Right to Work Vs. Forced Union

[WHAMPOM]

The other reason unions are evil scum is because they are heavily involved in politics. It's bad enough that you could be forced to have to pay dues to a productivity-destroying union, but in forced union states you can be forced to (indirectly) provide funding for scummy politicians and their campaigns since the unions spend a lot of their money on politics.

Unlike companies contributing to politicians using money skimmed off the profits of the consumer?

 

[DrPizza]

I have found that a union will protect workers that really should be fired, just because they are in the union.

I think to clarify this - at least the unions I'm familiar with - they make sure that the employer follows due process in firing an employee. They don't "protect" the employee other than that. They don't allow an employer to simply fire an employee for no reason at all.

Another comment - someone above was bragging about how he worked 12 hour days and "guessed" that unions wouldn't allow that. He got paid *time and a half" for all those 44 extra hours during the week! Well, your guess is wrong. My son's union requires him to work SIXTEEN hour days, 7 days a week when needed for emergencies hurricanes, etc. He frequently gets to work 12 hour days. Non-emergency work - time and a half. But, when it's an emergency type of situation, it's double time, for all 16 hours each day, 7 days a week. While you might think "that isn't fair." Go ahead - call your furnace repair guy at 3am and tell him he has to come to your house right away. You're paying extra for emergency services. (my son doesn't work in that type of business) Why should the company get to charge more for emergency work, but the employees not make more?

Another comment: someone whined that all the nurses should be rounded up and shot for going on strike. I'm going to wager that wages were only a minor issue for them to go on strike. And, generally, a strike is the last resort to force management to change something. I would bet that the number one issue was safety as staffing issues. i.e. they were typically scheduled for more patients per nurse than is typically recommended for safe nursing practices - and in the case of call-ins, would be chronically short staffed.

 

[ShawnD1]

Another comment: someone whined that all the nurses should be rounded up and shot for going on strike. I'm going to wager that wages were only a minor issue for them to go on strike. And, generally, a strike is the last resort to force management to change something. I would bet that the number one issue was safety as staffing issues. i.e. they were typically scheduled for more patients per nurse than is typically recommended for safe nursing practices - and in the case of call-ins, would be chronically short staffed.

That's exactly what the strike was about. The conservative government slashed the health care budget so hospitals were continually short staffed. That's definitely a reason to be upset, but I don't understand how killing your patients is a good way to go about protesting.
Who do you think gives people their medications in hospitals? You guessed it. Nurses do that. The ones who are not working and are striking. So who's there to give your mom her blood clot medication that is keeping her alive at this moment? Even if you're down at the hospital during this strike, you can't just walk up to the drug counter and ask for random drugs. Only a nurse or doctor can do that.

The union leaders responsible for that should be charged with whatever it's called when you take hostages. Give me the money or I kill this person who is fed through IV and needs a new bag every few hours.

Pretty much anyone in a civil service job should be charged with some kind of crime if they go on strike. What the heck do you do if the people at the water treatment plant decide to shut it all down and go on strike for a couple weeks? Do you just wait for people to die or do you send in police officers with guns and tell the water treatment people to get it running again before each and every one of them is executed? I think the later makes more sense. The lives of a million people are at stake.

 

[Red Dawn]

That's exactly what the strike was about. The conservative government slashed the health care budget so hospitals were continually short staffed. That's definitely a reason to be upset, but I don't understand how killing your patients is a good way to go about protesting.
Who do you think gives people their medications in hospitals? You guessed it. Nurses do that. The ones who are not working and are striking. So who's there to give your mom her blood clot medication that is keeping her alive at this moment? Even if you're down at the hospital during this strike, you can't just walk up to the drug counter and ask for random drugs. Only a nurse or doctor can do that.

The union leaders responsible for that should be charged with whatever it's called when you take hostages. Give me the money or I kill this person who is fed through IV and needs a new bag every few hours.

