Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"

[Ichinisan]

That was never really clear.
It took 20 years to get that fluid but it was never mentioned clearly what it does. Then they mention later on in the movie that it is fuel.
Strange... Talking about plot holes. A means to fuel makes sense. but fuel it self ?

I looked around and also at imdb :
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1136608/synopsis

Well, I thought it was clearly stated to be fuel before the guy got exposed to it. It was for that smaller craft to reach the mothership. That's another unfirgivable plot hole: The mothership wasn't capable of leaving. It was stranded for weeks (months?) before people cut it open and found the starving prawns inside. They suddenly pretend the only thing preventing them from leaving the planet is that they can't reach the mothership...?!

 

[Ichinisan]

So many questions, but in a good way I guess..

Why was that med pod configured to only handle male procedures? Was charlize really a man?

Probably answered already, but I'm browsing from a phone. Here goes:

I don't understand how anyone can miss this. Vickers and David were fully aware of Weyland's presence on the ship. The med pod was brought for Weyland.

 

[Ichinisan]

All in all I thought Prometheus was great, despite a few minor flaws. What sci-fi movies are flawless, really?

In your book, what qualifies as a major flaw? Just curious.

 

[Ichinisan]

I agree with someone above - I enjoyed watching it for the most part, but the massive plot holes are difficult to get around, and prevent it from being great.

Best recent sci fi movies... hm... avatar, star trek reboot, wall e ( ?), children of men. Haven't seen moon or inception. Do the comic book movies (Avengers, Iron Man etc) count?

Watch Moon. Great entertainment. :thumbsup:

 

[Chiropteran]

In your book, what qualifies as a major flaw? Just curious.

In sci-fi? Not much of anything, magic is just technology we don't understand, so almost any flaw can be written off as technology. I suppose if that was abused too much and used in a dues ex machina method it could be considered a major flaw.

I guess a major flaw could be poor special effects, where you can tell they are obviously faked. In Alien, for example, the chest burst scene just looks too fake by today's standards.

 

[Ichinisan]

Wow... I'm not going to call you stupid:

But I am going inform you that you made two statements that make you look stupid. The first being you're factually incorrect statement about wall-e, the second being that (without further support) you hated a movie that is hated, mostly, by people with particularly little ability to reason cognitively.

If you've got an interesting exegesis of either scrip to support what you say you will stop looking stupid (and be quite an asset to the conversation that's evolved in this thread surrounding sci-fi); otherwise you's just trolln'.

In his defense, WALL-E turned stupid (nearly intolerable) in the final act and Inception had way too much pew pew pew James Bond BS.

 

[Ichinisan]

In sci-fi? Not much of anything, magic is just technology we don't understand, so almost any flaw can be written off as technology. I suppose if that was abused too much and used in a dues ex machina method it could be considered a major flaw.

I guess a major flaw could be poor special effects, where you can tell they are obviously faked. In Alien, for example, the chest burst scene just looks too fake by today's standards.

That chestburster scene was one of the most memorable moments in the history of cinema...but it does look fake by today's standards.

So many people excuse bad sci-fi by saying that "fi = FICTION!!!111oneone"

...but the draw of sci-fi is that it's supposed to present something that you believe could be.

People seem to confuse "fiction" with fantasy. Fiction includes fantasy, but fantasy is only a genre within the realm of fiction. I personally can't stand how fantasy BS always invades the sci-fi genre (with a couple notable exceptions).


Back to the subject:
What constitutes a major flaw?

Vickers was killed because she stayed in the path of the rolling ship while running. Shaw was able to roll out of the way after it had already crushed Vickers. *ugh

The zombie was in a bizarre pose that no one could miss (legs bent around over shoulders), but then stands up from a normal crouched position.

The guy in charge of maps was in constant communication with the ship and got lost.

[redlettermedia]
The biologist was terrified of an alien that had been dead for 2,000+ years. Then he sees a penis-vagina worm that opens up and hisses exactly like a cobra, and he wants to stick his face in it.
[/redlettermedia]

Give me a "fake-looking" special effect any day. I'll gladly suspend disbelief.
For these unforgivable mistakes, it's simply not possible.

 

[BladeVenom]

Well, I thought it was clearly stated to be fuel before the guy got exposed to it. It was for that smaller craft to reach the mothership. That's another unfirgivable plot hole: The mothership wasn't capable of leaving. It was stranded for weeks (months?) before people cut it open and found the starving prawns inside. They suddenly pretend the only thing preventing them from leaving the planet is that they can't reach the mothership...?!

There was never anything wrong with the mothership. The prawns are some kind of hive society, and all the smart ones and leaders had gotten sick and were dying. That left just the workers who couldn't do anything on their own initiative.

