Short and simple, sex is an act of love between two (or more) people. Sure, sometimes it is just about the physical side of it. But in any case it should be a mutual act. In this case, said husband used said wife for his sexual pleasure. The intent was not to express their mutual love, or even to just have a some naked-style fun. His intent was to get his rocks off because he "had" to. I'm sorry, but I can't think of a single justification for having sex with anyone (wife or not) while they are asleep after having told you they don't want to have sex just because you are horny. I'd have a serious talk with the husband about how the wife is not there just for his personal sexual needs.
I think I saw this on Dr Phil last week.
Edit: Not justifying what happened but I usually like being woken up that way.
Edit: Not justifying what happened but I usually like being woken up that way.
AnyMal
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 15,780
- 0
- 76
I am deeply saddened by so many ruthless, incensitive, and inappropriate comments here. I tried to give people the benefit of the doubt, but am running out of excuses. At first, it seemed that it was all due to being fresh out of puberty teenage attitude, but some of the comments are just plain ridiculous.
For those of you that attacked Isla in her brave attempt to share the most intimate and personal issue I have only one advice: Don't get married. Not now, not later, not ever. You WILL fail miserably. You perception of the woman as sex objects that is obligated to spread wide for you at the moments notice will get you in more hot water then you ever wished for. I will go so far as bet that most of you are virgins who know squat about opposite sex and you couldn't care less about the needs of others. If you think that people get married just to they can have sex at any time for any reason and without other party's consent, i have the news for you: it ain't that simple.
/rant
For those of you that attacked Isla in her brave attempt to share the most intimate and personal issue I have only one advice: Don't get married. Not now, not later, not ever. You WILL fail miserably. You perception of the woman as sex objects that is obligated to spread wide for you at the moments notice will get you in more hot water then you ever wished for. I will go so far as bet that most of you are virgins who know squat about opposite sex and you couldn't care less about the needs of others. If you think that people get married just to they can have sex at any time for any reason and without other party's consent, i have the news for you: it ain't that simple.
/rant
I really don't want to sound judgemental as I find Isla and most of her posts of a tender and gentle sort, but for your marriage's sake Isla I would recommend you sharing your thoughts and feelings with your husband and not with other people (even if it makes for entertaining posts). My wife and I agreed before we wed that any problems we had would be kept between us. The violation of trust involved in sharing one side of an issue with someone else can be devastating to the intimacy of a love relationship. I have always considered trust the foundation for a long-term commitment. Anything that eats at that trust will cause separation, in the one that violated that trust (from guilt) and when it gets back to the other that things were said (and it almost always does) a sense of violation that can fundamentally damage that foundation (trust).
I really think what happened was wrong, he violated your trust by acting when he had to know it wouldn't be ok with you because as your spouse he should "know" you. I just think you should of taken this to him in a calm manner the next day and explained that you thought him "porking" you was inappropriate and ask him to never do it without permission again. This way he will know more about you.
My advice is keep it between you and him and if necessary a marriage counselor or a divorce lawyer.
I really think what happened was wrong, he violated your trust by acting when he had to know it wouldn't be ok with you because as your spouse he should "know" you. I just think you should of taken this to him in a calm manner the next day and explained that you thought him "porking" you was inappropriate and ask him to never do it without permission again. This way he will know more about you.
My advice is keep it between you and him and if necessary a marriage counselor or a divorce lawyer.
Just to address a few issues here...
All I wanted was to get some feedback on what happened, not go into the details of my personal situation. A few pages ago, I was pretty much FORCED to admit it was me, and I'm not the type to lie.
Second, of COURSE I communicate with my husband. Very carefully in fact. I used to be less careful and it resulted in some extremely frightening scenes. I've been married for over 10 years and I am by nature a COMMUNICATOR. So if you think I haven't been trying to communicate in a healthy way with my husband, you've got it wrong. We go to a marriage counselor so I can actually bring up this kind of stuff without WW3 breaking out. We will continue going to see the counselor for a very long time, as I see it.
Third, I'm not concerned about the harsher judgments of me. No one here could possibly hurt my feelings. You don't know me and you don't know what I have been through in my life. So I read some posts and just know that you probably meant well. *shrug*
Fourth, while I didn't intend for this to be about me (I brought it up as a hypothetical situation) I do appreciate the support and help I have been given. It helped me get through the first couple of days of shock and now I feel like I can face this in the counselor's office.
Finally, no matter what anyone else thinks about me, I think it's All Good. Even this thread has been a good discussion. People need to talk about and think about things like this.... especially the population here. So don't worry about me.
Thank You, and Be Blessed~
All I wanted was to get some feedback on what happened, not go into the details of my personal situation. A few pages ago, I was pretty much FORCED to admit it was me, and I'm not the type to lie.
Second, of COURSE I communicate with my husband. Very carefully in fact. I used to be less careful and it resulted in some extremely frightening scenes. I've been married for over 10 years and I am by nature a COMMUNICATOR. So if you think I haven't been trying to communicate in a healthy way with my husband, you've got it wrong. We go to a marriage counselor so I can actually bring up this kind of stuff without WW3 breaking out. We will continue going to see the counselor for a very long time, as I see it.
