Republicans kill 9/11 first responder aid bill

[Moonbeam]

PeshakJang: So basically you are admitting that the Democrats are shutting the Republicans out of the drafting process.

M: I think he said they were shutting them our of adding poison amendments unrelated to the bill and with political motives other than improving the basic bill in question.

PJ: Next week you'll be in here saying, "The Republicans can't offer any alternatives or other ideas", while the Dems continue to shout "Obstructionism!".

M: More than likely because we see no evidence the Republicans will change. They will continue to try to poison or block positive legislation.

PJ: Petty politics the Dems are playing. They want to pass their agenda, opposing opinions be damned. If you say no, you hate America.

M: Clearly so given that the agenda is pro American people and anti-wealthy Republican folk who don't want to pay taxes.

PJ: What were you whining about for the last 8 years?

M: The worthless Republican shit that had control of the government.

 

[PeshakJang]

PeshakJang: So basically you are admitting that the Democrats are shutting the Republicans out of the drafting process.

M: I think he said they were shutting them our of adding poison amendments unrelated to the bill and with political motives other than improving the basic bill in question.

No, I get it. The Dems want to pass a bill without any Republican input, because whatever input is given is just "poison". Then they whine that the Republicans block the bill, which they had little to no input in. Later, they whine that the Republicans aren't offering any alternatives, and are simply the party of NO.

PJ: Next week you'll be in here saying, "The Republicans can't offer any alternatives or other ideas", while the Dems continue to shout "Obstructionism!".

M: More than likely because we see no evidence the Republicans will change. They will continue to try to poison or block positive legislation.

You lap up whatever you're told.... good little doggy.

PJ: Petty politics the Dems are playing. They want to pass their agenda, opposing opinions be damned. If you say no, you hate America.

M: Clearly so given that the agenda is pro American people and anti-wealthy Republican folk who don't want to pay taxes.

So far their stated agenda has been pro-American worker and anti-wealthy, while their enacted agenda is the exact opposite. Fortunately there are people like you who don't read beyond the headlines.

Republicans don't want to pay taxes? Republicans are anti-American people? Who's been trying to skip out on $500,00 taxes? How many Republicans appointed by Obama were caught evading hundreds of thousands in taxes? Who voted "NO" on suspending congressional pay raises?

You really are an ignorant child.

PJ: What were you whining about for the last 8 years?

M: The worthless Republican shit that had control of the government.

And now that the worthless Democratic shit has control, you're still finding a way to blame their ineptitude on somebody else.

"When their in control, it's their fault! When they're not in control... it's still their fault!"

Keep hating yourself, scared little child.

 

[Carmen813]

Are you familiar with the types of amendments typically offered on this kind of bill? It's how all the pork and knucklehead stuff many on this forum purport to hate gets added on at the 11th hour.

I have no problem putting it up for a vote that doesn't allow it to get stuck with all these shill amendments. The goal was to prevent either party from having a "win" before the election, and the sad fucking thing is that its on the backs of people who responded to the terrorists attacks. You think these children could grow up and share their successes for 3 god damn seconds.

 

[Jhhnn]

can you believe the democrats wanted to spend money on such trivial crap? Now? When we are in a massive recession brought on by taxing people?

Gawd that's lame- pure denial. Effective Federal tax rates are the lowest they've been at any point since WW2, and have generally fallen since 1980.

Arguments built on lies aren't arguments at all- they're pure self deception.

 

[JSt0rm]

Gawd that's lame- pure denial. Effective Federal tax rates are the lowest they've been at any point since WW2, and have generally fallen since 1980.

Arguments built on lies aren't arguments at all- they're pure self deception.

best tap your meter my friend

 

[Jhhnn]

best tap your meter my friend

Yeh, you're right. We may disagree at times, but you're reasonable, not the kind of idiot who would believe something like that... Mea Culpa. My apologies.

I've seen that crap expressed w/ true sincerity entirely too many times on this forum, unfortunately...

Republicans are evolving... from the party of bad ideas, to the party of no ideas, to the party of just say no, whatever it is...

 

[PeshakJang]

Yeh, you're right. We may disagree at times, but you're reasonable, not the kind of idiot who would believe something like that... Mea Culpa. My apologies.

I've seen that crap expressed w/ true sincerity entirely too many times on this forum, unfortunately...

Republicans are evolving... from the party of bad ideas, to the party of no ideas, to the party of just say no, whatever it is...

So it looks like they are evolving just as the Dems did 8 years ago... next stop, White House!

 

[PeshakJang]

Gawd that's lame- pure denial. Effective Federal tax rates are the lowest they've been at any point since WW2, and have generally fallen since 1980.

