Rolling Stone apologizes

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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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first lesson obviously is don't rape somebody. Second lesson is don't sleep with or be around a crazy woman who may decide to accuse you of rape because as you say/allude to, there are damn few accusations in society that can be 100% not grounded in any truth at all yet screw a guy's life up so severely.

Now I do believe Cosby is probably a serial rapist because damn so many people have accused him of it, but let us tone it down to say one accusation and assume it has no merit st all. That can still be destructive. He in particular seemed to be given a huge free pass by the media, probably over correcting to avoid accusations of racism, but most other people wouldn't be.

No, it's pretty much, don't put yourself in any situation which could result in a rape claim, none. Drinking + sex = no. Not unless you want to be screwed for life. It's about probability vs severity. Probability of an accusation is low but severity is very high.

I have a daughter and struggle with this. I can certainly understand the thought that any violation is a violation. However, you have to teach them that actions have consequences and if you increase your probability of something happening, then it just might happen and you need to prevent that. Situational awareness, responsibility for your actions, and being smart about your surroundings and your risk are key in minimizing risk. That isn't taught enough. Instead it's "it's everybody else's fault". The saying "lay with dogs, get fleas" has no meaning anymore.

I do believe something is wrong with Cosby, just don't know to what extent. The drug thing, not sure what to think there. It was a period where drugs were flying around.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,768
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Yes, tell me a "crime" where the "victim" takes utterly no responsibility and it is automatically assumed, 100% of the time, that the man is at fault, regardless of how the woman acted. This "crime" can be charged decades later with NO evidence other than he/she said. It's disgusting that people just say that women are a protected class, even from their own actions, and that they can magically call down the law whenever they feel like it.

I am 100% for prosecuting rape. I am 100% against this arbitrary war on men where women are a protected class.

From the agenda being pushed - Woman are considered dumb, helpless and incapable of rationalizing bad situations and are thought to have NO situational awareness.

You look at Lena Dunham. This guy was raked over the coals in his personal life and assumed to be guilty, all because some liberal troll harpy decided that he was a Republican and had to be punished. Now we see her publisher backing away, but nobody is actually apologizing to the guy and Dunham isn't coming forward to clear him. Why? Because it would discredit her.

Then there's Cosby. There isn't a fucking thing the guy could say to justify himself or defend himself. Not a fucking thing. The pattern? It's the 60s, 70s, and 80s, wealthy people had drugs. And now, all of the sudden, the guy is one of the biggest serial rapists on the planet. Ohh, no, don't dare say that some of these women were attracted to his personality, or power, or popularity, or wanted to just fuck a celeb. Nope, he was an evil drugging rapist. Maybe he was, but how could he defend himself decades later?

If he goes on the attack, he's a slut shaming monster. If he defends himself, he's preventing other women from coming forward. He blames her, he's blaming the victim. He calls them extortionists, he's shaming again.

When you look you see what you see. When I look I see what I see. What I see is the reality of he said she said played out before the public. Some will believe the woman, automatically and reflexively, some the man. All of this happens, not because there's a war on men but because people believe without evidence. Look at some of the views some of the crazies have about the economy. They have them because they don't know anything, but have emotions that make them want to believe this and that. It seems to me that you are in your own way here also expressing some emotional bias. I don't know why, but that's how it looks to me. The greatest stupidity on earth, it seems to me, is to have an opinion and then believe in it. I believe that it requires a certain kind of humility to do that. I hate injustice as much as you do, but I don't think this injustice is the result of a war on men. It is a result of people believing what they want to believe without regard to facts.

