Question Rethinking AMD consumer CPU lineup in the situation of chiplet scarcity

[Kocicak]

If we look at the higher end of the consumer CPU lineup by AMD (beginning with Ryzen 3600), and the fact that AMD is unable to deliver a highly clocked 6+6 core CPU and effectively offers no high core count CPU at this point, and the fact that the high quality chiplets are better used in server CPUs, I believe it is time to radically rethink the lineup of consumer CPUs.

I believe the higher end of the consumer CPU lineup can comprise of just 4-5 processors.

1) 6C 3.9/4.2 65W - the same as current 3600 - price 200 USD
2) 6+6C 3.6/4.2 95W - made from two chiplets which are used in 6C - price 300 USD

These two CPUs can cover 75-90% of the market demand, they are made from low quality chiplets which can have up to two nonfunctional cores. These chiplets are unusable in server processors anyway. They are essentially a waste product of server CPU production.

The market demand can be nearly all covered by chiplets that are not needed for server CPU production !!!

3) 8C 4.0/4.7 95W - very high quality chiplet which could be used in server CPU - price 400-450 USD
4) 8+8C 3.8/4.7 135W - made from two chiplets which are used in 8C - price 750-800 USD

5) 8+8C-super ?/? ?W - made from "miraculous chiplets", intended for those who want something extraordinary and special - price 1000 - 1200 USD. Existence of this product depends on the existence and quantity of those "miraculous chiplets".

What do you think?

 

[Thunder 57]

@Kocicak
Back on topic, I wonder if you are familiar with the Intel CPU software upgrades from about 10 years ago?

Why was it OK for Intel to sell a CPU that was intentionally slowed down, unless you paid even more to get full performance from the CPU you already purchased? Why is it OK for Intel to today sell an i5 that is really an i7?

I actually thought it was an interesting idea. Say you were on a tight budget, but could buy an i3. Then, a year later, spend say $100 and "upgrade" it to an i5. No messing around with hardware. Obviously, Joe Public didn't like the idea. I think the system was cracked too so people could upgrade for free. While it may be a good idea in theory, there really isn't a way to market it that wouldn't make people think they got swindled.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[Kocicak]

I suggested this lineup recently:

So the lineup would then be:

LQ 6C - $200
LQ 6C + LQ 6C - $300
HQ 8C - $400
HQ 8C + LQ 6C - $500
HQ 8C + HQ 8C - $750

AMD curent lineup is: (LQ - low quality, HQ - high -, EHQ extra high - )

LQ 6C = Ryzen 3600
HQ 6C = Ryzen 3600X
LQ 8C = Ryzen 3700X
HQ 8C = Ryzen 3800X
EHQ 6C + HQ 6C = Ryzen 3900X - very limited supply
EHQ 8C + HQ 8C = Ryzen 3950X - extremelly limited supply

Besides an option of making LQ 6C + LQ 6C (3600x2) I have been already very strongly proposing, why not to make something from this list:

HQ 6C + LQ 6C *
HQ 6C + HQ 6C
LQ 8C + LQ 8C
HQ 8C + LQ 8C *
HQ 8C + HQ 8C

No need for extra high quality silicon. I marked the options which are the most practical in my opinion with asterix.

This could solve a lot of problems with supply.
What is the point of having expensive CPUs with very high specs that nobody can buy?
Why not to make cheaper and more reasonably specified CPUs which people could buy?

 

[UsandThem]

EHQ 6C + HQ 6C = Ryzen 3900X - very limited supply
EHQ 8C + HQ 8C = Ryzen 3950X - extremelly limited supply

What is the point of having expensive CPUs with very high specs that nobody can buy?
Why not to make cheaper and more reasonably specified CPUs which people could buy?

It probably doesn't help the overall supply of those two CPUs when some people buy them, and then return them because one of the cores boosts 50Mhz less than the what the best cores do. Just sayin'..........

 

[Zucker2k]

It probably doesn't help the overall supply of those two CPUs when some people buy them, and then return them because one of the cores boosts 50Mhz less than the what the best cores do. Just sayin'..........

