Question Rethinking AMD consumer CPU lineup in the situation of chiplet scarcity

[Kocicak]

If we look at the higher end of the consumer CPU lineup by AMD (beginning with Ryzen 3600), and the fact that AMD is unable to deliver a highly clocked 6+6 core CPU and effectively offers no high core count CPU at this point, and the fact that the high quality chiplets are better used in server CPUs, I believe it is time to radically rethink the lineup of consumer CPUs.

I believe the higher end of the consumer CPU lineup can comprise of just 4-5 processors.

1) 6C 3.9/4.2 65W - the same as current 3600 - price 200 USD
2) 6+6C 3.6/4.2 95W - made from two chiplets which are used in 6C - price 300 USD

These two CPUs can cover 75-90% of the market demand, they are made from low quality chiplets which can have up to two nonfunctional cores. These chiplets are unusable in server processors anyway. They are essentially a waste product of server CPU production.

The market demand can be nearly all covered by chiplets that are not needed for server CPU production !!!

3) 8C 4.0/4.7 95W - very high quality chiplet which could be used in server CPU - price 400-450 USD
4) 8+8C 3.8/4.7 135W - made from two chiplets which are used in 8C - price 750-800 USD

5) 8+8C-super ?/? ?W - made from "miraculous chiplets", intended for those who want something extraordinary and special - price 1000 - 1200 USD. Existence of this product depends on the existence and quantity of those "miraculous chiplets".

What do you think?

 

[Thunder 57]

You can NOT get 3950X anywhere now.

Shut up. You got one. That you couldn't afford. Then returned it.

AMD could make something like 3x more profit on serving two customers, if they sold them each 3940X instead of 3700X or 3800X. Can you understand it now?

I guess AMD is full of dumbasses and you are a genius. They are so dumb, they designed a CPU that flys off the shelves. I have to give you credit for one thing, you don't give up. Even if you keep admitting foolish things over and over.

 

[Thunder 57]

Shut up. You got one. That you couldn't afford. Then returned it.



I guess AMD is full of dumbasses and you are a genius. They are so dumb, they designed a CPU that flys off the shelves. I have to give you credit for one thing, you don't give up. Even if you keep admitting foolish things over and over.

And maybe you should read the 9900KS thread. The 9900K and KS are being sold over MSRP and hard to find. Why not complain about that too?

Oops, didn't mean to reply to myself.

 

[amrnuke]

Information about binning IO dies in interesting, do you have any sources so that I can learn more? IO dies are made on an old matured process, I see no reason why many of them should be incapable of running two chiplets.

First, a refresher.
1) Each chiplet contains 8 cores, split into 2 CCXs. On 3900X, 3600, 3600X, those CCXs contain only 3 cores each, 1 core disabled. On 3950X, 3700X, 3800X, those CCXs contain 4 cores each.
2) Communication within the CCX does not go through the I/O die, so we can toss that out. However, even on the same chiplet, communication from one CCX to the other DOES go through the I/O die.
3) As a result, we can look to the inter-CCX latency on 3700X vs 3900X (as done by 3dnews.ru) to get a good feel for whether AMD may be binning the I/O die.

3700X average latency inter-CCX is about 72.5ns, and on the 3900X is about 68.5ns. That's a 6% faster inter-CCX latency on 3900X compared to 3700X. Because IF was locked to mem clock on their tests (not dependent on CPU core clock speed), there is no reason this latency should be lower unless the I/O die is being binned. Even if you consider it might be related to CPU core clocks, the 3900X is only 4.5% faster than the 3700X, so we still have a gap to explain.

Have AMD said they are binning the I/O die? No. But since there are certainly defective IODs and some of those may have defects in the second chiplet link, and since some of the IODs may simply not clock as high on the IF link or be as responsive, and based on the data above, I feel certain that AMD are doing some sort of binning on the IOD.

Lets say that the total cost of production of 3700X is X and of 3800X 1.05X. You get revenue of 630 when selling them and cost 2.05X. You get profit of 630-2.05X while serving two customers.

Cost of production of 3940X would be something like a 1.3-1.4X and revenue 650. You get higher profit by serving just one customer.

AMD could make something like 3x more profit on serving two customers, if they sold them each 3940X instead of 3700X or 3800X. Can you understand it now?