Pretty much anyone in a civil service job should be charged with some kind of crime if they go on strike. What the heck do you do if the people at the water treatment plant decide to shut it all down and go on strike for a couple weeks? Do you just wait for people to die or do you send in police officers with guns and tell the water treatment people to get it running again before each and every one of them is executed? I think the later makes more sense. The lives of a million people are at stake.

No you fire them and hire someone to take their place. If you forced people to work under the threat of incarceration it's no different than Svoiet Russia under Stalin.

 

[ShawnD1]

No you fire them and hire someone to take their place. If you forced people to work under the threat of incarceration it's no different than Svoiet Russia under Stalin.

You can't fire them. That's the whole point of having a union. It's impossible to fire them.

If they really thought the situation was that bad, they would quit. I was dating a nurse who really did quit and get a job in another province and it was all because she felt overworked. There is nothing holding them to that job and they can quit any time they want. The fact that they don't quit shows that they're just a bunch of assholes who feel like taking the entire city hostage whenever they feel like it.

Where does this bullshit stop? Would you be ok with the police doing that? Imagine the entire city's police force going on strike. You call 911 and nobody comes. You could stab anyone you want. People could stab you. People are breaking into your home, you can't defend yourself, and the police are not coming. "oh sorry, we're on strike"
No, fuck that. You can't strike when you're in that position. You can't just let people die and use that as some kind of power move.



But enough of my ranting. What do you think is the solution to that strike issue? Nurses are on strike and people are dying because of it. What do you do? Well I guess you give in. Since that worked so well, they do it again a month later and even more people die this time. So you give in again. Cool. Let's have another strike a couple months from now. How many people need to die before you put your foot down and declare that illegal?

 

[DrPizza]

Hurrrr I'm going to abandon my patients and let people die because I want more moneeeeeey.

That's exactly what the strike was about. The conservative government slashed the health care budget so hospitals were continually short staffed. That's definitely a reason to be upset, but I don't understand how killing your patients is a good way to go about protesting.

So, you're an anti-union lying piece of shit. That's all you are. First, you said it was about wages. Then, without even looking to see which case it was, I called you on it, because I've never heard of nurses striking simply over wages. For your information, people DO DIE due to staffing shortages. The nursing strike most likely saved lives in the long run, and in the short run, the patients weren't abandoned - doctors probably had to work extra hours to cover for the nurses, contracted nurses were brought in, etc. You seem to be claiming that no one was there to care for them at all. Wrong.

Nurses are on strike and people are dying because of it.

Show me one link of a person dying directly as a result of the nurses being on strike. Generally, when nurses strike, some stay on duty while the others picket. They don't abandon their patients altogether. Further, adminstrative services are given plenty of advance notice that they have contracted nurses ready to come in. So, quite simply, you're making up lies to further your anti-union agenda. Or, in short, you're full of shit.


So, in the long run, it a unionized nursing staff that has led to your loved ones having adequate care while they are in the hospital. Because, without the power of unions, nursing staffs are stretched shorter and shorter, leading to inadequate care, more med errors, etc.

And, your last paragraph after your "enough of my lying <fixed>" is just unjustified fear mongering speculation. You seem to think that the only purpose of unions is to increase wages. And you seem to completely be overlooking the concept of contracts. You see, once an agreement is reached, there is a contract between management and labor. Thus your suggestion that they could go on strike every month is retarded. Edit: gee, I even googled to see what information I could find. The first article I came across points out the same thing - "The hospitals have created contingency plans to prepare for a strike." You're full of shit with the "patient's will die!" anti-union fear mongering.

 

[nobodyknows]

Yeah but raising the wages for everyone increases the cost of goods and services for everyone. People making 70 million will still be super rich compared to everyone else.

LOL, perhaps they could give a decent raise to their employees if they weren't paying all the bigwigs 10's of millions of dollars and they wouldn't have to raise the cost of their products one cent?

 

[nobodyknows]

You can't fire them. That's the whole point of having a union. It's impossible to fire them.

Impossible? Really? I can believe it's harder, but not immpossible. In a right-to-work state they can fire you because they didn't like the color of your t-shirt. As a blue collar worker, which option would you choose?

