Returning laptop cuz of Windows 8

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by moonbogg, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    6,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never used Windows 8 and I have a problem with it. The problem is philosophical -- a LARGE number of people have said they don't like this new "giant tablet" interface, as the OP puts it. Microsoft knows this, but they decided to ignore all of the feedback.

    If this new UI was so great, people would choose it over the old one. But Microsoft isn't willing to allow the idea to sink or swim in the free market of ideas. Instead, they are saying "we know better than you do" and are forcing it on everyone.

    It's paternalistic and insulting to be treated this way by a company. MS deserves every bit of flack they are catching -- it's New Coke all over again. And I say this as someone who generally likes and uses Microsoft products.
     
  2. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's the problem though. Why do you - out of principle - not even try windows 8? Why do so many others vent their frustration before they have even installed it?

    One of the major factor is because: The media has said it's crap - No, they havn't actaully, they have said that Metro is crap, then they hide all the positives near the back of the article and title it "Metro - Train wreck, Windows 8 in a nutshell".

    Everyone rages about Metro and as a WIndows 8 user i don't use it often, but it's nice to have. I hit the Windows button and get a quick list over my own personalised start screen where i can just hit the massive icon and open my application. The only few valid arguments against Windows 8 are truely compatibility issues which i can 100% understand (But that's the way it is with a new OS). The hate against Metro is not completely unfounded, but most of it is just hyperbole without constructive meaning.

    One of the reasons i havn't installed Windows 8 on my laptop is due to both program compatibility for work and hardware compatibility (Driver support) - The big one, i think my 14" laptop screen is too small for windows 8. I'm 100% happy with it on my desktop with a 27" screen and i'm not a fan on my laptop. So although i feel the OS is perfectly fine, i'm not just blindly installing it on all my machines.
     
    #27 smakme7757, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  3. ControlD

    ControlD Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,438
    Likes Received:
    41
    Exactly how is this different than any other commercial desktop interface? Does Apple give you choice to have a completely different desktop environment than whatever the OS X interface is? Did MS let you decide what your DE would be on Windows XP or Windows 7? Not really. There is no forcing anything, you still have the ultimate choice buy either buying it or not. They also still provide the classic desktop which honestly is where you, as a non-tablet user, will be spending 90% of your time anyhow. I was prepared to hate Win8 as well and now it pretty much just feels like Windows always did, just with the added Metro twist. In all honesty that twist makes very little difference in how I use my PC.
     
  4. pmv

    pmv Golden Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    13

    Speaking for myself, I haven't noticed 'the media' saying any such thing. I've read many, many reviews of it, almost all of which were overwhelmingly positive, but decided from the factual content of said reviews that it didn't appeal to me, regardless of the generally positive value judgments made by the reviewers.

    Perhaps there's since been some media backlash I haven't noticed, but all the comment I read on it when looking into it was posiitive, but I just didn't like the sound of it.

    The reality appears to be that those who don't;like it don't like it because its not right for them. its a trifle patronising to assume its because everyone is brainwashed by the media.

    Besides, I think it will probably do OK(ish). MS generally has the power to push stuff on the market regardless, and it still has _most_ of the functionality of 7, plus presumably is actually better for touch enabled devices.
     
  5. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    It really depends on the media you read. If you're mostly into the technical sites like Anandtech and other decent IT websites then you're going to get a nice even spread of what's hot and what's not with what ever you are reading about. In addition to a nice objective review.

    It's the consumer tech sites that are trying to get as many hits as possible and "Windows 8 is not so good" is currently selling pretty well, at least here in Norway. So from my point of view it seems a lot of people who havn't actually tried Window 8 are making their opinion based of other people experiences. That's how an opinion is made. You either use it and come to your own conclusion or you say what you have heard.

    My point is that the media has a big sway on the way people perceive a product before they have tried it. With the amount of "I haven't tried Windows 8, but" posts people are coming to their own conclusions as to why they dislike the product before they have even had the time to try it.

    So coupling that up with what I've read on some big consumer orientated media websites i felt that this might be a reason for all the "hate" if you can call it that?

    Also i'd say your right, Windows Vista didn't have the easiest time and it sold quite well, so i'm sure MS will push though Windows 8 to make a few $$$ out of it.
     
    #30 smakme7757, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  6. jimhsu

    jimhsu Senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interface wise, go get Pokki (https://www.pokki.com/) and use it like windows 7. Though I'm using the Start screen as well - just want to have it to boot to Desktop on start.

    I don't use metro apps. Most of that junk is somewhere off to the far right of the screen (and also go get Pin To 8 to put things like Control Panel on).

    Win+D, Win+I, Win+X. Win & type stuff. Learn those. When in doubt, Windows key+something.