If you are accused of anything, innocent or guilty, it is a kind of tarnish because people allow garbage to influence their opinions. People who are modest and don't jump to conclusions are humiliated for not having opinions.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
When you look you see what you see. When I look I see what I see. What I see is the reality of he said she said played out before the public. Some will believe the woman, automatically and reflexively, some the man. All of this happens, not because there's a war on men but because people believe without evidence. Look at some of the views some of the crazies have about the economy. They have them because they don't know anything, but have emotions that make them want to believe this and that. It seems to me that you are in your own way here also expressing some emotional bias. I don't know why, but that's how it looks to me. The greatest stupidity on earth, it seems to me, is to have an opinion and then believe in it. I believe that it requires a certain kind of humility to do that. I hate injustice as much as you do, but I don't think this injustice is the result of a war on men. It is a result of people believing what they want to believe without regard to facts.

If you are accused of anything, innocent or guilty, it is a kind of tarnish because people allow garbage to influence their opinions. People who are modest and don't jump to conclusions are humiliated for not having opinions.

Yes, but we are being conditioned to automatically and nearly incontrovertibly believe the woman. Look a the UVA thing, RS had to go and walk back their original statement since so many condemned them for "blaming the victim". They did this for Duke Rape and numerous other cases. Look at Lena Dunham, she doesn't want to admit that she was wrong for at least indirectly implicating Barry-One. Why? Because they want the ultimate power of persecution.

So what happens if I tell my sons to just stay away from women when partying or whatever? Then women will say "well, we aren't evil, how dare you accuse us of all being accusing harpies". Well, that's what they are. They want to be able to persecute but not have anybody accuse them of being able to persecute.

This is the same as those who defend poor behavior in the black culture with calls for racism. Bring up single mothers, which has been proven to be a huge negative for social development, racism. Defend Officer Wilson, racism. Then if you say "Well, I'm not racist, I have black friends". Then it's, "Well, you don't have enough black friends, you weren't raised black, therefore you are racist". It's the same bullshit defense. Any defense against the claim is further proof of the claim.

This is how liberals try to shut down the debate in these cases and declare ultimate victory, they turn every argument back on you with claims of Ruling Patriarchy or Racism.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,768
6,770
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LegendKiller: Yes, but we are being conditioned to automatically and nearly incontrovertibly believe the woman.

M: What do you mean we are being conditioned. There is some kind of evil society out there. I told you that we have had thousands of years of holding back and mistreating women simply on the basis of sex. Now in an supposedly enlightened and superior Western world, women are finally beginning to walk the journey to greater equality and you focus only on some examples of overreaction. Please. There is nobody conditioning anybody. It happens mechanically. Whenever the lid of repression is removed there is always excess. This is why a pendulum will swing through the point it will eventually come to rest.

Are you being conditioned by the fact that others are being conditioned. I am not. I speak out against this very conditioning. I am asking for equal and unbiased assessment of rape charges. That's it. I am not for or against women or for or against men. If I have no real facts I don't judge.

L: Look a the UVA thing, RS had to go and walk back their original statement since so many condemned them for "blaming the victim". They did this for Duke Rape and numerous other cases. Look at Lena Dunham, she doesn't want to admit that she was wrong for at least indirectly implicating Barry-One. Why? Because they want the ultimate power of persecution.

M: No, I am going to look at what I believe to be the millions of men and women just like me who do not judge reflexively, who do not want to see any man accused falsely or any truthful woman not believed.

L: So what happens if I tell my sons to just stay away from women when partying or whatever? Then women will say "well, we aren't evil, how dare you accuse us of all being accusing harpies". Well, that's what they are. They want to be able to persecute but not have anybody accuse them of being able to persecute.

M: I would worry more, if I were you, as to what I would be telling my sons about their Mother.

L: This is the same as those who defend poor behavior in the black culture with calls for racism. Bring up single mothers, which has been proven to be a huge negative for social development, racism. Defend Officer Wilson, racism. Then if you say "Well, I'm not racist, I have black friends". Then it's, "Well, you don't have enough black friends, you weren't raised black, therefore you are racist". It's the same bullshit defense. Any defense against the claim is further proof of the claim.

M: Has centuries of racism left deep scars o the psyche of many many blacks, and has white guilt led to blame of others as racist who may not be? Yes. We see the same inevitable excesses of rebound. Damaged people are full of anger.