 

[Red Dawn]

You can't fire them. That's the whole point of having a union. It's impossible to fire them.

If they really thought the situation was that bad, they would quit. I was dating a nurse who really did quit and get a job in another province and it was all because she felt overworked. There is nothing holding them to that job and they can quit any time they want. The fact that they don't quit shows that they're just a bunch of assholes who feel like taking the entire city hostage whenever they feel like it.

Where does this bullshit stop? Would you be ok with the police doing that? Imagine the entire city's police force going on strike. You call 911 and nobody comes. You could stab anyone you want. People could stab you. People are breaking into your home, you can't defend yourself, and the police are not coming. "oh sorry, we're on strike"
No, fuck that. You can't strike when you're in that position. You can't just let people die and use that as some kind of power move.



But enough of my ranting. What do you think is the solution to that strike issue? Nurses are on strike and people are dying because of it. What do you do? Well I guess you give in. Since that worked so well, they do it again a month later and even more people die this time. So you give in again. Cool. Let's have another strike a couple months from now. How many people need to die before you put your foot down and declare that illegal?

Blah,blah... Reagan didn't have a problem firing the Air Traffic Controllers when they went on strike.

 

[Steeplerot]

Impossible? Really? I can believe it's harder, but not immpossible. In a right-to-work state they can fire you because they didn't like the color of your t-shirt. As a blue collar worker, which option would you choose?

The one that fits their mindset. Their own interests and common sense to look out for themselves have fallen by the wayside long ago, sacrificed to the altar of talk radio cult rhetoric.

 

[JD50]

The one that fits their mindset. Their own interests and common sense to look out for themselves have fallen by the wayside long ago, sacrificed to the altar of talk radio cult rhetoric.

So what you're saying is that you feel the need to join a union because you're in fear of being fired for wearing the wrong color shirt?

Living in fear again, sure you're not a conservative?

 

[feralkid]

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[feralkid]

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Sorry.

 

[JD50]

What's wrong with feralkid? And why do you have so many extra new lines in your sig?

 

[Steeplerot]

So what you're saying is that you feel the need to join a union because you're in fear of being fired for wearing the wrong color shirt?

Living in fear again, sure you're not a conservative?

Who said anything about a shirt? Comprehension and context are your new watchwords of the day comrade.

 

[pcgeek11]

Blah,blah... Reagan didn't have a problem firing the Air Traffic Controllers when they went on strike.

That is because they had a law against this.

" At a press conference in the White House Rose Garden that same day, President Reagan responded with a stern ultimatum: The strikers were to return to work within 48 hours or face termination. As federal employees the controllers were violating the no-strike clause of their employment contracts. In 1955 Congress had made such strikes a crime punishable by a fine or one year of incarceration -- a law upheld by the Supreme Court in 1971. "

 

[JD50]

Who said anything about a shirt? Comprehension and context are your new watchwords of the day comrade.

The person you quoted. Why are you living in fear of losing your job unless you have a union to protect you?

 

[Steeplerot]

The person you quoted. Why are you living in fear of losing your job unless you have a union to protect you?

Because getting fired over personal retribution of a superior or other trivial matters because someone can tends to cramp your lifestyle. It is part of the whole adult responsible working for a living thing.

Not being at the whim of someone who is in the position he is in most likely because he knows/related to someone (and is probably a slacker always looking for a fall guy) or is a power tripping a-hole.

This is the modern corrupt business world in the USA. A good amount of folks out there in that glorious utopia of the free market Conservatives want for us will screw you first chance they get for a buck in reality.

This is why I work for myself. And get shit in writing. If you are a employee of someone else having representation is just as logical as using a insurance plan. Why go on your own when the powers against you have lawyers and massive amounts of cash against you? Dumb to isolate yourself as a worker, but that is what they want.

 

[pcgeek11]

Most major employers have a process and a set of rules in place for discipline of employees. And a progressive scale leading up to termination for employees that do not correct the errors of their ways.

