Republicans losing their resolve on Obamacare, losing their votes, and losing face.

[Doc Savage Fan]

Except of course Republicans repeatedly claimed that they had their own alternative that was almost ready... for years and years while never producing one. They clearly didn't think that having legislation the president would sign was a necessary condition so why are you trying to claim they did?

I'm not claiming they already have legislation that Trump will sign. That's a lie. I claimed that they have several bills already written in legislative language....and that they need to get agreement with Trump on which path they want to take forward and make any modifications as necessary.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well, right now his plan amounts to "get rid of Obamacare and... I got nothing."

In your mind I'm sure this is true.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not claiming they already have legislation that Trump will sign. That's a lie. I claimed that they have several bills already written in legislative language....and that they need to get agreement with Trump on which path they want to take forward and make any modifications as necessary.

So what were they waiting for for the last seven years when they said they had an alternative almost ready that never materialized? Were they lying?

 

[fskimospy]

Interesting question I just read: what if congress did nothing and Trump just lied yet again and said that he repealed Obamacare and replaced it with something really really super great? What percentage of Republicans would believe him (and think he made it better)? I would say at least 40%.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So what were they waiting for for the last seven years when they said they had an alternative almost ready that never materialized? Were they lying?

No. You'll see their plan when it's agreed to and publicly announced at which time you can freely admit that you were wrong on this point. But rest assured that those of us that know you won't be holding their breathe waiting. That said, I'm amused that you're so concerned about the remote possibility of their lying on this issue...especially so soon after your bald-faced lie regarding what I said on this issue just a few posts above. The irony is thick.

 

[fskimospy]

No. You'll see their plan when it's agreed to and publicly announced at which time you can freely admit that you were wrong on this point. But rest assured that those that know you won't hold their breathe waiting. However, I'm amused that your so concerned about their lying on this issue...especially so soon after your bald-faced lie regarding what I said on this issue. The irony is thick.

Okay so if they weren't lying can you explain the half decade of promises of their plan coming in the near future? Were they just taking a REALLY expansive definition of 'soon'? Lol.

I am concerned about their obvious lies on this issue as should you be. That you are inventing excuses for them that they never made is both telling and highly dishonest. You can do better, so I encourage you to.

 

[Jhhnn]

Okay so if they weren't lying can you explain the half decade of promises of their plan coming in the near future? Were they just taking a REALLY expansive definition of 'soon'? Lol.

"Soon" as in geological time.

I am concerned about their obvious lies on this issue as should you be. That you are inventing excuses for them that they never made is both telling and highly dishonest. You can do better, so I encourage you to.

He's desperate to defend the team. It's easy to be the party of No, to enjoy the luxury of attacking from utterly insincere positions, to feed on the negativity created. Repubs have done it long enough that they don't know how to do much of anything else. Well, other than cut taxes at the tippy top, deregulate, privatize & whatever else serves the lootocracy.

GWB 2.0, with more viagra.

I suspect their efforts will be concentrated in those areas. It's not like they'll get much push back from the Trump White House, either.

 

[Commodus]

In your mind I'm sure this is true.

So, what's Trump's post-Obamacare plan? Surely you must have the inside track.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So, what's Trump's post-Obamacare plan? Surely you must have the inside track.

All I know is what I read in the news.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Your insight is much appreciated and speaks volumes about you.

I just believe people when they tell me who they are. Trump has never claimed to care about anything but himself.

 

[glenn1]

Except of course Republicans repeatedly claimed that they had their own alternative that was almost ready... for years and years while never producing one. They clearly didn't think that having legislation the president would sign was a necessary condition so why are you trying to claim they did?

If Pelosi can say "we have to pass the bill before you can see what's in it" then so can Republicans.

 

[fskimospy]

If Pelosi can say "we have to pass the bill before you can see what's in it" then so can Republicans.

One problem with that: she never said it. She said that the bill 'needed to be passed so that you can actually find out what's in it, away from the fog of controversy'. Not BEFORE. At the time she made that statement the legislation under consideration was posted on the internet for anyone who wanted to read it so no, people most certainly did not need to wait until the bill was passed before seeing what was in it.

If anything, the ACA was maybe the most transparently debated and passed piece of legislation in all of American history.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The Democrat plan was pretty much as well thought out as brain surgery done by a bunch of drunks after a football game. It was awful, but something happened.

If the Republicans were smart they would do what the Dems should have and looked into "patient first" considerations and found the best minds to create and manage a unified system.

Well that's what would happen if Republicans were smart. In reality they are bound by politics and ignorance as their counterparts.