District 9 was a much better movie than Prometheus.

 

[Ichinisan]

There was never anything wrong with the mothership. The prawns are some kind of hive society, and all the smart ones and leaders had gotten sick and were dying. That left just the workers who couldn't do anything on their own initiative.

District 9 was a much better movie than Prometheus.

I disagree. For each inexcusable mistake in Prometheus, there are 2 in District 9.

Why did they need to force the guy to test alien weapons and kill all those prawns? Couldn't they force any prawn to fire the weapons?

If the afflicted guy was valuable, why did MNU try to chop the arm off and try to kill him?

Why does he take so long to get into the nearly-invincible battle mech armored suit?

Why does he knock-out the alien that he needs and leave him for the mercenaries to find?

Why does he behave as if he's conflicted about saving the prawn that's his ONLY HOPE?

I could go on-and-on-and-on.

 

[CZroe]

There was never anything wrong with the mothership. The prawns are some kind of hive society, and all the smart ones and leaders had gotten sick and were dying. That left just the workers who couldn't do anything on their own initiative.

District 9 was a much better movie than Prometheus.

Oh! Ho ho ho h- ... NO.

 

[Ichinisan]

Oh! Ho ho ho h- ... NO.

The flaws with Prometheus reminded me of District 9 the entire time I was watching...both times I watched it.

 

[CZroe]

No. You said cellular fusion. Which means combining two cells to make one cell.

What I described is chemical synthesis using atmospheric gasses as raw material, much like photosynthesis.


And that would require temperatures in the gazillions, and render the aliens extremely radioactive and no way could they be a DNA based life form.

You know, we're really thinking about this too much.

Maybe it just... grows.

The fusion that we know to exist naturally, yes, but this is sci-fi. Cold fusion is a Holy Grail for a reason. Biological fusion is the stuff of science fiction too. I'm saying that they may have some kind of controlled fusion within their cellular functions. Photosynthesis does not use atmosphere alone for raw material. It's why plants have roots.

I was describing the scale of a matter-conversion mechanism and not using an established term when i said "some sort of cellular fusion." The term you refer to is called "cell fusion."

 

[ImpulsE69]

Wow... I'm not going to call you stupid:

But I am going inform you that you made two statements that make you look stupid. The first being you're factually incorrect statement about wall-e, the second being that (without further support) you hated a movie that is hated, mostly, by people with particularly little ability to reason cognitively.

If you've got an interesting exegesis of either scrip to support what you say you will stop looking stupid (and be quite an asset to the conversation that's evolved in this thread surrounding sci-fi); otherwise you's just trolln'.

You probably should read the REST of my posts in this thread before even attempt to counter me on this.

Secondly, WALL-E is a cartoon. I do not consider it science fiction. If you say well its about stuff that doesn't exist, that is damn near every cartoon. Which means Tom and Jerry are science fiction. Tell me otherwise. I'm sure it may be considered to be science fiction by you deep intellectual types, but it is a cartoon first and foremost.

Secondlyx2, I stand by hating Inception. I understood it just fine. It was just boring as hell to watch.

 

[CZroe]

You probably should read the REST of my posts in this thread before even attempt to counter me on this.

Secondly, WALL-E is a cartoon. I do not consider it science fiction. If you say well its about stuff that doesn't exist, that is damn near every cartoon. Which means Tom and Jerry are science fiction. Tell me otherwise. I'm sure it may be considered to be science fiction by you deep intellectual types, but it is a cartoon first and foremost.

Secondlyx2, I stand by hating Inception. I understood it just fine. It was just boring as hell to watch.

Excuse me, but most of the best sci-fi is animation. In particular, I think of a person by the name of "Katsuhio Otomo" (Akira, Memories, Steamboy). I guess Cowboy Bebop was a "space opera."

Wall-e is about a post-apocalyptic space-faring future where man has left the Earth and an artificial intelligence that evolves beyond its original programming. It's also a social commentary on the path that rampant consumerism could take us, especially once empowering corporations like governing entities. Sound familiar? Buy-n-Larg = Weyland Yutani. I don't see how Wall-e could be described as anything but "sci-fi" and anyone who doesn't see it is just being dense.

 

[Ichinisan]

Excuse me, but most of the best sci-fi is animation. In particular, I think of a person by the name of "Katsuhio Otomo" (Akira, Memories, Steamboy). I guess Cowboy Bebop was a "space opera."

