Republicans know they're in trouble once the website problems are solved

[Hayabusa Rider]

The Republicans are just shooting blanks, and the Democrats are delusional. Maddow is right about the bolded. She's also right that some people will benefit, but it's not going to be that way for many. Then there's "improving the health care system". Maddow and the Democrats apparently don't know what that means. Maybe she thinks seniors need to be protected from getting diabetic necessities or access to their medication history if they can't get out.

 

[yllus]

The website will be a big deal for another week or two and then it'll be stale news (a website not working doesn't make for great television). It'll get better incrementally and before too long (two or three years) it'll be just another part of American life.

At this point I think the Republicans can milk this a little longer, but at some point the fact that they're going all-negative-all-the-time is going to wear people out. The Democrats would be wise to take a stance of, "We're trying to help you, while their major efforts these days revolve around whining about a website not working."

 

[Doppel]

Wow, your transformation into an entirely useless tool is complete. Shocking, especially after all that enlightenment bullshit you were spreading before.

You're such a hypocrite. :hmm:

Unfortunately we see him betray a vehement hatred toward half the nation. This hatred is a mirror image of his own self-hatred looking for an outlet that lets him live with the trauma he suffered as a child.

Is that more or less how it goes? I only wrote that because I hate myself, though. Even my sarcasm on the matter screams of a low self-worth.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The Republicans are just shooting blanks, and the Democrats are delusional. Maddow is right about the bolded. She's also right that some people will benefit, but it's not going to be that way for many. Then there's "improving the health care system". Maddow and the Democrats apparently don't know what that means. Maybe she thinks seniors need to be protected from getting diabetic necessities or access to their medication history if they can't get out.

if you're talking about the test strip thing it is the correct call and it is how you would spend your own money. Some companies have been over charging for decades. Look at WalMart. Test strips can range from $9 for 50 up to $77 for 50. Yes the more expensive strips are more accurate but not that much more accurate. The higher priced strips are mainly there for people with prescriptions to pay extra for a similar result and not notice the increased cost per strip.

 

[waggy]

Or they will find that the website was yet another example of Obama cronyism and corruption?

First Lady Michelle Obama’s Princeton classmate is a top executive at the company that earned the contract to build the failed Obamacare website.

Toni Townes-Whitley, Princeton class of ’85, is senior vice president at CGI Federal, which earned the no-bid contract to build the $678 million Obamacare enrollment website at Healthcare.gov. CGI Federal is the U.S. arm of a Canadian company.

Townes-Whitley and her Princeton classmate Michelle Obama are both members of the Association of Black Princeton Alumni.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/25/m...y-that-built-obamacare-website/#ixzz2invvwP5w

wait..they paid $678 million to make the site? god damn..

 

[z1ggy]

wait..they paid $678 million to make the site? god damn..

LOL if that's true thats insane. That's 1/10th the cost it takes our country to build the next ballistic missile submarine, but that total process of design and build takes 20-25 years!!!

Sounds like another epic waste of our tax money. Dems can't get a system to work right that they had over 3 years to perfect, and the Repubs can't stop bitching about it. God damn our government sucks.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

if you're talking about the test strip thing it is the correct call and it is how you would spend your own money. Some companies have been over charging for decades. Look at WalMart. Test strips can range from $9 for 50 up to $77 for 50. Yes the more expensive strips are more accurate but not that much more accurate. The higher priced strips are mainly there for people with prescriptions to pay extra for a similar result and not notice the increased cost per strip.

I get the higher price strips and because it's a prescription I get a 90 day supply (300) for $67 using my drug plan.

 

[sportage]

I think they said this same stuff about the birth of Medicare AND Social Security.
How it would destroy America as we know it. Etc etc...
If I remember, old Ronny Reagan was one of the loudest critics back in his days of black & white film.

Only difference, they didn't have the web back then.
Imagine if they did.