So we have the situation, in my opinion, where for centuries men have been able to victimize women with little social repercussions and now that has begun to change and now it may happen that some of the group that has had the free ride are getting their turn in the barrel. And the howls of agony, oh my God. It isn't fair but the misery is more evenly distributed. All of a sudden in our culture, men are concerned about justice. Isn't it funny how things always come down to whose ox is gored. If you don't want to suffer the consequences of rebound, worry about the injustice suffered by the other or man up to the recoil that will come.

This is how liberals try to shut down the debate in these cases and declare ultimate victory, they turn every argument back on you with claims of Ruling Patriarchy or Racism.[/QUOTE]
 

gamervivek

Senior member
Jan 17, 2011
490
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91
Matters are such under this unrighteous combination that how- ever men may laugh at it and make jokes, they do not willingly travel with single unknown female companions in railway carriages. They know very well that for a man to have the finger of a woman pointed at him with a charge of a sexual offence is to secure that man's extinction, no matter what the verdict of a jury may be. In 1881 (Lond. Med. Gazette ) a case was tried in which a girl, to shield 48 herself against her equal share of guilt, charged her partner in it with the crime of rape. The jury could hardly be got to acquit the innocent man even though the prosecutrix had to admit that she never called out, her mother sleeping in the next room, because she was afraid her cries would waken the old lady."
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Guy gets basically put on trial without his knowledge by the school, without proper due process or effective representation, school arbiter flat out lies in her summary of findings, guy forced out of school and now no one will take him as a transfer.

It would be funny if that guy sued the school arbitrator, the girl, and whoever else was involved in defaming him (along with the school itself). The arbitrator would not have any sort of immunity since whatever he might say in a university kangaroo court is not the same thing as testimony before a real court.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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They won't because they'd also have to sue the other women that are reporting similar experiences with the chapter. She's not the only one, just the one the article focused on. They're in trouble and they know it.

I don't see why they shouldn't bring the other women into, it also. The biggest problem is whether or not the burden of proof in a defamation suit would be on the defendants or the plaintiffs.

For a private individual plaintiff (person, not organization) the burden would probably be on whoever made the defamatory statement to prove the truth of the statement. However, because the fraternity itself might be seen as a "public figure" the burden of proof might be on the fraternity to prove that the allegations are false.

So, it might make more sense for individual members to file suit as individuals, assuming that they, personally, have been defamed in some sort of a way.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
It would be funny if that guy sued the school arbitrator, the girl, and whoever else was involved in defaming him (along with the school itself). The arbitrator would not have any sort of immunity since whatever he might say in a university kangaroo court is not the same thing as testimony before a real court.

Reading that made my blood boil - I hope he gets justice!

Girl has sex with guy, girl's mom finds diary detailing how much she is sleeping around, regrets sleeping with guy now that her mother has found her diary, and so accuses guy of rape.

He should get a multi million dollar settlement from the university and she should go to prison.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
8,762
30
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Reading that made my blood boil - I hope he gets justice!

Girl has sex with guy, girl's mom finds diary detailing how much she is sleeping around, regrets sleeping with guy now that her mother has found her diary, and so accuses guy of rape.

He should get a multi million dollar settlement from the university and she should go to prison.
The guy suing the school is seen as "male entitlement." :rolleyes:
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Thought this was interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...345e42-7fcb-11e4-81fd-8c4814dfa9d7_story.html

It was 1 a.m. on a Saturday when the call came. A friend, a University of Virginia freshman who earlier said she had a date that evening with a handsome junior from her chemistry class, was in hysterics. Something bad had happened.

Arriving at her side, three students —“Randall,” “Andy” and “Cindy” as they were identified in an explosive Rolling Stone account — told The Washington Post that they found their friend in tears. Jackie appeared traumatized, saying her date ended horrifically, with the older student parking his car at his fraternity, asking her to come inside, and then forcing her to perform oral sex on a group of five men.