Wall-e is about a post-apocalyptic space-faring future where man has left the Earth and an artificial intelligence that evolves beyond its original programming. It's also a social commentary on the path that rampant consumerism could take us, especially once empowering corporations like governing entities. Sound familiar? Buy-n-Larg = Weyland Yutani. I don't see how Wall-e could be described as anything but "sci-fi" and anyone who doesn't see it is just being dense.

Well, the last act of WALL-E is nearly intolerable for adults. Roly-poly fat people saving babies and such. It stops being sci-fi and turns into a kiddie adventure.

Same thing for acts 2 and 3 in Pixar's Up: Hard for adults to enjoy.

 

[BladeVenom]

I disagree. For each inexcusable mistake in Prometheus, there are 2 in District 9.

Not even close. Prometheus was questions with no answers. Not even the idiot who wrote the script to Prometheus had answers. All the characters, and most of the events in Prometheus just aren't logical.

Why did they need to force the guy to test alien weapons and kill all those prawns? Couldn't they force any prawn to fire the weapons?

To see it if would work. The weapons worked for the Prawns, but they wouldn't work for humans. That's what they wanted was to get the weapons to work for humans. That was explained in the movie.

If the afflicted guy was valuable, why did try to chop the arm off and try to kill him?

The Nigerian warlord was going to eat his hand, because he thought that would give him the power to use the Prawn technology.

Those Nigerians were a superstitious and uneducated lot. Although they still seemed smarter than the characters in Prometheus who were supposed to be doctorates.

Why does he take so long to get into the nearly-invincible battle mech armored suit?

It's complicated technology that wasn't made to fit humans. How can you complain about them not explaining minor technological matters in District 9 when they explain absolutely nothing in Prometheus. Even the minor technical details they give in Prometheus are factual wrong, or make no sense.

Why does he knock-out the alien that he needs and leave him for the mercenaries to find? Why does he behave as if he's conflicted about saving the prawn that's his ONLY HOPE?

The alien wasn't going to fix him there, but go back to his home planet. He panicked. He wasn't a brave man.

Wikus was just a minor bureaucrat who only got to his position because of his marriage to the boss's daughter. He's not supposed to be heroic, brave, or particularly smart.

Now compare that to the idiots in Prometheus who are supposed to be scientists on a trillion dollar mission. You'd think they'd be competent, screened, and psychologically tested, so only the best would be going. Yet they are dumber and more illogical than Wikus.

I could go on-and-on-and-on.

So could I. District 9 was a brilliant movie done on a relatively small budget. Prometheus seems like it was written by a 12 year old with ADD. If Ridley Scott hadn't been the director, Prometheus would have been panned by the critics as an incompetent incomplete mess.

 

[CZroe]

Not even close. Prometheus was questions with no answers. Not even the idiot who wrote the script to Prometheus had answers. All the characters, and most of the events in Prometheus just aren't logical.


To see it if would work. The weapons worked for the Prawns, but they wouldn't work for humans. That's what they wanted was to get the weapons to work for humans. That was explained in the movie.


The Nigerian warlord was going to eat his hand, because he thought that would give him the power to use the Prawn technology.

Those Nigerians were a superstitious and uneducated lot. Although they still seemed smarter than the characters in Prometheus who were suppose to be doctorates.


It's complicated technology that wasn't made to fit humans. How can you complain about them not explaining minor technological matters in District 9 when they explain absolutely nothing in Prometheus. Even the minor technical details they give in Prometheus are factual wrong, or make no sense.


The alien wasn't going to fix him there, but go back to his home planet. He panicked. He wasn't a brave man.

Wikus was just a minor bureaucrat who only got to his position because of his marriage to the boss's daughter. He's not suppose to be heroic, brave, or particularly smart.

Now compare that to the idiots in Prometheus who are suppose to be scientists on a trillion dollar mission. You'd think they'd be competent, screened, and psychologically tested, so only the best would be going. Yet they are dumber and more illogical than Wikus.


So could I. District 9 was brilliant movie done on a relatively small budget. Prometheus seems like it was written by a 12 year old with ADD. If Ridley Scott hadn't been the director, Prometheus would have been panned by the critics as an incompetent incomplete mess.

"SupposeD," dammit. A 12 year old writer should know that.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Excuse me, but most of the best sci-fi is animation. In particular, I think of a person by the name of "Katsuhio Otomo" (Akira, Memories, Steamboy). I guess Cowboy Bebop was a "space opera."

Wall-e is about a post-apocalyptic space-faring future where man has left the Earth and an artificial intelligence that evolves beyond its original programming. It's also a social commentary on the path that rampant consumerism could take us, especially once empowering corporations like governing entities. Sound familiar? Buy-n-Larg = Weyland Yutani. I don't see how Wall-e could be described as anything but "sci-fi" and anyone who doesn't see it is just being dense.