You can't really blame the consumer here. Imagine if boost clocks were 100MHz lower. Buyers will be freaking out about how their Ryzen cpus are performing even better than advertised. AMD shot themselves in the foot here. Performance is the same, but buyer perception and satisfaction will be in the ++++ category.

 

[Arkaign]

Thought about getting a 3900 or 3950 to replace the 3700X, but damn, they are seriously not common, and I'm not sure it would pay off for me. I don't do any heavy compute beyond playing around with hobbyist level stuff.

 

[UsandThem]

You can't really blame the consumer here. Imagine if boost clocks were 100MHz lower. Buyers will be freaking out about how their Ryzen cpus are performing even better than advertised. AMD shot themselves in the foot here. Performance is the same, but buyer perception and satisfaction will be in the ++++ category.

Oh, I can and I will.

Not one single person would "suffer" from that 100Mhz. IMO, in was WAY overblown, and after reading the details about it, I really couldn't care less about the "problem". And if they couldn't live with it, then don't return the 3900X and then buy a 3950X.

And it's not that AMD gets a free pass here. I'd say the same thing if someone was whining about a similar thing with their particular 9900K say not hitting 5GHz on all cores, and claiming it was a "dud" or "defective".

 

[Thunder 57]

They have no problem selling everything they are making right now with current prices and gaining plenty of market share. Why mess with a good thing? 3900X supply seems to have sorted itself out already, 3950X will soon enough as well. Remember how hard it was to find six core Coffee Lake CPU's at first? I didn't see you complaining then.

You are basically complaining that AMD makes CPU's that are just so darn good everybody wants one. If anything the retailers should limit these to one or two per customer until supply catches up to help prevent price gouging.

 

[Kocicak]

I returned the 3900X because it did not boost as advertised. I returned the 3950X because I actually cannot afford it. I returned both because I at this moment have no use for so much computing power. The current 3800X WORKS AS ADVERTISED (3 cores hit the boost fr. and all do not boost below 100MHz from the boost fr.), I am satisfied with it.

Back to the topic: I see it as nothing bad for the image of AMD if they released e.g. 3940X with 100-200 MHz lower boost frequency or/and a little higher TDP. They still have quite a large gap between 500 and 750 USD prices to place something inbetween.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Back to the topic: I see it as nothing bad for the image of AMD if they released e.g. 3940X with 100-200 MHz lower boost frequency or/and a little higher TDP.

If you want AMD to modify their product lineup, get a job there and change it from the inside. Otherwise just deal with what's on the market.

 

[Kocicak]

Otherwise just deal with what's on the market.

If AMD does not have expensive products available, people wanting to buy them will buy cheaper products instead or will not buy anything. One party most unhappy about this low supply is AMD themselves.

If they released 3940X slightly slower than 3950X for e.g. 650 USD, everybody would be happy, not only customers because they could get what they want.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If AMD does not have expensive products available, people wanting to buy them will buy cheaper products instead or will not buy anything. One party most unhappy about this low supply is AMD themselves.

If they released 3940X slightly slower than 3950X for e.g. 650 USD, everybody would be happy, not only customers because they could get what they want.

Okay, so sell your ideas to Dr. Su. I'll wait here to see how it goes.

 

[Arkaign]

If anything, I think AMD could get some nice Zen2 chiplets into some freaking laptops already. The Zen+ 3000 series mobile products are pretty discouraging Especially when the goods are right there for the purpose. Obviously it would only be suitable for competing in the dGPU style classes for now, but the timeframe is agonizing. Zen2 would be vastly better for the segment.

 

[Kocicak]

I believe somebody from AMD reads fora. I am worried that even though what I wrote would probably be a good thing to do, it would not materialize just because somebody would think that releasing slower version of their product is not a good thing for the image of the company.

I believe that not being able to deliver products to the customers who want them is even worse for the image of the company.

 

[UsandThem]

Okay, so sell your ideas to Dr. Su. I'll wait here to see how it goes.

I believe somebody from AMD reads fora. I am worried that even though what I wrote would probably be a good thing to do, it would not materialize just because somebody would think that releasing slower version of their product is not a good thing for the image of the company.

I believe that not being able to deliver products to the customers who want them is even worse for the image of the company.