In their first interviews about the events of that September 2012 night, the three friends separately told The Post that their recollections of the encounter diverge from how Rolling Stone portrayed the incident in a story about Jackie’s alleged gang rape at a U-Va. fraternity. The interviews also provide a richer account of Jackie’s interactions immediately after the alleged attack, and suggest that the friends are skeptical of her account.

The scene with her friends was pivotal in the article, as it alleged that the friends were callously apathetic about a beaten, bloodied, injured classmate reporting a brutal gang rape at the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity. The account alleged that the students worried about the effect it might have on their social status, how it might reflect on Jackie during the rest of her collegiate career, and how they suggested not reporting it. It set up the article’s theme: That U-Va. has a culture that is indifferent to rape.

“It didn’t happen that way at all,” Andy said.
Students held a candlelight vigil to raise awareness on sexual assault Friday night as Rolling Stone cited “discrepancies” in an article that reported a gang rape in a campus fraternity. (Reuters)

Instead, the friends remember being shocked. Though they did not notice any blood or visible injuries, they said they immediately urged Jackie to speak to police and insisted that they find her help. Instead, they said, Jackie declined and asked to be taken back to her dorm room. They went with her — two of them said they spent the night — seeking to comfort Jackie in what appeared to be a moment of extreme turmoil.

“I mean obviously we were very concerned for her,” Andy said. “We tried to be as supportive as we could be.”

The three students agreed to be interviewed on the condition that The Post use the same aliases as appeared in Rolling Stone because of the sensitivity of the subject.

They said there are mounting inconsistencies with the original narrative in the magazine. The students also expressed suspicions about Jackie’s allegations from that night. They said the name she provided as that of her date did not match anyone at the university, and U-Va. officials confirmed to The Post that no one by that name has attended the school.

And photographs that were texted to one of the friends showing her date that night actually were pictures depicting one of Jackie’s high school classmates in Northern Virginia. That man, now a junior at a university in another state, confirmed that the photographs are of him and said he barely knew Jackie and hasn’t been to Charlottesville for at least six years.

The friends said they never were contacted or interviewed by the pop culture magazine’s reporters or editors. Though vilified in the article as coldly indifferent to Jackie’s ordeal, the students said they cared deeply about their friend’s well-being and safety. Randall said that they made every effort to help Jackie that night.

“She had very clearly just experienced a horrific trauma,” Randall said. “I had never seen anybody acting like she was on that night before and I really hope I never have to again. ... If she was acting on the night of Sept. 28, 2012, then she deserves an Oscar.”
U-Va. timeline

They also said Jackie’s description of what happened to her that night differs from what she told Rolling Stone. In addition, information that Jackie gave the three friends about one of her attackers, called “Drew” in Rolling Stone, differed significantly from details she later told The Post, Rolling Stone and friends from sexual assault awareness groups on campus. The three said Jackie did not specifically identify a fraternity that night.

The Rolling Stone article also said that Randall declined to be interviewed, “citing his loyalty to his own frat.” He told The Post that he never was contacted by Rolling Stone and would have agreed to an interview. The article’s writer, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, did not respond to requests for comment this week.

Rolling Stone also declined to comment, citing an internal review of the story. The magazine has apologized for inaccuracies and discrepancies in the published report.

The 9,000-word Rolling Stone article appeared online in late November and led with the brutal account of Jackie’s alleged sexual assault. In the article, Jackie said she attended a date function at the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity in the fall of 2012 with a lifeguard she said she met at the university pool. During the party, Jackie said her date “Drew” lured her into a dark room where seven men gang-raped her in an attack that left her bloodied and injured. In earlier interviews with The Post, Jackie stood by the account she provided to Rolling Stone.

Palma Pustilnik, a lawyer representing Jackie, issued a statement Wednesday morning asking that journalists refrain from contacting Jackie or her family. The Post generally does not identify victims of sexual assaults and has used Jackie’s real nickname at her request.