Arguments built on lies aren't arguments at all- they're pure self deception.

They haven't "fallen", they've been shifted more and more onto the top earners. And if anything, overall, they've remained pretty constant over the last 2 decades. The lowest end pays nothing or less than nothing, and the highest end pays more and more every year. Additionally, CBO projections expect that taxes across the board are going to be higher than they have been in the last 30 years, by 2014.

 

[CallMeJoe]

They haven't "fallen", they've been shifted more and more onto the top earners. And if anything, overall, they've remained pretty constant over the last 2 decades. The lowest end pays nothing or less than nothing, and the highest end pays more and more every year. Additionally, CBO projections expect that taxes across the board are going to be higher than they have been in the last 30 years, by 2014.

Tax rates, Einstein. The top earners are taxed at a lower rate but pay a larger share because they have an even larger share of total income.

 

[Atreus21]

Yeh, you're right. We may disagree at times, but you're reasonable, not the kind of idiot who would believe something like that... Mea Culpa. My apologies.

I've seen that crap expressed w/ true sincerity entirely too many times on this forum, unfortunately...

Republicans are evolving... from the party of bad ideas, to the party of no ideas, to the party of just say no, whatever it is...

If you're reasonable, you'll realize that the party of no is always the minority party.

 

[kage69]

Damn, and here I though the GOP was a bad joke during the Cheney years. For them to do this after years of pandering to post 9/11 sentiments is truly mind-boggling. Then again, King George declared Ground Zero perfectly safe, and if you're willing to play politics with the lives of the enlisted, what's a few hundred domestic emergency responders? of course, I'm sure the real story here is how un-American Dems are, naturally.



Sweet fuggin jeebus, where is Rudy Giuliani when we actually need him? Mr. 9/11 should be the first one out there lambasting these assh0les.

It's disgusting, as is the spin coming from the usual (and new, can't leave out the latest PJ) apologists.

 

[Craig234]

If you're reasonable, you'll realize that the party of no is always the minority party.

If you're reasonable, you'll recognize there are huge differences in degree on this.

And that they current Republicans are way on the extreme side of the spectrum.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

politicians are bad people? well i never!

Fixed.

 

[Atreus21]

If you're reasonable, you'll recognize there are huge differences in degree on this.

And that they current Republicans are way on the extreme side of the spectrum.

Negatory.

It's all politics.

 

[Craig234]

Negatory.

It's all politics.

Wrong, making you not a reasonable person in your degree of cynicism. All politicians according to you do absolutely zero for any good reason, it's all for 'politics'.

Why, then, pray tell for one of countless counters to that false view, has there never been an abuse of the filibuster using it at the rate it is now, historically far, far lower?

 

[Fern]

Republicans kill 9/11 first responder aid bill

First Reponders are county/city employees and they have fantastic HC plans etc. I don't understand why that isn't sufficient?

And they were gonna raise taxes to pay for the estimated $7.4 billion, but, as I understand it, only on domestic subsidiaries of foreign corporations. I'm not sure that's a good policy. Also:

But Republicans raised new objections over an offset in the bill that would place limits on how foreign-based companies can use tax treaties to shift income outside the United States.

Tax treaties OVERRIDE domestic laws passed by Congress. It's not clear to me how Congress can pass a domestic law overriding a treaty and expect it to actually work. Seems to me they'd end up in court and be forced to amend the treaties if they really wanted them changed.

If that site was so bad, where was OSHA etc?

I don't see anything stopping the state of NY from helping these people if they deem it necessary.

I also don't understand why the suspension rules were necessary. The 'normal rules' are good enough for all the other (important) bill, why not this one?

Fern

 

[csteggo]

Crib notes. Good clean patriotic bill. No unrelated amendments. Republicans vote no for unknown reason. Was it a democrat ploy. Perhaps. Easiest way for the republicans to avoid that ploy. Vote yes on a bill you agree with. Was the problem the fact that democrats didn't play into their game and that annoyed the republicans. Or was it the problem that if you start a precedent of passing legislation without all the unrelated amendments it might start a trend? Something here just doesn't make sense.

 

[JSt0rm]

If that site was so bad, where was OSHA etc?

hanging out with MMS?

 

[cubby1223]

First Reponders are county/city employees and they have fantastic HC plans etc. I don't understand why that isn't sufficient?

And they were gonna raise taxes to pay for the estimated $7.4 billion, but, as I understand it, only on domestic subsidiaries of foreign corporations. I'm not sure that's a good policy. Also:

Tax treaties OVERRIDE domestic laws passed by Congress. It's not clear to me how Congress can pass a domestic law overriding a treaty and expect it to actually work. Seems to me they'd end up in court and be forced to amend the treaties if they really wanted them changed.