See but you assume I give a damn about anime. I don't for the most part. I GET your point, but it's still a kiddie movie first and foremost, and not anime.

 

[Gibsons]

In sci-fi? Not much of anything, magic is just technology we don't understand, so almost any flaw can be written off as technology. I suppose if that was abused too much and used in a dues ex machina method it could be considered a major flaw.

I guess a major flaw could be poor special effects, where you can tell they are obviously faked. In Alien, for example, the chest burst scene just looks too fake by today's standards.

Something a friend of mine stated, but I'll present it: it's probably better when they don't really try to explain stuff too deeply. Just let it happen to some degree and let the audience fill in the blanks. Like, midclorians and stuff.

 

[CZroe]

See but you assume I give a damn about anime. I don't for the most part. I GET your point, but it's still a kiddie movie first and foremost, and not anime.

Ugh. *I* don't particularly care for "anime." You, on the other hand, seem to think that "cartoon" and "anime" are strictly genres instead of presentation choices. I have never once in my life considered calling a CGI film "a cartoon," but it makes sense that you would when you close your mind and assume that it's impossible to make good sci-fi in animated form.

Secondly, WALL-E is a cartoon. I do not consider it science fiction.

"Cartoon?" How dismissive of you.

 

[Gibsons]

The fusion that we know to exist naturally, yes, but this is sci-fi. Cold fusion is a Holy Grail for a reason. Biological fusion is the stuff of science fiction too. I'm saying that they may have some kind of controlled fusion within their cellular functions. Photosynthesis does not use atmosphere alone for raw material. It's why plants have roots.

I was describing the scale of a matter-conversion mechanism and not using an established term when i said "some sort of cellular fusion." The term you refer to is called "cell fusion."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're talking about nuclear fusion occurring within cells. right?

Cellular fusion means fusion of cells.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Ugh. *I* don't particularly care for "anime." You, on the other hand, seem to think that "cartoon" and "anime" are strictly genres instead of presentation choices. I have never once in my life considered calling a CGI film "a cartoon," but it makes sense that you would when you close your mind and assume that it's impossible to make good sci-fi in animated form.


"Cartoon?" How dismissive of you.

So, if that's what we classify as sci-fi, then I guess everyone's "OMG that's not real, OMG that makes no sense, OMG you can't grow from nothing" comments about Prometheus can be dismissed. Because apparently the realism that everyone is worried about goes out the window and is perfectly acceptable if it's shot as a cartoon. Wait...so are you going to say that Short Circuit was a science fiction movie because it had a robot in it?

I don't deny sci-fi can be done as a cartoon, but Wall-E just doesn't meet it. It's a cute cuddly kiddy movie. I think you are blinded by your like of it. It's ok to like cartoons.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

See but you assume I give a damn about anime. I don't for the most part. I GET your point, but it's still a kiddie movie first and foremost, and not anime.

...Like star-wars, the original star-trek, back-to-the-future, and short circuit...

Animation is not a narrative genera. From grave of the fire flies to aqua-teen-hunger-force animation has spanned the gamut of narrative genera; further many narrative genera are mixed in stories.

I'm sure it may be considered to be science fiction by you deep intellectual types, but it is a cartoon first and foremost.

You are you aware that your personal tastes and preferences aren't what define genera, right; nor do mine.

I don't deny sci-fi can be done as a cartoon, but Wall-E just doesn't meet it.

Dictionary: Science Fiction: fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component

Wall-e was about a future star-cruse technology and trash-cleaning technology that form the essential orienting component of society.

My conclusion is that you are not stupid, but that you were ignorant (no shame in that, as Penn Adair said "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.")

 

[Ichinisan]

I disagree. For each inexcusable mistake in Prometheus, there are 2 in District 9.

Not even close. District 9 was questions with no answers. Not even the idiot who wrote the script to District 9 had answers. All the characters, and most of the events in District 9 just aren't logical.

Fixed.

I make no excuses for Prometheus and its horrible story / screenplay / script / writer, but District 9 was bad for all the same reasons; and the examples are far more egregious and numerous.

Why did they need to force the guy to test alien weapons and kill all those prawns? Couldn't they force any prawn to fire the weapons?

To see it if would work. The weapons worked for the Prawns, but they wouldn't work for humans. That's what they wanted was to get the weapons to work for humans. That was explained in the movie.

They tested and tested and tested, then made it obvious they were going to chop his arm off and had no regard for his life. Killing him wouldn't "make it work for humans." They behaved as if they wanted his arm. Couldn't they get the arm from any prawn?

Indeed. It's confirmed later that they are shooting-to-kill.

