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Question Rethinking AMD consumer CPU lineup in the situation of chiplet scarcity

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Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
252
146
76
If the cheaper and the more expensive didn't fulfill your needs how something between would?
I am not discussing my needs here. I only responded to what some other member of the forum wrote.

One could actually expect that some members would behave in more civilised manner. Some posts are quite surprising to read.

BTW is anybody finds this

"If they released 3940X slightly slower than 3950X for e.g. 650 USD, everybody would be happy, not only customers because they could get what they want."

as a "sickening nonsense", it is quite peculiar, because the idea of making a different product with lesser specification which could be more easilly produced is quite wide spread.




 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,047
701
136
This is why places like Newegg and B&H Photo changed their return policies. Just because there are some people who abuse it so badly, honest regular people get stuck with crappy return policies because of the fraud and abuse by some. And yes I bolded it for that to stand out because that's exactly what it is.
At least this time your bold key didn't keep getting stuck :) .

I am not discussing my needs here. I only responded to what some other member of the forum wrote.

One could actually expect that some members would behave in more civilised manner. Some posts are quite surprising to read.

BTW is anybody finds this

"If they released 3940X slightly slower than 3950X for e.g. 650 USD, everybody would be happy, not only customers because they could get what they want."

as a "sickening nonsense", it is quite peculiar, because the idea of making a different product with lesser specification which could be more easilly produced is quite wide spread.
Somehow I have a feeling you would still not be happy. You would go back to complaining about the lack of a "3600 x 2".
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
11,653
2,183
136
One could actually expect that some members would behave in more civilised manner. Some posts are quite surprising to read.
If anything, most have actually been very restrained on what they've said to you. Back during the glory years of this computer forum, you would have been ripped to shreds by the CPU and Overclocking members.

You came here, posted outlandish "AMD owes me this product" posts, proceeded to buy a 3900X and 3950X only to claim they were "disappointing", "defective", and a "lemon". On top of that, you then admit to abusing the return policies by saying you didn't have enough money to keep the 3950X, and you didn't do enough with your PC to justify keeping the 3900X.

Should we bake some freaking cookies in honor of you? :rolleyes:
At least this time your bold key didn't keep getting stuck :) .
:p
 
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Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,047
701
136
If anything, most have actually been very restrained on what they've said to you. Back during the glory years of this computer forum, you would have been ripped to shreds by the CPU and Overclocking members.
Rightfully so, IMHO. You are no better than those selfish assclowns that would buy a huge HDTV for the superbowl just to return it afterwards.

Instead of telling others that if they don't like what you have to say then leave, or to stop ganging up on you, or whatever, why don't you try defending your arguments/positions? I asked why it was OK for Intel to sell software upgrade keys to unlock features people already had in their CPU's. Now compare that with AMD charging a premium for premium products. I haven't heard your argument. Because there isn't one. (I can bold too!).

How about explaining why you bought something you couldn't afford just to return it, then something you couldn't make full use of so you returned that as well? Because there is no answer for that either.

So yea, as much as I (and I'm sure others) would love to tell you what we really thought, then we'd be the ones having to face consequences for our actions. Something you have not had to do yet yourself, for any of the crap that you've pulled.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,112
1,258
136
Rightfully so, IMHO. You are no better than those selfish assclowns that would buy a huge HDTV for the superbowl just to return it afterwards.

Instead of telling others that if they don't like what you have to say then leave, or to stop ganging up on you, or whatever, why don't you try defending your arguments/positions? I asked why it was OK for Intel to sell software upgrade keys to unlock features people already had in their CPU's. Now compare that with AMD charging a premium for premium products. I haven't heard your argument. Because there isn't one. (I can bold too!).

How about explaining why you bought something you couldn't afford just to return it, then something you couldn't make full use of so you returned that as well? Because there is no answer for that either.

So yea, as much as I (and I'm sure others) would love to tell you what we really thought, then we'd be the ones having to face consequences for our actions. Something you have not had to do yet yourself, for any of the crap that you've pulled.
Keep in mind he got the 3900x first and couldn't find a good use for it, returned it and then got the 3950x he couldn't afford. Before getting the 3800x (probably the worst value in the whole 3k lineup).
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
11,653
2,183
136
Before getting the 3800x (probably the worst value in the whole 3k lineup).
I'd imagine it will get returned as well. Heck, they've already returned two of them worth $1,250. Why shouldn't the business take another hit on a third return? We all know as long as it's someone else's money, everything is okilly dokilly. o_O