"If you build it they will come", as the saying goes.
So we shall see.
And just as with Social Security and Medicare, if ACA turns out to be something useful and desired by the people, everything else will become moot.
Rollout bumps forgotten.
Just as the case with medicare and SS, minus the web.

 

[KK]

So currently the uninsured are going to run out and get this obamacare? That was one of the main points of it, wasn't it. From the other thread here, So all these project/trailer trash people out there that currently don't have insurance and are a burden to society, still won't be forced to get insurance as there are no enforcable penalties, and still will be a burden to the ones that do have insurance?

 

[trenchfoot]

I think they said this same stuff about the birth of Medicare AND Social Security.
How it would destroy America as we know it. Etc etc...
If I remember, old Ronny Reagan was one of the loudest critics back in his days of black & white film.

Only difference, they didn't have the web back then.
Imagine if they did.

"If you build it they will come", as the saying goes.
So we shall see.
And just as with Social Security and Medicare, if ACA turns out to be something useful and desired by the people, everything else will become moot.
Rollout bumps forgotten.
Just as the case with medicare and SS, minus the web.

Yeh, I can see the near future where, like medicare and SS, the critics who screamed the loudest and who protested against those programs with the most vehement rhetoric will be quietly enjoying the benefits of the program on a personal and familial level while hypocritically continuing to rail against it on the political stage of public opinion. 😉

 

[z1ggy]

So currently the uninsured are going to run out and get this obamacare? That was one of the main points of it, wasn't it. From the other thread here, So all these project/trailer trash people out there that currently don't have insurance and are a burden to society, still won't be forced to get insurance as there are no enforcable penalties, and still will be a burden to the ones that do have insurance?

I think the point/idea was... If you got sick you went to the ER and paid X dollars. Now you can go get obamacare and when you go to the ER it's X-y dollars because paying for obamacare is supposed to be cheaper then the huge med bill you'd get. However, I'm betting/guessing many of the trailer trash don't even pay it and then the costs just get passed on to us non trailer folk who get higher premiums.

Did I get that right?

 

[raildogg]

Or maybe we're all fudged when the website problems are solved? Have you ever thought about people as people rather than Democrats or Republicans?

Look at the ACA without Democrat or Republican color lenses please.

 

[trenchfoot]

Or maybe we're all fudged when the website problems are solved? Have you ever thought about people as people rather than Democrats or Republicans?

Look at the ACA without Democrat or Republican color lenses please.

Excellent point. Objectivity above all else. Let's sit back, give the ACA time to mature and let the $$$$ fall where they may.

What's missing here though, is that for some folks, ideology always takes precedence over the facts of a matter. With the ACA, the Repub effort was/is to kill it in it's infancy and not even give it a chance to prove its worth. Ergo, your sensible logical approach to this issue is rendered moot.

 

[boomerang]

I think the point/idea was... If you got sick you went to the ER and paid X dollars. Now you can go get obamacare and when you go to the ER it's X-y dollars because paying for obamacare is supposed to be cheaper then the huge med bill you'd get. However, I'm betting/guessing many of the trailer trash don't even pay it and then the costs just get passed on to us non trailer folk who get higher premiums.

Did I get that right?

You left out the part where insurance companies get subsidies from taxpayer dollars if they incur losses in the first three years. If this was a Republican plan the lefties would be going ape shit. But, it's the Obama/Reid/Pelosi plan so it's all good.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...nsurers-but-it-wouldnt-induce-a-death-spiral/

 

[Matt1970]

Excellent point. Objectivity above all else. Let's sit back, give the ACA time to mature and let the $$$$ fall where they may.

What's missing here though, is that for some folks, ideology always takes precedence over the facts of a matter. With the ACA, the Repub effort was/is to kill it in it's infancy and not even give it a chance to prove its worth. Ergo, your sensible logical approach to this issue is rendered moot.

That approach is fine and dandy but do you really think if it turns out to be a complete disaster it would get repealed? Prohibition was a disaster that took 13 years to get repealed and that was just a simple ban on alcohol.