Did you forget that the person buying a 3940X then is not buying a 3950X at $750? You can't think of it only in terms of what they can charge for the 3940X, but also in terms of pilfering sales of higher-margin parts.

AMD have plenty of demand, plenty of supply, and they have no competition from Intel for the 3950X. They have no reason to make a cheaper chip for less money when people will happily buy a better, more expensive chip for more money.

 

[Thunder 57]

AMD have plenty of demand, plenty of supply, and they have no competition from Intel for the 3950X. They have no reason to make a cheaper chip for less money when people will happily buy a better, more expensive chip for more money.

Don't try reasoning with him. He seems to think we are all AMD shareholders. And he has called AMD a "money grabbing monster". Well, what about Intel and their software unlocks @Kocicak? Still waiting for you to respond to that.

AMD needs the money as they have been bleeding it for so long. With it, under the right leadership, they will continue to innovate and create competitive products. As consumers, we want competition. Just look at what happened during the 2600k - 7700k years.

EDIT,

And having too many SKU's isn't good either. You will end up with leftover stock and it clutters the market. I believe @DrMrLordX already mentioned this, comparing it to the mining market.

 

[Kocicak]

Shut up. You got one. That you couldn't afford. Then returned it.

Sorry, If I could by chance and luck get one does not mean that everybody who wants one can get one. As I mentioned earlier, the topic of this discussion has nothing to do with my person.

Your attempts to redirect the discussion to my person, your personal insults and attacks are getting tiresome and I have no Idea why moderators let you behave this way.




Mod callout. The only forum for voicing moderator
issues or concerns is in the MD forum.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Markfw]

Sorry, If I could by chance and luck get one does not mean that everybody who wants one can get one. As I mentioned earlier, the topic of this discussion has nothing to do with my person.

Your attempts to redirect the discussion to my person, your personal insults and attacks are getting tiresome and I have no Idea why moderators let you behave this way.

Your behaviour in this thread has everything to do with your person. Buying CPUs that you don't have the money for, and have no use for the power they have, and then returning them is one of the keys as to why everyone is upset with you. There are many other reasons, but that one is the easiest to explain, and there is no way to deny it, since its your own words.

 

[UsandThem]

Sorry, If I could by chance and luck get one does not mean that everybody who wants one can get one. As I mentioned earlier, the topic of this discussion has nothing to do with my person.

Focusing on just your "idea" or proposal, post #238 by ammuke explains it (in detail) to you why in makes zero sense for AMD to do it.

If you want want to keep beating a dead horse over the unicorn 6+6 core CPU for $300 you seem to be so obsessed over, I suggest applying for a position with at AMD with either their engineering department (since you seem to have inside info on the quality of their chiplets and manufacturing processes), or maybe their marketing department because you keep telling us how AMD should price their products. https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/careers

Otherwise, I'm sure everyone here is tired of seeing posts concerning the following items:

1. Your "disappointment" with AMD CPUs (even more so after you admitted abusing business's return policies, and had no money or use for the CPUs you complained about being "defective" and "disappointing").

2. Your claims about AMD's engineering/producing of "low-quality" and "miraculous-quality" chiplets.

3. A 6 + 6 core "unicorn" CPU for $300

And of course your reputation here has to do with your "person". You basically lied about the performance of the 3900X (too much CPU) and 3950X (no money), and abused a retailer's return policy. Once people see that sort of thing, you will be known/remembered for doing that.

 

[Thunder 57]

Sorry, If I could by chance and luck get one does not mean that everybody who wants one can get one. As I mentioned earlier, the topic of this discussion has nothing to do with my person.

Your attempts to redirect the discussion to my person, your personal insults and attacks are getting tiresome and I have no Idea why moderators let you behave this way.




Mod callout. The only forum for voicing moderator
issues or concerns is in the MD forum.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

The fact that you got one that you ended up returning means that somebody else couldn't get one. So thank yourself for that. As for personal insults, I'm just saying things that seem to be true. You still won't answer my question about Intel software upgrades. Or why you bought a CPU that you couldn't find a use for/couldn't afford.

I don't know who your friends and family are, but I have no idea why they let you behave the way you do.