Third, I'm not concerned about the harsher judgments of me. No one here could possibly hurt my feelings. You don't know me and you don't know what I have been through in my life. So I read some posts and just know that you probably meant well. *shrug*
Fourth, while I didn't intend for this to be about me (I brought it up as a hypothetical situation) I do appreciate the support and help I have been given. It helped me get through the first couple of days of shock and now I feel like I can face this in the counselor's office.
Finally, no matter what anyone else thinks about me, I think it's All Good. Even this thread has been a good discussion. People need to talk about and think about things like this.... especially the population here. So don't worry about me.
Thank You, and Be Blessed~
That does not sound good.
Isla, it sounds like you are working extremely hard to keep this marriage together, I wish you lots of luck, I hope it works out.
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
Originally posted by: starwarsdad
Originally posted by: alocurto
He should have known what he was getting into. Some people just don't like sex all the time... not me
Point granted, BUT what if both partners were happy with the physical part of the relationship prior to children, and now sex is nonexistent?
Kids change everything.
Leave, pay the child support, and find someone else to have sex with.
hey, it's better for her than him getting some behind her back..
Due to all your past experiences here at ATOT why would you knowingly post a thread like this for people to rip on?
You had to know everyone would know it was you and your husband you were talking about. I knew right from the start. Anyhow this comment of mine doesn't really have to do with what was posted, but I'm curious to know why you would post something of this context here and not in your own forum or ask your friends who I can actually say are some of the best people I've ever met on the internet. WTH would you even consider what anyone here would actually have to say when you have those friends who actually care about you?
It doesn't make sense to me... why you would take that for granted, then again it really doesn't have to make sense to me, does it?
I'm confident you know who I am, (lol who doesn't haha!) so you know of the other people I speak of. My question was sincere BTW .
You had to know everyone would know it was you and your husband you were talking about. I knew right from the start. Anyhow this comment of mine doesn't really have to do with what was posted, but I'm curious to know why you would post something of this context here and not in your own forum or ask your friends who I can actually say are some of the best people I've ever met on the internet. WTH would you even consider what anyone here would actually have to say when you have those friends who actually care about you?
It doesn't make sense to me... why you would take that for granted, then again it really doesn't have to make sense to me, does it?
I'm confident you know who I am, (lol who doesn't haha!) so you know of the other people I speak of. My question was sincere BTW .
The really fascinating thing about this question to me is both the range of opinions and the difficulty of choosing among them one that seems the best. On the one hand it looks, sounds really bad and on the other no big deal at all. My best guess is that this isn't so much an absolute moral question, but a case of not knowing how you feel. I have no real way on knowing for sure except through whatever insight I might have from looking at myself, but I'd guess that what could have happened is that you woke up enraged. However, because we all have been through a very deep conditioning not to express violent anger you stuffed it on the spot. You spoke of feeling fear of how your husband can react and how you are careful in how you talk to him. These are all vital skills in trying to meet other people with out adult to their adult, the inability to express pure rage, contempt and hate for another whom we also love means the feelings go under ground where they produce things like obsessive thinking and an inability to move on. Since I don't know you or your husband personally, the dynamics and history of your relationship except in insignificant detail and can't know how much of such feelings you're free to express and how much not, I can't really say for sure just how much having to swallow your real reaction could have played a part.
What does concern me a bit is that if you are having to eat your rage, either from external or internal pressure, your reaction to events will not be clean. They will pick up and carry the feelings that are being suppressed. What that could mean as just one of any number of examples is that if your husbands actions were caused by X and you feel unconsciously they were caused by your rage tainted Y then you will be looking for him to confess to Y and not X. You will be wanting him to eat Y, the anger you did not express. I find that especially troubling because you mentioned how he and his family have a history of abuse which they slough off and minimize. He would be an easy target to tar with having an inappropriate or sinister impulse. The whole thing could be maybe just as simple as oops, well I can't try that anymore. I don't know for sure about that, naturally, that could be my own sexism or bias at play, but as I try to put myself in his shoes I can't imagine how I could come to terms with the notion I had committed some really horrid crime. But then my problem could be that I'm sick just like him. Fascinating. I don't know how to know.
What does concern me a bit is that if you are having to eat your rage, either from external or internal pressure, your reaction to events will not be clean. They will pick up and carry the feelings that are being suppressed. What that could mean as just one of any number of examples is that if your husbands actions were caused by X and you feel unconsciously they were caused by your rage tainted Y then you will be looking for him to confess to Y and not X. You will be wanting him to eat Y, the anger you did not express. I find that especially troubling because you mentioned how he and his family have a history of abuse which they slough off and minimize. He would be an easy target to tar with having an inappropriate or sinister impulse. The whole thing could be maybe just as simple as oops, well I can't try that anymore. I don't know for sure about that, naturally, that could be my own sexism or bias at play, but as I try to put myself in his shoes I can't imagine how I could come to terms with the notion I had committed some really horrid crime. But then my problem could be that I'm sick just like him. Fascinating. I don't know how to know.
