents you from refuting me, not you not caring.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
I don't understand the hype of the gold standard. Why is gold better than money? I understand it has uses, but wouldn't we just be trading one object for another? I suppose the logic is that you cannot print gold, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Most gold believers are adamant about currency "debasement"; in other words they don't want anyone (gov't or otherwise) increasing the money supply because they believe it causes inflation. And if all else were held equal, it would. Except basic economic reality says it doesn't matter how much you increase the money supply if more and more people are transacting U.S. dollars at a proportionally equal/higher rate as that money supply increase. Which is sort of what's happening now, with more and more countries finding safe haven in the U.S. dollar, totally destroying this myth among gold fanatics (including Ron Paul and Peter Schiff) that the U.S. dollar will undergo hyperinflation. Dollar has actually gotten stronger since we started pumping tens of billions into these financial institutions.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying in this paragraph. I thought if the growth of money exceeded the growth of goods and services in an economy, then inflation would result. What exactly do you mean by "transacting" US dollars? Doesn't that just mean spending them? How does the rate of spending money affect inflation? As I said earlier, I thought inflation was the result when the supply of money grows faster than GDP, i.e. a larger number of dollars chasing a proportionally smaller amount of goods and services.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
I don't understand the hype of the gold standard. Why is gold better than money? I understand it has uses, but wouldn't we just be trading one object for another? I suppose the logic is that you cannot print gold, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Most gold believers are adamant about currency "debasement"; in other words they don't want anyone (gov't or otherwise) increasing the money supply because they believe it causes inflation. And if all else were held equal, it would. Except basic economic reality says it doesn't matter how much you increase the money supply if more and more people are transacting U.S. dollars at a proportionally equal/higher rate as that money supply increase. Which is sort of what's happening now, with more and more countries finding safe haven in the U.S. dollar, totally destroying this myth among gold fanatics (including Ron Paul and Peter Schiff) that the U.S. dollar will undergo hyperinflation. Dollar has actually gotten stronger since we started pumping tens of billions into these financial institutions.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying in this paragraph. I thought if the growth of money exceeded the growth of goods and services in an economy, then inflation would result. What exactly do you mean by "transacting" US dollars? Doesn't that just mean spending them? How does the rate of spending money affect inflation? As I said earlier, I thought inflation was the result when the supply of money grows faster than GDP, i.e. a larger number of dollars chasing a proportionally smaller amount of goods and services.

Keynesians like to use a "new" definition of inflation, rising prices due to an increase in the money supply. Others still hold that inflation is the actual increase in the money supply.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

Correct, provided the demand for the currency is there it'll keep its value. As you can see from current interest rates, demand for the $ is just fine. Hyperinflation in a deflationary environment is a boogeyman pimped by people who have no idea how finance or economics work.

Deflationary because consumption hit a wall, to which the response is predictably government spending trillions of dollars it doesn't have and will have future inflationary effects.

And on what planet do you see the demand for the dollar is high? High compared to the Zimbabwean dollar, sure.

Deflation for many reasons. For the fact that "wealth", in the form of housing, stocks, and current consumption of future money through credit, have fallen or contracted.

Obviously the demand is much higher recently compared to the Euro, Pound, Ruble, Frank, among others.

Why do you tapdance around the future inflation? Is it because you know it's going to happen but don't want to admit the Paulbots are right about something? The only way out of this mess is higher inflation than we've seen for decades. Politicians may not control the Fed, but they sure can push it's hand through deficit spending. How many trillion dollar "stimulus" bills can be funded through debt before people quit loaning the US money? What will the Fed do at that point but crank up the press?

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
So couldn't we theoretically move to a copper standard if we wanted to? Its more bountiful and useful than gold (in many instances) anyway.

Nah, because gold believers want to fix the (paper) supply of money with a commodity like gold that is rare, disallowing a "spurious" and big increase in the supply of paper money that they believe causes debasement of currency (debasement = lower purchasing power, you can't buy the same goods for the same amount of dollars anymore). Of course, this theory of gold's superiority to strictly paper money (called "fiat") ignores velocity, and the reality that an increase in dollar transactions in recent decades has resulted in U.S. dollars becoming the world's reserve currency.

Besides, inflation has come to mean something different than it used to when our understanding of economics was pretty green just 100 years ago, so that's also where a lot of gold fanatics get confused.

So, is what you are saying, that money hasn't become less "valuable" because it has been exchanged at an increased rate? Basically it zeros out (or...comes close?) There's more actually money supply, but since more of it is exchanged, it doesn't cause inflation, or as much?

Correct, provided the demand for the currency is there it'll keep its value. As you can see from current interest rates, demand for the $ is just fine. Hyperinflation in a deflationary environment is a boogeyman pimped by people who have no idea how finance or economics work.

Deflationary because consumption hit a wall, to which the response is predictably government spending trillions of dollars it doesn't have and will have future inflationary effects.

And on what planet do you see the demand for the dollar is high? High compared to the Zimbabwean dollar, sure.

Deflation for many reasons. For the fact that "wealth", in the form of housing, stocks, and current consumption of future money through credit, have fallen or contracted.

Obviously the demand is much higher recently compared to the Euro, Pound, Ruble, Frank, among others.

Politicians may not control the Fed, but they sure can push it's hand through deficit spending.

Dang BoberFett you're on a roll.