 

[boomerang]

That approach is fine and dandy but do you really think if it turns out to be a complete disaster it would get repealed? Prohibition was a disaster that took 13 years to get repealed and that was just a simple ban on alcohol.

How about this?

Read the voting ID threads right now. The "ultimate" argument of the left is the cost of implementing voter ID programs. Yes, they forget that in 34 states it's the law but we'll forget that for the sake of argument.

The cost! The cost! OMG, think of the cost! Wasted tax dollars! Now this is on a program they don't want. All fiscal conservative when it's something they oppose.

How much money will be thrown away if Obamacare proves to not be viable? Trillions, easy. This is nooo problem. Despite what we can easily recognize as major fatal flaws in this dead of the night passed piece of legislation, we need to wait it out and see what happens.

Guess who'll they'll blame if it fails? One guess.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

if you're talking about the test strip thing it is the correct call and it is how you would spend your own money. Some companies have been over charging for decades. Look at WalMart. Test strips can range from $9 for 50 up to $77 for 50. Yes the more expensive strips are more accurate but not that much more accurate. The higher priced strips are mainly there for people with prescriptions to pay extra for a similar result and not notice the increased cost per strip.

Really? Medicare pays less than acutal cost for most strips. Reimbursement is fixed by the ggovernment and has been for decades. Then most are proprietary so unless you have the right meter you are out of luck. Then they can still be filled at a significant loss and we still can't deliver for free.

Your argument had no legs. It's a cockup that has no benefit.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You may have you option Mr Rider. I'm simply stating there can be large cost discrepancies on something like test strips and I find it hard to believe the premium brand ones cost Medicare the same amount as the value brand strips.

 

[shira]

From the Republicans: We told you it needed to be delayed.

From the Democrats: You better hope we don't fix our cluster-fuck website or you are going to look silly.

The website's problems will easily be fixed by the deadline of the mandate - March 31, 2014. So how do you get from website glitches needing to be repaired to the conclusion that all of Obamacare needs to be delayed?

I mean, you really believe that it's such an overwhelming challenge - once people are able to sign up under the ACA for various insurance programs PRIVATELY IMPLEMENTED by insurance companies - to actually DELIVER health insurance to those who sign up?

But of course, as one pundit pointed out, from now on, ANY problem that someone has with their health insurance or with their medical care is going to be blamed on Obamacare, regardless of whether or not those problems are endemic to our pre-Obamacare system. Premiums go up 5% in 2015 (even though premiums have been going up by at least that much for decades)? Obamacare! Someone denied pre-clearance for a procedure for which pre-clearance has historically has been denied under the same scenario? Obamacare!

And I'm sure Matt1970 and boomerang and all the other right-wing zealots will be leading the mindless charge.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unfortunately we see him betray a vehement hatred toward half the nation. This hatred is a mirror image of his own self-hatred looking for an outlet that lets him live with the trauma he suffered as a child.

Is that more or less how it goes? I only wrote that because I hate myself, though. Even my sarcasm on the matter screams of a low self-worth.

It's not really half the nation, at all, more like a much smaller % raving & puffing their chests to give the impression of greater numbers.

They do get a fair # of otherwise rational people to buy in somewhat, but those people lack the commitment of the usual ravers. They'll likely come around once we get past the naysaying & into the reality of it all.

Which is basically why Repubs are screwed, and why they're fighting so desperately to prevent implementation. Their financial backers don't want us to depend on a democratic govt, but rather entirely on them, totally non-democratic business interests who've been selling us out for decades. They'd roll back the clock to the Gilded Age, and their followers are sufficiently delusional to believe that'd be just peachy.

 

[raildogg]

The website's problems will easily be fixed by the deadline of the mandate - March 31, 2014. So how do you get from website glitches needing to be repaired to the conclusion that all of Obamacare needs to be delayed?

I mean, you really believe that it's such an overwhelming challenge - once people are able to sign up under the ACA for various insurance programs PRIVATELY IMPLEMENTED by insurance companies - to actually DELIVER health insurance to those who sign up?

