Richland & Kabini rumours

[krumme]

I still dont quite understand - or accept - why AMD can be number 2 in x86 and number 2 in GPU,- the only player that have good technology in both areas, and still not make a profit. And dont do it for so many years. So many excellent people, excellent technology in relevant business. We know the reasons, but its still kind of weird.

So from an economic perspective its just plain bad. But compared to the AMD of the 80 and 90ties its just another world. They were copying Intel, now its both ways. AMD have had en enormous positive impact on the innovation and development of the industry, and benefit for the consumers. Everyone who had to pay for their own pc in the 80ties knows from hard earned experience what difference a strom AMD have meant.

 

[AnandThenMan]

AMD is on a downward trend. Meaning you need more luck than patience to make money.

AMD is one of the most predictable stocks I've ever seen, the only luck involved is not having them go out of business. Which won't happen, if it came to the point where they were no longer solvent, they would be bought out, which would likely be a major windfall for shareholders.

I still dont quite understand - or accept - why AMD can be number 2 in x86 and number 2 in GPU,- the only player that have good technology in both areas, and still not make a profit. And dont do it for so many years. So many excellent people, excellent technology in relevant business. We know the reasons, but its still kind of weird.

It's not really that weird, AMD has rarely if ever been able to move the volumes needed to realize a healthy ROI, they are always behind the curve. No profits, starved for R&D dollars, illegally squeezed out of OEM contracts. It's the perfect storm. Intel flat out stated they HAVE to keep AMD from reaching a critical mass where there would be no going back. Intel succeeded wonderfully.

So from an economic perspective its just plain bad. But compared to the AMD of the 80 and 90ties its just another world. They were copying Intel, now its both ways. AMD have had en enormous positive impact on the innovation and development of the industry, and benefit for the consumers. Everyone who had to pay for their own pc in the 80ties knows from hard earned experience what difference a strom AMD have meant.

AMD is critically important to this industry. Without them, Nvidia and Intel will have a gun to our collective skulls. But for whatever reason, the prevailing attitude I see here is outright hate for AMD, and I really don't understand why. Given the resources they have available, they have done a remarkable job at staying in the game. But instead of people admiring this, they are instead extremely critical, the vitriol spewed by some to me is highly irrational. AMD is an honest American company, why the extreme hate? 😕 And that is the correct word for it, many here come across as outright hating AMD and everything they do.

But of course the first response is, well AMD is horribly managed, they suck, their products suck, Intel rulez etc. etc. Well AMD is not so horribly managed, they just have no margin for error.

 

[piesquared]

AMD is one of the most predictable stocks I've ever seen, the only luck involved is not having them go out of business. Which won't happen, if it came to the point where they were no longer solvent, they would be bought out, which would likely be a major windfall for shareholders.

It's not really that weird, AMD has rarely if ever been able to move the volumes needed to realize a healthy ROI, they are always behind the curve. No profits, starved for R&D dollars, illegally squeezed out of OEM contracts. It's the perfect storm. Intel flat out stated they HAVE to keep AMD from reaching a critical mass where there would be no going back. Intel succeeded wonderfully.

AMD is critically important to this industry. Without them, Nvidia and Intel will have a gun to our collective skulls. But for whatever reason, the prevailing attitude I see here is outright hate for AMD, and I really don't understand why. Given the resources they have available, they have done a remarkable job at staying in the game. But instead of people admiring this, they are instead extremely critical, the vitriol spewed by some to me is highly irrational. AMD is an honest American company, why the extreme hate? 😕 And that is the correct word for it, many here come across as outright hating AMD and everything they do.

But of course the first response is, well AMD is horribly managed, they suck, their products suck, Intel rulez etc. etc. Well AMD is not so horribly managed, they just have no margin for error.

I think that part is easily explained. Many are cheering on the failure of AMD for profit.

 

[Homeles]

Without them, Nvidia and Intel will have a gun to our collective skulls.

Intel has had a gun to our skulls since 2006... and it's not not even as bad as you're making it out to be.

And yes, they aren't well managed. Or at the very least, they weren't during Ruiz's regime, and given product development cycles, we're only just now getting out of that hole.

 

[frozentundra123456]

You'll be happy with an iPad. Smooth and haven't had any problems(can't say that for android).