Don't look for improvement, but hopefully things like coverage of preexisting conditions will stay around as well as some other things. Since there is no vision to be found then that's the best we might do.

 

[Jhhnn]

If Pelosi can say "we have to pass the bill before you can see what's in it" then so can Republicans.

So what? Repubs don't have a bill that wouldn't fit on the back of a cocktail napkin, which is to say they have nothing.

 

[glenn1]

One problem with that: she never said it. She said that the bill 'needed to be passed so that you can actually find out what's in it, away from the fog of controversy'. Not BEFORE. At the time she made that statement the legislation under consideration was posted on the internet for anyone who wanted to read it so no, people most certainly did not need to wait until the bill was passed before seeing what was in it.

If anything, the ACA was maybe the most transparently debated and passed piece of legislation in all of American history.

She said that on March 8th, reconciled ACA passed House on March 23rd which was different than the House bill. The Senate version didn't exist yet when she made those remarks which is why she stated them. Here's even more context to your supposed context, direct quotes from Pelosi:

“So, that’s why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn’t,” Pelosi continued. “It is none of these things. It’s not going to be any of these things.” She recognized that her comment was “a good statement to take out of context.” But the minority leader added, “But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can’t really, we can’t really debunk what they’re saying....”

 

[Jhhnn]

One problem with that: she never said it. She said that the bill 'needed to be passed so that you can actually find out what's in it, away from the fog of controversy'. Not BEFORE. At the time she made that statement the legislation under consideration was posted on the internet for anyone who wanted to read it so no, people most certainly did not need to wait until the bill was passed before seeing what was in it.

If anything, the ACA was maybe the most transparently debated and passed piece of legislation in all of American history.

Conservatives went post-truth back in 1994, maybe earlier. It's just been sound bite sloganeering ever since.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I just believe people when they tell me who they are. Trump has never claimed to care about anything but himself.

And I believe people who show me who they are.

 

[fskimospy]

She said that on March 8th, reconciled ACA passed House on March 23rd which was different than the House bill. The Senate version didn't exist yet when she made those remarks which is why she stated them.

No, that is factually false. The Senate version was passed on December 24th, 2009.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00396

In fact it was the version that the House passed because that's the version they had to pass due to Senator Kennedy dying. A second reconciliation bill was passed after the ACA was passed in order to amend the original bill. The reconciliation bill by definition would have to be identical in both the House and Senate. More importantly, the reconciliation bill did not change the fundamental structure of the bill, it mostly just messed with the exact numbers. (increased the value of subsidies, changed the calculations, etc)

Here's even more context to your supposed context, direct quotes from Pelosi:

“So, that’s why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn’t,” Pelosi continued. “It is none of these things. It’s not going to be any of these things.” She recognized that her comment was “a good statement to take out of context.” But the minority leader added, “But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can’t really, we can’t really debunk what they’re saying....”

Not sure what context you think this adds.

 

[momeNt]

How much of the ACA actually addressed "care"? And how much addressed insurance? Honest question.

 

[Jhhnn]

She said that on March 8th, reconciled ACA passed House on March 23rd which was different than the House bill. The Senate version didn't exist yet when she made those remarks which is why she stated them. Here's even more context to your supposed context, direct quotes from Pelosi:

“So, that’s why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn’t,” Pelosi continued. “It is none of these things. It’s not going to be any of these things.” She recognized that her comment was “a good statement to take out of context.” But the minority leader added, “But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can’t really, we can’t really debunk what they’re saying....”

And... the double down diversion. What Pelosi said back then no longer matters. They put forth a plan.

Repubs claim to have a plan, so let's see it. They've been working on it for the last 6 years, right?

 

[soundforbjt]

And... the double down diversion. What Pelosi said back then no longer matters. They put forth a plan.

Repubs claim to have a plan, so let's see it. They've been working on it for the last 6 years, right?

The only "plan" I heard of was to sell insurance over state lines which would accomplish nothing compared to what they would repeal.

 

[First]

Governing is indeed very, very difficult. Poor Trump voters will soon learn how hard.

 

[Brainonska511]

The only "plan" I heard of was to sell insurance over state lines which would accomplish nothing compared to what they would repeal.

And the ACA already allows them to do that. They're (the insurance companies) not interested because part of keeping costs down for insurance is negotiating rates with doctors and hospitals in different states.

 

[soundforbjt]

And the ACA already allows them to do that. They're (the insurance companies) not interested because part of keeping costs down for insurance is negotiating rates with doctors and hospitals in different states.

I know that but repub critters in Congress keep claiming it's a plan.

 

[hal2kilo]

as much of a chance as they gave Obama.

They'll be hearing this a lot, the next 4 years.