If the afflicted guy was valuable, why did try to chop the arm off and try to kill him?

The Nigerian warlord was going to eat his hand, because he thought that would give him the power to use the Prawn technology.

Those Nigerians were a superstitious and uneducated lot. Although they still seemed smarter than the characters in Prometheus who were suppose[d] to be doctorates.

I was talking about MNU scientists. Not the Nigerian gang.

...but since you brought-up the Nigerians, there was another horrendous plot point. Wikus was nearly killed by them and was unbelievably fortunate to escape. He wasted everyone in the room...EXCEPT THE LEADER. The leader was looking directly in his eyes and saying: "I *will* get you. I *will* kill you. I *will* eat your arm."

It makes no sense that the gang leader would talk that way to the guy with an alien weapon who just wasted everyone in the room (dozens of people) and he was in a completely helpless position.

It makes even less sense that Wikus doesn't kill him after he already blew away everyone else.

Sure enough, the gang leader returns and causes big trouble (to say the least).

Why does he take so long to get into the nearly-invincible battle mech armored suit?

It's complicated technology that wasn't made to fit humans. How can you complain about them not explaining minor technological matters in District 9 when they explain absolutely nothing in Prometheus. Even the minor technical details they give in Prometheus are factual wrong, or make no sense.

Nothing technical at all about this complaint. He fit perfectly fine. The viewer watched for a torturous amount of time while Wikus sat there acting like he was wondering: "What do I do? What do I do? What do I do?" ...and doing nothing. I waited and waited and waited while thinking: "WHEN is he going to get in the damn mobile armor?" ...until he *finally* did.

Why does he knock-out the alien that he needs and leave him for the mercenaries to find?
Why does he behave as if he's conflicted about saving the prawn that's his ONLY HOPE?

The alien wasn't going to fix him there, but go back to his home planet. He panicked. He wasn't a brave man.

Wikus was just a minor bureaucrat who only got to his position because of his marriage to the boss's daughter. He's not suppose[d] to be heroic, brave, or particularly smart.

Now compare that to the idiots in Prometheus who are suppose[d] to be scientists on a trillion dollar mission. You'd think they'd be competent, screened, and psychologically tested, so only the best would be going. Yet they are dumber and more illogical than Wikus.

They are dumb and illogical, but NOT nearly as dumb and illogical as Wikus!

Your "explanation" for the knock-out simply doesn't work. Wikus and the viewer are reminded over-and-over-and-over that Christopher Johnson (the prawn scientist) is his only hope of ever being human again. Christpher tells Wikus that it will take longer than expected, but they will both leave together on the mothership, fix him, and return to Earth in a few years. Wikus reacts by TRYING TO DESTROY ANY POSSIBILITY THAT HE WILL EVER BE HUMAN AGAIN. He knocks Christopher unconscious and leaves him for the MNU mercenaries. He disappears into the craft hidden in the ground with NO IDEA HOW TO PILOT IT. What did he plan to do when he got to the mothership? Why was he still trying to get to the mothership? Even if he could pilot the mothership, where would he go in it? How did he plan to fix himself? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

I could go on-and-on-and-on.

So could I. District 9 was fucking stupid and over-rated movie done on a ridiculously large budget [(considering the end product) with the WETA effects studio at full disposal]. District 9 seems like it was written by a 12 year old with ADD. If it didn't have the cheap and forced analogy to apartheid, District 9 would have been panned by the critics as an incompetent incomplete mess.

Fixed.

...and I'll throw-in the previous discussion about the black stuff just to get it all in one place:

The black stuff is fuel to get the craft back to the mothership. CJ and his son scavenge every precious drop for years and years until the last drop is "just enough" for them to go. Wikus gets sprayed with it (looks like they lost a LOT of droplets!) and the "fuel" somehow transforms him into an alien. No explanation. Just fucking stupid.

Even though that last drop was absolutely necessary, and even though the canister sprayed all over Wikus, they were still able to fly the craft back to the mothership.

 

[ImpulsE69]

...Like star-wars, the original star-trek, back-to-the-future, and short circuit...

Animation is not a narrative genera. From grave of the fire flies to aqua-teen-hunger-force animation has spanned the gamut of narrative genera; further many narrative genera are mixed in stories.


You are you aware that your personal tastes and preferences aren't what define genera, right; nor do mine.


Dictionary: Science Fiction: fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component

Wall-e was about a future star-cruse technology and trash-cleaning technology that form the essential orienting component of society.

My conclusion is that you are not stupid, but that you were ignorant (no shame in that, as Penn Adair said "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.")

You do realize you're the one coming off as the troll right?