Yea, my sister in law has an iPad, and I must say it looks really nice. I havent tried it to see how it really works though. Right now I have a new desktop and use the Acer with all it problems for web browsing. I will wait till the market sorts out and maybe buy a windows tablet or some sort of convertible laptop at some point. I would not rule out iPad though, but cant spend any more money on electronics right now.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I think that part is easily explained. Many are cheering on the failure of AMD for profit.

I see a lot more irrational hate for intel on these forums than for AMD.

Edit: I am also continually amazed at how some people emotionally invest themselves in a black and white viewpoint that Intel is some evil giant and AMD is some poor persecuted good guy. They are both companies, and dont really care at all for the consumer except as a way to sell their product and make money. Unfortunately for AMD, they just arent very good at it.

 

[Haserath]

I see a lot more irrational hate for intel on these forums than for AMD.

Edit: I am also continually amazed at how some people emotionally invest themselves in a black and white viewpoint that Intel is some evil giant and AMD is some poor persecuted good guy. They are both companies, and dont really care at all for the consumer except as a way to sell their product and make money. Unfortunately for AMD, they just arent very good at it.

I used to be on their side. For whatever reason, I wanted AMD to do well; perhaps because they were doing so poorly. It's irrational.

AMD isn't a bad company. They just aren't anywhere near the level of their competitors.

People hate Intel because they're killing AMD.

 

[Homeles]

People hate Intel because AMD is killing AMD.

 

[Phynaz]

People hate Intel because AMD is killing AMD.

Lol, truth.

 

[piesquared]

I see a lot more irrational hate for intel on these forums than for AMD.

Edit: I am also continually amazed at how some people emotionally invest themselves in a black and white viewpoint that Intel is some evil giant and AMD is some poor persecuted good guy. They are both companies, and dont really care at all for the consumer except as a way to sell their product and make money. Unfortunately for AMD, they just arent very good at it.

I don't see anything irrational about it. History shows how intel has actively pursued illegal and anticompetitive practices to attempt killing competition. Trying to lump the two corporate cultures under the same banner is bizarre. I don't think you'll find that very many people believe that. As for irrational, here's just one simple example: dragging John Freuhe's name through the mud for about 1 year, in 2 different forums; here and VC&G. I'm still amazed that the mods here at Anandtech allowed that kind of personal attack to go unabated. As far as AMD not being very good at selling their products, I guess you might be able to find a way to convince uninformed people that it's true. However most informed people know that intel's monopoly accounts for 99% of intel's position in the industry today.

Remember intel threating motherboard makers to package AMD motherboards in white boxes with no advertising?
Remember intel bribing Dell?
Remember intel colluding with MS to lower the bar to the lowest level for Vista Starter?
How about intel's upcoming platforms that limit PCIe to PCIe 2 x4 to starve GPU manufacturers?
Such a worthy company to support.
My God the list goes on and on and on. How ignorant to you think people are? lol

 

[Homeles]

Intel's pushing the envelope of technological progress faster than AMD.

People get way too hung up over a lawsuit that had next to zero effect on their daily lives.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't see anything irrational about it. History shows how intel has actively pursued illegal and anticompetitive practices to attempt killing competition. Trying to lump the two corporate cultures under the same banner is bizarre. I don't think you'll find that very many people believe that. As for irrational, here's just one simple example: dragging John Freuhe's name through the mud for about 1 year, in 2 different forums; here and VC&G. I'm still amazed that the mods here at Anandtech allowed that kind of personal attack to go unabated. As far as AMD not being very good at selling their products, I guess you might be able to find a way to convince uninformed people that it's true. However most informed people know that intel's monopoly accounts for 99% of intel's position in the industry today.

Remember intel threating motherboard makers to package AMD motherboards in white boxes with no advertising?
Remember intel bribing Dell?
Remember intel colluding with MS to lower the bar to the lowest level for Vista Starter?
How about intel's upcoming platforms that limit PCIe to PCIe 2 x4 to starve GPU manufacturers?
Such a worthy company to support.
My God the list goes on and on and on. How ignorant to you think people are? lol

You are not refuting my point, you are actually providing a case in point!

 

[piesquared]

You are not refuting my point, you are actually providing a case in point!

I'm glad you agree with my point then.

 

[Idontcare]

I'm still amazed that the mods here at Anandtech allowed that kind of personal attack to go unabated.