They do at my employer which is non union and they stick to the rules even though it is a right to work state ( South Carolina ). They have many benefits not seen in Union shops also.

An apprentice program to help advance unskilled labor into skilled positions.
100&#37; company paid pension.
401K and 75% on the dollar company match.
40 hrs a year paid personal time.
up to 30 days paid vacation a year.
1.5X an hour over 40 hours.
2X an hour on Sundays.
2.5 an hour on Holidays.
11 paid holidays a year.
Tuition assistance for college or tech schools.

Maybe this is why I am biased.

 

[halik]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!
Damn, I think beer came out my nose. You've really got to get out of the basement more.
Capitalism by human nature is the definition of exploitation.
All corporations and most businesses exploit women, single men and anyone else they can find regardless of media exposure.
Supply and demand, like statistics, applies only to the entire population. It is inaccurate and misleading when applied to individual companies.
Thanks for making me smile though.

I participate in capitalism out of my free will, specifically because I am better off participating than otherwise. Your argument is untenable.

 

[halik]

Because getting fired over personal retribution of a superior or other trivial matters because someone can tends to cramp your lifestyle. It is part of the whole adult responsible working for a living thing.

Not being at the whim of someone who is in the position he is in most likely because he knows/related to someone (and is probably a slacker always looking for a fall guy) or is a power tripping a-hole.

This is the modern corrupt business world in the USA. A good amount of folks out there in that glorious utopia of the free market Conservatives want for us will screw you first chance they get for a buck in reality.

This is why I work for myself. And get shit in writing. If you are a employee of someone else having representation is just as logical as using a insurance plan. Why go on your own when the powers against you have lawyers and massive amounts of cash against you? Dumb to isolate yourself as a worker, but that is what they want.

Interesting that myself and everyone i know has gone through life without these problems.
How would a union representative be better than an attorney is utterly beyond me in this situation, there are sharks out there that will jump on any wrongful firing claim.

The only explanation is that the claims are without any merit and no lawyer will help you... but a union rep can sweep them under the rug? You sure the problem isn't you?

BTW most companies settle over these matters, no one wants the bad press and corporate counsel doesn't come cheap.

 

[Steeplerot]

Interesting that myself and everyone i know has gone through life without these problems.

:whiste: Get a job?

btw..I myself have never been fired, but have been shorted on hours etc many times. Maybe you are either sheltered or too lazy to pay attention to how you are getting screwed. Or you are spouting baseless personal analogies like the rest with a anti-union agenda in here.

 

[pcgeek11]

:btw..I myself have never been fired, but have been shorted on hours etc many times.

Would this be another " baseless personal analogies " like the rest with a Pro-union agenda in here.

Hmmmm? I think it is.

The Union leadership screws just as many as the company bosses.

 

[Steeplerot]

I was making one of my own, pointing out the fact I myself can throw one in.

I think the big union bosses and the structure itself has been compromised for a long time. (President Wilson's relection and big unions caving to the Dems in WW1 imo -but I digress) But it does not mean that every union is one of the big ones. Local Unions help everyone, but on a larger scale, like the private sector it becomes top heavy quick, doubly so for a supposedly democratic institution instead of a profit driven one with a simple defined goal as the corporation has.

 

[halik]

:whiste: Get a job?

btw..I myself have never been fired, but have been shorted on hours etc many times. Maybe you are either sheltered or too lazy to pay attention to how you are getting screwed. Or you are spouting baseless personal analogies like the rest with a anti-union agenda in here.

I'm gainfully employed...

If I feel I'm getting screwed, I approach the proper people to get it straightened out. If you're getting shorted on the hours, go talk to the HR and payroll. I've never seen this to be an issue at any place I've worked at.

If the culture of that particular place doesn't fit you, you always have the option of finding something better...

I have noticed, however, that there is a group of "difficult" people that go through life with everyone-has-it-in-for-me mentality... and they seem to have the problems you've described at every place they work at. Again, are you sure it's not you?