[reuters 5-18-14] Intel CEO promises Broadwell on shelves for holidays 2014

[jaydee]

This is going to make Q3 extremely rough on Intel and on a lot of their OEMs.

Back to school sales will be tough (slow) to build momentum in the channel and in retail with everyone (supply chain wise, not end-user) knowing the next-gen mobile stuff for laptops and tablets (who buys a desktop for back to school these days?) is coming right around the corner in Q4.

I bet a lot more people are going to be willing to "limp through" first semester with whatever device they already plan to use to "limp through summer" just so they can get a much improved BW-based product at xmas and go back to school for spring semester with that instead of a haswell-refresh device.

Except for Apple, it seems rather few laptops are available within the two months or so of an Intel mobile CPU launch. Even if they do "launch" in November, very few non-Macbooks will be available by Christmas if history is any indication.

 

[jdubs03]

But, with the macbook air refresh, that may disrupt the status quo in release schedules, so there may be more windows 8.1.2 devices than normal at that time.

 

[Sweepr]

A bit off topic but I'm really impressed with what Microsoft did with the Surface Pro 3.
A 9.1mm 800g Core i7 machine 10% faster than the Surface Pro 2, 20% more battery life than any previous Surface (including Tegra-based Surface). Looks like a custom CPU part from Intel (''partnered super close with Intel''), I wonder if thats a Haswell-Y variant? Can't wait to see what Broadwell-Y and Cherry Trail-T bring to the table later this year.

 

[blackened23]

I used a Surface Pro and was super impressed. It is a great product, and it takes a LOT for me to say that because I've found many windows based ultrabooks and portables to be lacking in some areas. My biggest qualm with Windows 8.1 on mobile devices that are tablet form factor is that DPI scaling in Windows 8.1 is just a mess. I wish it were as good as it is on the retina macbooks. Also, Windows 8.1 isnt' a great touch based OS compared to android or iOS. But this is a non issue on an ultrabook or Surface, since you can get a full sized keyboard/mouse/trackpad/whatever. Anyway.......aside from that - The Surface Pro 1/2 aren't perfect, but are very good devices. Again, I was impressed. The pro 3 also looks fantastic.

However, I have mixed feelings on the Windows RT based sibling.

Honestly, Windows RT is just a dead end. I think MS should just swallow their pride there and switch their cheaper Surface devices to Cherry Trail whenever those are released - that would give them full Windows 8.1 compatibility with good performance for the target demographic. That being sub 300$ devices.

Yet I don't think MS will do this. Pride is a hard thing to swallow, and they probably won't budge since they feel obligated to continue serving those customers who already got stuck in the Windows RT rut. Personally I think they should just cut the cord now to Windows RT while it's still early. I don't think it has a long term future.

When push comes to shove, Windows RT is not desirable compared to Android or iOS. It's just that simple. But they CAN make a cheap Win 8.1 device with Cherry Trail, while using core products for their Surface Pro line.

 

[witeken]

@Sweepr: Haswell-Y 10% faster than Haswell-U? Seems unlikely to me. It still has a fan, so there's no need for Y.

 

[Sweepr]

@Sweepr: Haswell-Y 10% faster than Haswell-U? Seems unlikely to me. It still has a fan, so there's no need for Y.

If it's Haswell-U then they managed to fit 15W chips + 2160x1440 and probably bigger battery into a device with similar size/weight to Haswell-Y Vaio Tap 11. Neat technical accomplishment. Not sure what ''custom parts and close partnership with Intel'' means though. Perhaps these are in fact custom chips, like the ones Apple used in the first Macbook Air.

Edit: Anand's review unit is based on a Core i5-4300U, so that confirms Haswell-U.

 

[ninaholic37]

A bit off topic but I'm really impressed with what Microsoft did with the Surface Pro 3.

I think a 12" tablet is ridiculous. Even my 12.1" laptop feels too large.

 

[blackened23]

Stop thinking in terms of "tablet" and "ultrabook". Look at the capabilities of the machine. The SP3 is going to be pretty great IMHO, and the size is just in line with the macbook pros and larger airs. To me that's great. That's the perfect size for a device with a keyboard/trackpad, which is HOW I would use the SP3.

 

[OCGuy]

And Intel just keeps on chugging...

 

[IntelUser2000]

Thanks. Had he even just copied his "leak" he wouldnt be so far of as he is.

mikk/shintai:

Yea, you guys keep believing that. The schedules listed there are not relevant for "consumers", only for "customers" of Intel which are manufacturers.

If Broadwell's release was exactly like the leak, why would Brian say "by Holiday" season, and saying back to school is "tough"? Back to school is September, same as the leak. The 1-2 month delay is why BK says Back to school season requires being on shelf by July/August.

Except for Apple, it seems rather few laptops are available within the two months or so of an Intel mobile CPU launch. Even if they do "launch" in November,

jaydee gets it, why don't you guys(mikk/shintai)? Two months means September on the VR-Zone schedule becomes November.

Laptops(U 2:2) are listed as November, so that becomes December/January. Actually, that's for thin & light. Regular ones are mid-next year.

 

[witeken]

I don't really understand you logic.

Where do you get this 1-2 month delay from? And the consumers vs costumers thing, when he's quite clearly talking about consumers. Also, Wikipedia says that back to school is August, same as what BK says. July and August are though, he says. And combined with his comment about the holiday season, this gives us a possible release range of September-November. My guess is September.