Seems pretty clear now to me that a dishonest drama queen made up and escalated a victimization tale until meeting up with a disreputable "journalist" whose agenda fit that story. One of the friends was actually texted pictures of her date - which turned out to be someone from her home town - whom she barely knew.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
8,762
30
91
Thought this was interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...345e42-7fcb-11e4-81fd-8c4814dfa9d7_story.html

Seems pretty clear now to me that a dishonest drama queen made up and escalated a victimization tale until meeting up with a disreputable "journalist" whose agenda fit that story. One of the friends was actually texted pictures of her date - which turned out to be someone from her home town - whom she barely knew.
Even if she embellished her story (maliciously or not) it is imperative that journalists fact check the story. Eredly and the Rolling Stone dropped the ball and deserve the backlash.

The other part of the story is that 'social justice' has seemed to have taken over a good portion of the media with its 'I believe' mantra. At this point a story can be published that males lined up for ten miles to rape a girl and they'll believe it without question.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,768
6,770
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Even if she embellished her story (maliciously or not) it is imperative that journalists fact check the story. Eredly and the Rolling Stone dropped the ball and deserve the backlash.

The other part of the story is that 'social justice' has seemed to have taken over a good portion of the media with its 'I believe' mantra. At this point a story can be published that males lined up for ten miles to rape a girl and they'll believe it without question.
Probably just like you believe what you posted here without question even though it is obviously absurd.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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Reading that made my blood boil - I hope he gets justice!

Girl has sex with guy, girl's mom finds diary detailing how much she is sleeping around, regrets sleeping with guy now that her mother has found her diary, and so accuses guy of rape.

He should get a multi million dollar settlement from the university and she should go to prison.

If you're referring to the Stettler v. University of Michigan case, it looks like the University is currently going through the motions of trying to get it tossed out of court. I read the Plaintiff's complaint last night, and I doubt the University will succeed.

It would be fun to watch that case go through discovery and then for all of the dirt to come out. ("So Ms. Cowan, have you ever found an accused male to be not guilty?") However, in all likelihood, it will settle out of court for a secret and undisclosed amount of money, and the villains in the case (Cowan and all) will not suffer one iota. (The money will come from the University's endowment, insurance company, and perhaps increased tuition.)

I hope that these early lawsuits encourage other male victims of university kangaroo courts to sue.
 

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
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The University of Virginia chapter of Phi Kappa Psi announced Monday that the fraternity house will file a lawsuit against Rolling Stone, calling the magazine’s reporting that described an alleged gang-rape by some of its members “reckless.”

The lawsuit comes a day after Rolling Stone editors retracted a Nov. 19 story “A Rape on Campus,” that portrayed the chilling account of brutal sexual assault allegedly occurring in the Phi Kappa Psi house at U-Va. in 2012. A Columbia University report issued Sunday described significant lapses by the magazine’s staff while reporting the gang-rape allegations and the story’s writer, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, and the publication’s managing editor, Will Dana, apologized for the deeply flawed account. But the fraternity noted that Erdely did not apologize directly to the Phi Psi chapter at U-Va.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nity-announces-lawsuit-against-rolling-stone/
 

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
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Stay classy RS.

CHARLOTTESVILLE — A federal court jury decided Friday that a Rolling Stone journalist defamed a former University of Virginia associate dean in a 2014 magazine article about sexual assault on campus that included a debunked account of a fraternity gang rape.

The 10-member jury concluded that the Rolling Stone reporter, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, was responsible for defamation, with actual malice, in the case brought by Nicole Eramo, a U-Va. administrator who oversaw sexual violence cases at the time of the article’s publication. The jury also found the magazine and its parent company, Wenner Media, responsible for defaming Eramo, who has said her life’s work helping sexual assault victims was devastated as a result of Rolling Stone’s article and its aftermath.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...f407fa-a1e8-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html