If that site was so bad, where was OSHA etc?

I don't see anything stopping the state of NY from helping these people if they deem it necessary.

I also don't understand why the suspension rules were necessary. The 'normal rules' are good enough for all the other (important) bill, why not this one?

Fern

Stop being rational! This thread is all about showing off how much Republicans hate America!

 

[PeshakJang]

Tax rates, Einstein. The top earners are taxed at a lower rate but pay a larger share because they have an even larger share of total income.

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1#pt4

Look at effective tax rates from 1979-2001. 2001-present is also there, in a different document.

Effective tax rates for all individuals (quintiles) have gone down, with the lowest quintile at a negative rate, except for the highest quintile. The top 10%, 5%, and 1% have all seen their effective tax rates increase after some fluctuationsthroughout the years.

So your assertion that the rich have a lower effective tax rate is simply false. They are, on average, taxed more. The top quintile pays more than twice the effective rate than others.

 

[Rainsford]

Stop being rational! This thread is all about showing off how much Republicans hate America!

Indeed...and I'm not a huge fan of this topic in general, I think it's exactly the kind of partisan, gotcha bullshit we need less of.

But that's kind of the point. Because with all the defensiveness from the Republican side of the aisle, I can't help but wonder what the comments would look like if the parties were reversed...if the Democrats had voted against a "9/11 first responder aid bill". Because we all no that nobody on the right would EVER accuse Democrats of hating America for the silliest of reasons...right?

 

[werepossum]

Wrong, making you not a reasonable person in your degree of cynicism. All politicians according to you do absolutely zero for any good reason, it's all for 'politics'.

Why, then, pray tell for one of countless counters to that false view, has there never been an abuse of the filibuster using it at the rate it is now, historically far, far lower?

Easy - there's never been such a radical agenda, implemented by such dishonest politicians, who are so out of touch with the American people, who have had complete control of Congress and the White House and the Main Stream Media and who nearly retain total control over same. For instance, the Republicans have NEVER had such power as the Democrats enjoyed, even discounting the media, so the Democrats were free to hold their filibusters to the important issues such as civil rights and whether or not we have enough Robert Byrd Train Stations and Libraries in every bill.

 

[Rainsford]

Easy - there's never been such a radical agenda, implemented by such dishonest politicians, who are so out of touch with the American people, who have had complete control of Congress and the White House and the Main Stream Media and who nearly retain total control over same. For instance, the Republicans have NEVER had such power as the Democrats enjoyed, even discounting the media, so the Democrats were free to hold their filibusters to the important issues such as civil rights and whether or not we have enough Robert Byrd Train Stations and Libraries in every bill.

Hey, disagree with the Obama administration and congress all you like...but can you please stop claiming to speak for "the American people"? First of all, "the American people" elected Obama, and a Democratic congress...nobody seized power in a coup...so simmer down. Secondly, as a member of the American public, I don't recall giving you permission to speak for me.

So how about you claim your opinion as your own, and stop trying to back it up by claiming that everyone agrees with you?

 

[werepossum]

Hey, disagree with the Obama administration and congress all you like...but can you please stop claiming to speak for "the American people"? First of all, "the American people" elected Obama, and a Democratic congress...nobody seized power in a coup...so simmer down. Secondly, as a member of the American public, I don't recall giving you permission to speak for me.

So how about you claim your opinion as your own, and stop trying to back it up by claiming that everyone agrees with you?

Where did I claim to speak for the American people? I am simply recognizing that both Obama and the Democrat Congress have historically low approvals FROM THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, by any measurable standard other than the Democrat Underground or similar moonbat colonies. My opinion was my own in November '08, and merely happens to coincide with the majority today. Yes, Obama was elected and the Democrats were elected to huge majorities; people screw up, we didn't think it could get worse than under Bush. But getting elected in '08 does not automatically make you in touch with the American people in 2010, bucko. And it's not like there was much choice anyway; even the Libertarians sucked in 2008.

For the record:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Obama - 45.3% approval, 49.5% disapproval
Congress - 21.2% approval, 72.2% disapproval

YOU may be as happy as a Marxist in the killing fields, but for most of the American people the bloom is long gone from the rose.

 

[JSt0rm]

Where did I claim to speak for the American people? I am simply recognizing that both Obama and the Democrat Congress have historically low approvals FROM THE AMERICAN PUBLIC,

but but booosh approval rating was like 16%

I'll take that 45% olololol