Another issue this thread highlights is the problem of people's reaction to an open exposure of personal conflict. There are those who feel such thinks shouldn't be talked about openly and those who feel it's fine.
A case for the first: Many people are assholes. The moment you open your inner life to a peak from the outside the voyeurs and snipers target you fast. Ah an opportunity to hit somebody where their weak, to put them down, to feel superior, or to wallow in this or that seamy tripe. This assumes a naiveté of the part of the teller that they haven't the inner resources and strengths to deal with such fools.
More importantly there is the notion of compact, that what happens between individuals should stay in the closet. How much abuse in the world depends on that pact. The idea is to protect the partner from exposure of their sin to others who will then ridicule them. This assumes the other person to be too weak to fend for themselves. It is really a protection of ones own feelings in the name of the partner despite the factual evidence such 'betrayal' does produce. Yes the partner will get the same sliming by fools that anybody else would. Does it really matter.
Who are we and what kind of protection do we need. If people are inherently evil, which I don't believe, there would perhaps be good reason to hide. We would have to protect our partners from justifiable prosecution, I guess. But if people are good, just screwed up, what is there to protect. What we do is protect ourselves from the lies there's something wrong with us. We are all terrified to learn the truth of how we feel about ourselves even though there's nothing really wrong. That's because we were taught to hate ourselves for nothing that was really wrong. We hate who we were and no longer allow ourselves to be. Truth about ourselves is a way back to the light. Hiding in a lie only perpetuates the lie there's something wrong. What is wrong is that we feel there's something wrong and can't allow ourselves to feel it because we think it's true. It isn't true and the support of pretext is just our attempt to avoid feeling how truly we feel there?s something wrong with us.
Humanity is sick, living upside down. We don't want to feel what it is we feel. Only by exposure to the inner secrets of others, the actual seeing that others feel the same as we can we begin to acquire the enormous courage it takes to go within. When you see one person and then another and another survive and blossom by diving into sh!t slowly but slowly we begin to mature and grow. To take a chance, to feel how bad we feel and live gives us strength to dive again and again. Blessed are those who open their hearts for they for they light our way.
No evil can befall a good person in this life or the next. A Sufi Saying
A case for the first: Many people are assholes. The moment you open your inner life to a peak from the outside the voyeurs and snipers target you fast. Ah an opportunity to hit somebody where their weak, to put them down, to feel superior, or to wallow in this or that seamy tripe. This assumes a naiveté of the part of the teller that they haven't the inner resources and strengths to deal with such fools.
More importantly there is the notion of compact, that what happens between individuals should stay in the closet. How much abuse in the world depends on that pact. The idea is to protect the partner from exposure of their sin to others who will then ridicule them. This assumes the other person to be too weak to fend for themselves. It is really a protection of ones own feelings in the name of the partner despite the factual evidence such 'betrayal' does produce. Yes the partner will get the same sliming by fools that anybody else would. Does it really matter.
Who are we and what kind of protection do we need. If people are inherently evil, which I don't believe, there would perhaps be good reason to hide. We would have to protect our partners from justifiable prosecution, I guess. But if people are good, just screwed up, what is there to protect. What we do is protect ourselves from the lies there's something wrong with us. We are all terrified to learn the truth of how we feel about ourselves even though there's nothing really wrong. That's because we were taught to hate ourselves for nothing that was really wrong. We hate who we were and no longer allow ourselves to be. Truth about ourselves is a way back to the light. Hiding in a lie only perpetuates the lie there's something wrong. What is wrong is that we feel there's something wrong and can't allow ourselves to feel it because we think it's true. It isn't true and the support of pretext is just our attempt to avoid feeling how truly we feel there?s something wrong with us.
Humanity is sick, living upside down. We don't want to feel what it is we feel. Only by exposure to the inner secrets of others, the actual seeing that others feel the same as we can we begin to acquire the enormous courage it takes to go within. When you see one person and then another and another survive and blossom by diving into sh!t slowly but slowly we begin to mature and grow. To take a chance, to feel how bad we feel and live gives us strength to dive again and again. Blessed are those who open their hearts for they for they light our way.
No evil can befall a good person in this life or the next. A Sufi Saying
What the f*ck is wrong with you? Once or twice a week? I can't imagine trying to put a limit on that.
If I get married and a girl tries to pull that sh*t on me, well, that's why she signed a pre-nump. If you are married it should be like 3 or 4 times a day.
If I get married and a girl tries to pull that sh*t on me, well, that's why she signed a pre-nump. If you are married it should be like 3 or 4 times a day.
WTF is wrong with YOU? So I guess if you get married and don't get sex 3 or 4 times a day, what are you going to do? Get divorced? Rape your wife? Cheat on her with someone who puts out 3-4 times a day?
And here I figured Undergonad to have a deformed half testicle. What kind of pansy can handle only 3 or 4 times a day. He must have been the runt of the litter.Originally posted by: Encryptic
WTF is wrong with YOU? So I guess if you get married and don't get sex 3 or 4 times a day, what are you going to do? Get divorced? Rape your wife? Cheat on her with someone who puts out 3-4 times a day?
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