    System wise, I generally like the changes (yay non-ancient Task Manager), though I have some concerns, namely problems with DPC latency (and associated things like stuttering, etc). Fortunately disabling dynamic ticks, disabling the other power saving options, and new drivers have solved the problem some, but not completely. There are some random programs that need new compatibility settings from windows 7. Also, I don't like how programs are divided from settings on the search panel.

    That's basically it, though. Manufacturers seriously need to get it together and have real driver support (I'm looking at you, Lenovo, ASUS, etc.)
     
    #31 jimhsu, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  7. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Lifer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    36,405
    Likes Received:
    900
    The "Metro" UI is a major step BACKWARDS in terms of usability for the Windows interface. What do you mean, I cannot have two windows open, on a 1366x768 laptop screen? (The default screen res on most laptops and netbooks.)

    Why would I, as an end-user, want an inherently-limited user interface, as seen on a cell phone, on a powerful desktop or laptop computer? It's idiotic.

    It should be noted that the person responsible for Windows 8 was let go at Microsoft, after seeing initial sales numbers. That alone should tell you it's not great.
     
  8. Kristijonas

    Kristijonas Senior member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    4
    VirtualLarry,
    Firstly, you can have two windows open, at least in desktop mode of Windows 8. Don't use Metro UI if your laptop doesn't support touchscreen and you have a keyboard/mouse. Also I think you can have two windows open even in metro UI?

    Secondly, it is not known why the Windows 8 responsible person left Microsoft. But it was a mutual decision. For all we know it could be that he wanted to leave the project when it was finished, himself.
     
  9. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    6,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lack of choice is one of the reasons I don't use Apple products.

    No, but the changes made were evolutionary from the standard interface that has been in place for years, so there was no need for it.

    There is here, but MS thinks it knows better than I do when I am ready for a significant change in how I do work on my computer.

    What reason do I have to? Is there anything that would justify wasting money and time on an OS upgrade when I basically have no issues with Windows 7?

    Tons of people are saying it's a step backwards from W7. And there's no real gains to be made. So why would I bother?

    I may get a new laptop next year, and it will probably come with W8, and I'll likely use it and get used to it. But that's aside from the issue of forcing a new interface on people for NO REASON.

    That's how it works. It doesn't matter if most of something is fine, if something big sucks and the company refuses to fix it.

    It really boils down to this: Microsoft knows that a LOT of people hate Metro, they also know they could have EASILY made the new interface optional, and they chose to force it on everyone anyway. That is why they deserve 100% of the criticism they are now getting.
     
  10. Mem

    Mem Lifer

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2000
    Messages:
    21,367
    Likes Received:
    7
    I disagree with a lot of this statement,end of the day you don't have to buy Win8 or any Microsoft product so nobody is forcing you,there are happy Metro users out there as well,works both ways,personally I went into Win8 open minded as I keep saying(I'm a die hard DOS 6.22 fan btw) and it did not take me long to adjust as a desktop user,I already stated I use Win8 as a desktop user/gamer and still spend 98 to 99% of my time in desktop,Metro is not bad IMHO yes it could be improved(I expect improvements in Win9 which I also look forward to using),I've no issues using Metro when I need to,I rearranged Metro tiles to my liking and removed ones I did not need,went into Metro head on and customized it you could say.

    There are enough new features in Win8 for me,that alone was enough for me to buy it,I also like the new improved Chkdsk(a lot of people don't know about that in Win8 , http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/09/redesigning-chkdsk-and-the-new-ntfs-health-model.aspx ) it has a lot of improvements like this etc some you know like Task Manager.

    Basically Win7 was using the old UI from Win95 days,ie in 95,98,XP Vista etc..you can see a lot has not changed ,Microsoft basically wanted to make a modern OS,you could call it a hybrid OS like I do that covers everything from desktop,tablet,notebook,phone etc...Win8 is very stable,fast and basically easy to use so I don't see why some people hate it,its just a very modern OS that has been designed for all types of hardware,I don't see what's hard when it only takes me one or two clicks for any of my programs etc...even if you hate Metro you can avoid that for the most part so again don't see the issue when Win8 is a very stable and fast and you don't need a tablet or touchscreen to you use it well,I'm proof of that.




    I have it heard all from being" too complicated to use" and "too simple,childish",I understand everybody is entitled to their opinion but I'll say regardless of if you like Metro or not ,Win8 is easy to use IMHO ,enough for me to upgrade three Win7 PCs to 8.


    I don't think Microsoft will go back to a pure desktop OS ever again,I expect Win9,10 etc... to be a hybrid OS that caters for all hardware but with improvements in Metro etc...I could be wrong but only time will tell.
     