It sounds like someone is a shoe-in for the AMD marketing department, lol.

Did Intel's image really suffer over the 9900K always being sold out when it first launched (or selling for over MSRP) , outside of a few enthusiasts complaining about it on tech forums? The answer is nope. For people who wanted to a 9900K, they either waited for it to come in stock, or paid a premium at places like Newegg.

I swear some of these doom and gloom CPU posts (for both camps BTW) really should go into the "First World Problems" thread in OT.

 

[uzzi38]

It sounds like someone is a shoe-in for the AMD marketing department, lol.

Did Intel's image really suffer over the 9900K always being sold out when it first launched (or selling for over MSRP) , outside of a few enthusiasts complaining about it on tech forums? The answer is nope. For people who wanted to a 9900K, they either waited for it to come in stock, or paid a premium at places like Newegg.

I swear some of these doom and gloom CPU posts (for both camps BTW) really should go into the "First World Problems" thread in OT.

I'd dying to see these same threads when Comet Lake-S launches and the 8 and 10c chips are nowhere to be found.

 

[UsandThem]

I'd dying to see these same threads when Comet Lake-S launches and the 8 and 10c chips are nowhere to be found.

Exactly.

Heck, even right this moment, both AMD and Intel have such great CPUs that are in such demand, and both are struggling to produce enough to meet demand. Just take a look at what is in stock right now at a site like NowInStock. The 9900K, 9900FK and the 9900KS are not widely available.

This is almost what happened to AMD and Nvidia during the mining boom. They just couldn't produce them fast enough to meet demand.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If anything, I think AMD could get some nice Zen2 chiplets into some freaking laptops already.

Not gonna happen. Renoir is going to be monolithic. AMD isn't producing anything chiplet-based to compete with that, likely due to high idle power draw from IF connections.

 

[Thunder 57]

returned the 3950X because I actually cannot afford it.

Why would you buy something knowing you couldn't afford it??

I returned both because I at this moment have no use for so much computing power.

Why would you buy something if you had no use for what it does?

As Arnold Schwarzenegger once said, stop whining! Nothing you do or propose seems to make much (if any) sense. That's why people grow tired of your posts.

 

[uzzi38]

Not gonna happen. Renoir is going to be monolithic. AMD isn't producing anything chiplet-based to compete with that, likely due to high idle power draw from IF connections.

Not entirely true, the IFOP links themselves use up about 0.3W of power. Hardly anything (but that being said, any idle power is bad).

The bigger problem preventing chiplet in mobile is routing. The I/O die and it's 12W of power can be replaced, but take a look at how complex the routing was to get MAtisse working on AM4. AMD certainly won't be doing that for mobile.

 

[UsandThem]

Why would you buy something knowing you couldn't afford it??



Why would you buy something if you had no use for what it does?
.
As Arnold Schwarzenegger once said, stop whining! Nothing you do or propose seems to make much (if any) sense. That's why people grow tired of your posts.

This is why places like Newegg and B&H Photo changed their return policies. Just because there are some people who abuse it so badly, honest regular people get stuck with crappy return policies because of the fraud and abuse by some. And yes I bolded it for that to stand out because that's exactly what it is.

 

[Kocicak]

Nothing you do or propose seems to make much (if any) sense. That's why people grow tired of your posts.

I wish you could stop whining about how bad my posts are. Simply quit reading them, man! Or are you masochist of some sort?

 

[Markfw]

I wish you could stop whining about how bad my posts are. Simply quit reading them, man! Or are you masochist of some sort?

We are ALL sick of your nonsense posts. And NOTE: Usandthem's bolded text above. You abuse the system as well as us.

 

[uzzi38]

I wish you could stop whining about how bad my posts are. Simply quit reading them, man! Or are you masochist of some sort?

He has every right to point out your posts are dumb. Just as you have every right to post them. Welcome to the internet.

 

[RetroZombie]

I returned the 3900X because it did not boost as advertised. I returned the 3950X because I actually cannot afford it. They still have quite a large gap between 500 and 750 USD prices to place something inbetween.

If the cheaper and the more expensive didn't fulfill your needs how something between would?