I haven't seen a post/thread that irritated me this much in quite awhile.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
19,901
411
126
Hahaha anyone remember Abit BH6 and dual Socket 370s? I know it is architecturally unreasonable, but it would be hilarious fun if someone had a dual Socket AM4 board, then this dude could run twin 3600s :) It would actually be pretty sweet if that was still a thing (outside of workstation+ realm)
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,047
701
136
I'd imagine it will get returned as well. Heck, they've already returned two of them worth $1,250. Why shouldn't the business take another hit on a third return? We all know as long as it's someone else's money, everything is okilly dokilly. o_O

I haven't seen a post/thread that irritated me this much in quite awhile.
I agree, and that's why I keep giving this guy a hard time. I remember a time when people would get warned if they admitted fraudulent returns.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,047
701
136
Keep in mind he got the 3900x first and couldn't find a good use for it, returned it and then got the 3950x he couldn't afford. Before getting the 3800x (probably the worst value in the whole 3k lineup).
That's even more buffoonery, if true. At this point I almost wonder if we're being played. I mean, what kind of logic is this, "I couldn't find a use for a 3900X so I'll order a 3950X that I couldn't afford"?
 

Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
252
146
76
... I keep giving this guy a hard time.
Apparently you enjoy it a lot. Although I do not believe that the purpose of this forum is "giving other people a hard time".

I believe some of you should step back and think about what you write a little bit more. Because some of you are giving away a lot about your personalities and possibly not a good things to learn about.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,047
701
136
Apparently you enjoy it a lot. Although I do not believe that the purpose of this forum is "giving other people a hard time".
No, but I can point out stupidity when I see it. I do enjoy it because I think that because of people like you, the rest of us have to put up with that quote, "This is why we can't have nice things".

I believe some of you should step back and think about what you write a little bit more. Because some of you are giving away a lot about your personalities and possibly not a good things to learn about.
We were (or at least I was) civil when you first started complaining. Then it became clear that there was no reasoning with you and that's why you are getting so much flak now.
 

Nereus77

Junior Member
Dec 30, 2016
18
23
51
Apparently you enjoy it a lot. Although I do not believe that the purpose of this forum is "giving other people a hard time".

I believe some of you should step back and think about what you write a little bit more. Because some of you are giving away a lot about your personalities and possibly not a good things to learn about.
I, for one, quite enjoy Thunder 57's personalities. All of them. He has nothing to worry about.

"Pick a CPU and stick with it" is the message that everyone here is trying to reiterate to you.
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
320
280
96
AMD curent lineup is: (LQ - low quality, HQ - high -, EHQ extra high - )

LQ 6C = Ryzen 3600
HQ 6C = Ryzen 3600X
LQ 8C = Ryzen 3700X
HQ 8C = Ryzen 3800X
EHQ 6C + HQ 6C = Ryzen 3900X - very limited supply
EHQ 8C + HQ 8C = Ryzen 3950X - extremelly limited supply
Didn't you post in the 3950X problem thread that you were angry that the 3950X had one good chiplet and one bad chiplet? And now you're saying the 3950X's bad chiplet is basically the same as the 3800X's chiplet (both labeled as HQ 8C).

And then you posted a thread saying you are so happy with your 3800X, even though the same quality of chiplet was the one you were complaining about in the 3950X?!

Why not to make cheaper and more reasonably specified CPUs which people could buy?
In case you haven't noticed, all this "LQ" silicon is being purchased at dizzying rates over the holiday season. They're selling 3600, 3600X, 3700X on top of the leaderboard at most retailers. Also, the 3900X is in stock and has been for a while in many retailers. The 3950X stock is depleted because of severe demand and possibly limited supply. Based on what has been heard from retailers it sounds like demand is the bigger issue. AMD is in this to make money, not to please fringe cases.

In any case, they have cheap options available for everyone. If you need 6 cores you get a $190 3600 or $200 3600X. If you need 8 cores you get a $300 3700X or a $330 3800X, if you need 12 cores you get a $500 3900X, if you need 16 cores you get a $750 3950X.

Unless it's you buying, in which case if you "need" 8 cores you buy a 3900X and a 3950X and complain about them.
 

Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
252
146
76
.... if you need 12 cores you get a $500 3900X, if you need 16 cores you get a $750 3950X.
No, this is not correct, you could not get 3900X for months without waiting weeks or months in the queue. Only now they started to appear more often in stock, at least in my country they are in stock mainly where they are overpriced.

You can NOT get 3950X anywhere now.

If AMD made 3940X from chiplets from 3700X and 3800X, they would be available, AMD would make more money on one 3940X than on both 3800X and 3700X, while serving just one customer instead of two. And customers would be happy because they could actually get what they want.

This would a win for everybody.
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
320
280
96
No, this is not correct, you could not get 3900X for months without waiting weeks or months in the queue. Only now they started to appear more often in stock, at least in my country they are in stock mainly where they are overpriced.

You can NOT get 3950X anywhere now.