When John was an active member here your statement is simply not true. Countless members were sanctioned for their unnecessary personal attacks of John.

To say differently means you are either ignorant of the reality of what was going on at the time or it is just another sleazy attempt by you to impugn the integrity of the moderators of this forum. Given that you have documented history of doing the latter, I am going to be surprised if you claim your err is because of the former

Since John left the forums, as he indicated by virtue of pm'ing me and saying "I'm leaving the forums, delete my account if you wish", that prevents the moderators from penalizing active members for insulting John all they like after the fact. No different than the libelous tripe you come here and spread about Anand Lal Shimpi (who by virtue of not being an active member is himself not covered by the forum guidelines and is fair game to be insulted if members want to).

All that you should be amazed by is the fact that despite your general nasty character and trolling behavior the mods haven't decided to permaban you yet. I chalk this up to the fact that you are so absurdly ridiculous in the vast majority of your posts that the mods have simply concluded you are harmless and your own worst enemy. Why stop the entertainment when you so willingly provide it for free?

 

[Homeles]

I'm glad you agree with my point then.

It's extremely obvious that he didn't agree with it. You have failed to comprehend what he wrote — try again.

 

[krumme]

In regards to Temash. What does gaming mean in the future, for the tablet market?

For a good laugh about gaming on Intel Atom go here:
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/18/gaming-on-intels-atom-z2670/

"Additionally, the game, while still unplayable and suffering from heavy input lag, was smooth enough for me to plant the bomb and win a round."

"There’s been a lot of talk going around lately about new graphics card testing methodologies. Scott Wasson over at The TechReport, has been pretty open about how his team is working to create new metrics that avoid the pitfalls of the traditional frame per second metric. As a show of support for these new ideas we’ve decide to include a chart showing the total number of frames that took over 50 milliseconds to render during our 60 second benchmarking runs."

One of Ryans funny moments 🙂

 

[sontin]

Clover Trails gpu performance is under Tegra 3. So nobody wants to play "x86" games with it.

That's the reason why all the talk about legacy support is nonsense.

 

[krumme]

That's the reason why all the talk about legacy support is nonsense.

I dont understand it. Care to explain more?

 

[podspi]

Clover Trails gpu performance is under Tegra 3. So nobody wants to play "x86" games with it.

That's the reason why all the talk about legacy support is nonsense.

In terms of gaming, at the moment yes. But there are lots of x86 applications that run acceptably on Clover Trail.

(Unless I misinterpreted your post).

And it would be nice to be able to set up a keyboard and mouse and play some games sometimes, but entirely unnecessary 🙂

 

[krumme]

What does the surveys say the tablets is used for?

 

[NostaSeronx]

What does the surveys say the tablets is used for?

Gaming.

 

[frozentundra123456]

In terms of gaming, at the moment yes. But there are lots of x86 applications that run acceptably on Clover Trail.

(Unless I misinterpreted your post).

And it would be nice to be able to set up a keyboard and mouse and play some games sometimes, but entirely unnecessary 🙂

Personally I am not really concerned about "gaming" on tablets. That is what my desktop is for. I would like to be able to use "real" MS Office, and be able to move files around like in windows. And to browse the internet without waiting incessantly for pages to load.

 

[NTMBK]

Clover Trails gpu performance is under Tegra 3. So nobody wants to play "x86" games with it.

That's the reason why all the talk about legacy support is nonsense.

Good job that AMD are bringing out tablet SoCs with actually decent graphics performance!

 

[NostaSeronx]

Good job that AMD are bringing out low power SoCs with actually decent graphics performance!

Correction.

SoCs aren't made to fill up on one roll. AMD has design wins with Temash and Kabini in:
Phones
Tablets
Netbooks
Notebooks
Ultra-thins
Atoms(Mini-desktops/usually ITX)
All-in-ones
Desktops

It's a low power SoC not a tablet SoC.

 

[NTMBK]

Correction.

SoCs aren't made to fill up on one roll. AMD has design wins with Temash and Kabini in:
Phones
Tablets
Netbooks
Notebooks
Ultra-thins
Atoms(Mini-desktops/usually ITX)
All-in-ones
Desktops

It's a low power SoC not a tablet SoC.

I believe and agree with all that, apart from one thing- phones. That's just not happening with Temash.