 

[blackened23]

The impression I got from his interview is that they almost made back to school but not quite. Therefore I personally think it would be the earlier part prior to the holiday season - september or october.

That's just my guess, though, based on his wording. What I don't think based on his wording is that it will be last minute. Which dec-jan obviously would be. He seems confident that they will hit the early part of it, well before the "last minute".

None of us are obviously sure, but that's how I see things based on his interview. We'll see I guess.

 

[witeken]

Maybe if someone could get some numbers on the delta between volume production and products on the market for Intel, we could use those numbers to guide our guesses.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Don't get your hopes up. He's just admitting the second delay. The first one was Broadwell being pushed to 2014H2. Now he's pushing it further to 2014Q4 and saying it will at least be here in time for the holidays (November/December).

There's been leaks about this already several months ago, but now he's just admitting it in public. I guess he has no choice, because otherwise he'd be lying to his shareholders. So he does it in the least humiliating way he could put into words, and disguises is with vague talk about Back-to-school season, while only promising the holiday season.

 

[mikk]

mikk/shintai:

Yea, you guys keep believing that. The schedules listed there are not relevant for "consumers", only for "customers" of Intel which are manufacturers.

RTS means official launch for the public with first reviews, it is relevant.

If Broadwell's release was exactly like the leak, why would Brian say "by Holiday" season, and saying back to school is "tough"?

Because for mobile you have to add a couple of weeks from the launch in order to see first devices in stores. You are confusing launch with availability it seems. The launch is planned for September-October so I would expect first devices available in November at least.

 

[jdubs03]

I think a 12" tablet is ridiculous. Even my 12.1" laptop feels too large.

Microsoft stepped their game up. To fit a haswell i5/i7-u in a 9.1mm case, without heat issues is impressive. Broadwell will follow through even better.)

to go from 10.6in at 2.0 lbs device to a 12in/1.76 lb device is pretty great, its weight to area ratio is superb, a great improvement, and maybe even challenge the iPad air (edit the ratio still is in the airs favor but not by a crazy amount.)

 

[AtenRa]

1: Broadwell production started late Q1 2014, most probable March
2: It takes 3-3+ months to have wafers baked and products ready to ship to OEMs. That means first Broadwell shipments could start at the end of Q2(June) early Q3(July).
3: It takes 3 to 6 months for OEMs to launch new products(Laptops) in to retail. So the earlier a new Apple Broadwell could reach the retail is late Q3(September) early Q4(October)

In comparison,
Haswell production started in Q4 2012,
Haswell released in late Q2 2013(June)
First Apple Haswell released in October 2013, i also believe it was the first Haswell Laptop in retail as well.

 

[Sweepr]

First Haswell-based Apple product was the 2013 Macbook Air, launched in June 2013.

 

[AtenRa]

Yes correct, the Air was released in June. It was the Pro that was released in October.

So, the new Macbook Air with Broadwell could be released in September/October time frame.

 

[Sweepr]

My guess is will launch a 12'' Macbook Air with Retina Display first, this one could come with Broadwell-Y in a fanless design around September/October. Then 1-2 months later the whole Macbook Air line gets a Broadwell-U update.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Fanless Broadwell-Y notebooks sounds nice. Dropping the fan should also help reduce weight and dimensions further. I wonder what performance levels they are targeting with Broadwell-Y though... :hmm: Could it be something like ~50% or 70% of the mid range U models (i.e. 50-70% of something that corresponds Haswell 4200U)?

 

[386user]

i thought the y series always released last...so if MBA is first to come, it will just be the Ult variant/?

who knows...

 

[tential]

I think a 12" tablet is ridiculous. Even my 12.1" laptop feels too large.

I don't really view it as a 12" tablet.

Yes, I can use it as a "tablet", but I can also use it with a wireless keyboard at a desk. I can use the type cover when on the go. At this point, devices are really jumping from the "this is what I am" to doing multiple things. So I view it as "Does this thing fit my needs?" It's 1.76 lbs(around this someone can correct me) so it's probably lighter than your current laptop and easily more portable as well.

When I think about whether I would buy this new Surface I think
"What are the other 12 inch laptop offerings and their price?"
"Do I need an attached keyboard?"
"Can I use a keyboard cover?"
etc.

The funny thing is though, this is a great tablet at a very good price. They could easily release a laptop version that would be a top in class competitor with very little additional cost/changes.

As I keep saying though, the mobile sector of computing (laptops/tablets/cellphones) is an exciting place. Haswell, Broadwell and Skylake will all bring better and better devices. Desktop scene may be boring, but mobile is extremely exciting/fascinating. I can't wait to see how the mobile scene evolves as we get more powerful chips at lower power consumption.

 

[mikk]

Another leak suggests the following launch schedules:

Broadwell Y 2:2 - November/December 2014

RTS means official launch for the public with first reviews, it is relevant.

Because for mobile you have to add a couple of weeks from the launch in order to see first devices in stores. You are confusing launch with availability it seems. The launch is planned for September-October so I would expect first devices available in November at least.

I was right, here a confirmation: http://chinese.vr-zone.com/114968/i...y-three-broadwell-y-series-cpu-name-05302014/

Launch is expected for September or October.

 

[witeken]

Don't give yourself too much credit. There were only 4 possible months, with BK's comment reducing it to 3, and you picked 2 of those months with another 2 for launch. You don't know if launch will be November, December or October. I'd bet around the end of September for availability.