But of course, as one pundit pointed out, from now on, ANY problem that someone has with their health insurance or with their medical care is going to be blamed on Obamacare, regardless of whether or not those problems are endemic to our pre-Obamacare system. Premiums go up 5% in 2015 (even though premiums have been going up by at least that much for decades)? Obamacare! Someone denied pre-clearance for a procedure for which pre-clearance has historically has been denied under the same scenario? Obamacare!

And I'm sure Matt1970 and boomerang and all the other right-wing zealots will be leading the mindless charge.

You're probably just as much a left-wing zealot as they are, whoever they might be. 5% premium increase? What sort of world are you living in? How do we know what will happen in 2015? It's all based on theories that proclaim cost of premiums will go down. But it's just theories - no real meaning. The way things are done is changing. Some people's premiums are way, way up. Tell me it's got nothing to do with Obamacare.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You may have you option Mr Rider. I'm simply stating there can be large cost discrepancies on something like test strips and I find it hard to believe the premium brand ones cost Medicare the same amount as the value brand strips.

Belief is much of the problem with this subject. Pharmacies get paid to dispense "strips" and supplies. That is a fixed amount NOT dependent on acquisition costs. This is not opinion. That amount has been cut to not quite $25 for strip and lancets COMBINED. If you bothered to look you would know that. So an accounting question for you. If you have to spend over $150to buy something and you are paid $25 how much money did you make? That's not far from how it really is no faith involved. I'm sure Maddow is equally informed.

 

[shira]

How about this?

Read the voting ID threads right now. The "ultimate" argument of the left is the cost of implementing voter ID programs. Yes, they forget that in 34 states it's the law but we'll forget that for the sake of argument.

The cost! The cost! OMG, think of the cost! Wasted tax dollars! Now this is on a program they don't want. All fiscal conservative when it's something they oppose.

How much money will be thrown away if Obamacare proves to not be viable? Trillions, easy. This is nooo problem. Despite what we can easily recognize as major fatal flaws in this dead of the night passed piece of legislation, we need to wait it out and see what happens.

Guess who'll they'll blame if it fails? One guess.

You're hallucinating. I'm sure you can find lefties who oppose almost any right-wing program they don't like on the basis of cost, but I've never heard this with respect to voter ID laws. No, the overwhelming argument from the left against voter-ID laws is that they're clearly being implemented to suppress minority votes.

But keep on constructing straw-man arguments.

 

[michal1980]

LOL. I hope this does get implemented fully. There are already hundreds of thousands of people being dropped by insurance Obama promised they could keep.

The young wont pay, which will cause costs to exploded even higher.

Billions will be sucked out of the economy to pay for health insurance (not actual care), that people still wont use because if your so poor that you haven't bought insurance, how are you going to pay for both insurance, and a deductible.

This whole thing will turn into a clusterF**k. and I can't wait to see the dem's weasel and squirm their way out of it.

 

[Matt1970]

The website's problems will easily be fixed by the deadline of the mandate - March 31, 2014. So how do you get from website glitches needing to be repaired to the conclusion that all of Obamacare needs to be delayed?

I mean, you really believe that it's such an overwhelming challenge - once people are able to sign up under the ACA for various insurance programs PRIVATELY IMPLEMENTED by insurance companies - to actually DELIVER health insurance to those who sign up?

But of course, as one pundit pointed out, from now on, ANY problem that someone has with their health insurance or with their medical care is going to be blamed on Obamacare, regardless of whether or not those problems are endemic to our pre-Obamacare system. Premiums go up 5% in 2015 (even though premiums have been going up by at least that much for decades)? Obamacare! Someone denied pre-clearance for a procedure for which pre-clearance has historically has been denied under the same scenario? Obamacare!

And I'm sure Matt1970 and boomerang and all the other right-wing zealots will be leading the mindless charge.

Easily fixed huh? 5% in 2015? What happened top the cost reduction of $2500 per family? You drank the Kool Aid didn't you?