    #35 Mem, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  11. Nothinman

    Nothinman Elite Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    30,672
    Likes Received:
    0
    That was my point. And despite the complexity people still reel whenever told they need to put in time to learn how to use them, even when it's an integral part of their job.
     
  12. moonbogg

    moonbogg Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,068
    Likes Received:
    476
    Well I can see people are arguing over this whole windows 8 thing. I've heard things like, "Well my wife plugs her printer into the toaster and she can still use windows 8, derpUH". I say thats great. Clearly she has demonstrated the genius that has gone into the UI design of windows 8.
    I, for one, will not be using windows 8, but this isn't about me. Its about my wife, and she said she will try to get used to it. If she can't, i'll return the laptop and get a custom one from Dell to replace it with windows 7. See how simple that is? If only windows 8 were that simple.

    Also, if she wanted a tablet, i'd get her an ipad. It won't be a windows 8 device.
     
    #37 moonbogg, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  13. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well then get her an ipad?

    See, so simple.
     
  14. moonbogg

    moonbogg Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,068
    Likes Received:
    476
    Also, where in the hell are the Aero options? I thought I just couldn't find it or that the hardware didn't support it, but i'm hearing that its gone? Seriously? I have nothing more to say about windows 8 except that it feels like a cheap, half thought out experiment.
     
  15. zerogear

    zerogear Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2000
    Messages:
    5,590
    Likes Received:
    7
    Aero 3D is gone in Windows 8. Was there really a need for it? It's pretty much just eyecandy. And people were always paranoid about Windows 7 Aero taking more battery life.

    On a side note, I installed Windows 8 on my laptop, and on average, I'm getting about 45min to 1 hour more battery life than I had on Windows 7, and a lot faster. Not moving back to Windows 7 any time soon.
     
  16. Meractik

    Meractik Golden Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just bought a notebook for a christmas present it has windows 8 on it and the person I am giving it to is familiar with windows xp/7 and I realize that win8 and 7 are very close once you unwrap the metro and get to the good stuff....

    that being said.... Is there a way to disable the metro interface on startup and just have it take you straight to the desktop? also maybe a way to get the start menu back? Anyone that could provide this info I would be very appreciative as I may not be able to downgrade this notebook to windows 7 due to some new fangled bios chip technology that doesn't let me..... the laptop is a lenovo G580 model 20157
     
  17. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can install Start8 by Stardock, that will get you back the old start menu and boot you right into the desktop. I had it installed for a few days then got rid of it. I never really used it much once i pinned all my most used programs to the taskbar or on the desktop.

    With that being said i do use Metro every now and again, it's slowly but surely getting more use.
     
  18. Mem

    Mem Lifer

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2000
    Messages:
    21,367
    Likes Received:
    7
    Aero was removed due to being a battery hog which is quite important for laptop/tablet users on the move etc..,however they could of put an option in for desktop users,however having said that its only eye candy and serves no other purpose.
     
  19. Meractik

    Meractik Golden Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ive used the stardock products before.... they seemed very resource intensive at the time.... do they still operate that way? I'd hate to get the functionality back only to lose 2-3 hours of battery life.
     
  20. hectorsm

    hectorsm Senior member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very true. However, Microsoft had the chance to make it more intuitive but they didn't. I think people are justified to be disappointed.
     
  21. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think people have a problem with people being disapointed it's just that they never actually say what they don't like.

    "Metro" isn't a reason, it's an application.

    All we ever seem to hear is that it's not user friendly (how?) and that the new start menu aka "Metro" isn't any good (why?).
     
  22. Mem

    Mem Lifer

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2000
    Messages:
    21,367
    Likes Received:
    7
    Microsoft are in no win situation,I have read some people saying "Win8 is too complicated",others saying "too simple/childish "etc....end of the day you can't please everyone,also if they do anything too radical be an uproar on that as well.
     
  23. GSquadron

    GSquadron Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
    The best thing you have done!
    I hate Windows 8 too
     
  24. hectorsm

    hectorsm Senior member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because even common function are very difficult to find.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cor-lvXsgx0

    Except for an add-on apps like Start8 and command line stuff (which most common users don't know about) users must deal with "metro" to get apps and configure the system. From their point of view is not a choice and more like a hindrance.
     
  25. smakme7757

    smakme7757 Golden Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a fair point.

    In the video everyone was mentioning that they "had" or where "used too" which is just pointing out that Microsoft has changed the Windows paradigm, so things will be harder to find because it isn't the same operating system that people were/are using.

    Linux to Windows - Windows to Linux is a similar shift. Things are hard to find because it's not the same system you are used too. The big question is: If you know where to find what you need to find is Windows 8 still difficult to use?

    Because after a few days of finding those things you need to find you will know where they are.

    I myself find certain aspects of the UI unintuative, but as i learn it it becomes second nature, just like with Windows 7.