If AMD made 3940X from chiplets from 3700X and 3800X, they would be available, AMD would make more money on one 3940X than on both 3800X and 3700X, while serving just one customer instead of two. And customers would be happy because they could actually get what they want.

This would a win for everybody.
Why do you consistently ignore the demands two chiplets place on I/O and IF and other factors? It's not like playing Legos, there are so many other considerations and so much more work you're not even thinking about.

I fail to see how the 3940X would be more profitable. You'd have to bin the I/O die to ensure it can handle two chiplets, and then steal chiplets from two of their highest-selling chips ($300 and $330) to make one that couldn't realistically sell for more than $650. Where's the impetus to do that? To make you happy?

Regardless, you're ignoring facts as well. You think the 3900X was supply constrained, but AMD sold as many 3900X as 3600 in July. I HIGHLY doubt anyone anticipated that a $500 chip would sell like a $200 one. It also speaks against your idea that the main issue is supply - it's not. The main issue is somewhat unexpected demand. As long as AMD have massive demand for their high-profit 3900X and 3950X chips they're going to avoid pilfering sales with lower-margin chips like a 3940X.

Your mythical 3940X would only appeal to those who need 16 cores, but don't need speed. A 16C/32T 2950X is $599. If that's what you really want. If you want a 16/32 Zen2 then why don't you go back to the store and get the one you returned?
 
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Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
252
146
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Information about binning IO dies in interesting, do you have any sources so that I can learn more? IO dies are made on an old matured process, I see no reason why many of them should be incapable of running two chiplets.

Lets say that the total cost of production of 3700X is X and of 3800X 1.05X. You get revenue of 630 when selling them and cost 2.05X. You get profit of 630-2.05X while serving two customers.

Cost of production of 3940X would be something like a 1.3-1.4X and revenue 650. You get higher profit by serving just one customer.

AMD could make something like 3x more profit on serving two customers, if they sold them each 3940X instead of 3700X or 3800X. Can you understand it now?
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,112
1,258
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Information about binning IO dies in interesting, do you have any sources so that I can learn more? IO dies are made on an old matured process, I see no reason why many of them should be incapable of running two chiplets.

Lets say that the total cost of production of 3700X is X and of 3800X 1.05X. You get revenue of 630 when selling them and cost 2.05X. You get profit of 630-2.05X while serving two customers.

Cost of production of 3940X would be something like a 1.3-1.4X and revenue 650. You get higher profit by serving just one customer.

AMD could make something like 3x more profit on serving two customers, if they sold them each 3940X instead of 3700X or 3800X. Can you understand it now?
We had this discussion earlier. I present to exhibit A.) 3900 Pro and B.) 3900. Both of them lower powered solutions with less demands on high clocking dies (I refuse to talk HQ vs LQ dies, realistically your HQ dies are really LQ dies). Guess where they are not sold? Give up? In retail. Demand is more sensitive and well more demanding selling to OEM's. Yet AMD is selling those to them. Why? Because selling them in retail cannibalizes retail sales of the 3900x. Same would apply to 3940x 3950 or whatever you want to call your crazy sku's. AMD seems to want limit SKU confusion (not have 50 different variations with 1-50 being great but each change over in between being rather small). But again no 3900 in retail means that AMD is confident that their supply issues with the 3900x was more of misunderstanding of demand and don't want to lower its current high demand with a competing cheaper product. Same applies to the 3950x, probably with everything super good anybody comes up with. It's better to under estimate demand and slowly ramp up so that when pent demand diminishes you don't have wharehouses of unsold product. For more on this read up on how the Wii almost killed Nintendo instead of save it. Any shortness of stock on the 3950 will probably last till early January and let up. Maybe always on the knife edge of instock vs. out of stock.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
13,655
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It also speaks against your idea that the main issue is supply - it's not. The main issue is somewhat unexpected demand.
One must also consider AMD's future position 8+ months from now when they are preparing to launch Vermeer. How much Matisse stock do you think they want lingering on the market? The 2700x is still widely-available, so obviously AMD saturated the market with more Pinnacle Ridge than it needed (which is somewhat-understandable, especially given the WSA conditions which were relevant to Pinnacle Ridge but are not to Matisse).

If AMD can meet demand with steady supply that often fails to meet demand surges but still results in the sale of nearly every chip they produce, then they can enter 2020 with very little excess stock in the channel. This tactic gives them the opportunity to introduce a massive product upgrade to the market one year later without damaging their brand or bloating the channel with orphaned product. AMD has been hitting the market with one significant upgrade after another on a yearly basis since 2017, and their current strategy indicates that they will continue to do so through at least 2021 (or 2022, if Zen5 readily comes to fruition).

I'm sure AMD has also learned from the mining boom.
 

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