Republicans kill 9/11 first responder aid bill

[PokerGuy]

It isn't about "laying blame on the republicans as a bloc." It isn't about who is to blame if a piece of good legislation goes down.

That might be according to you, but the democrats, including the one throwing a hissy fit, are blaming the republicans. Logic fail, as would be expected from that party.

Dems are, rather, charging the republicans with uniformally voting against legislation for purely political reasons.

They did not uniformly vote against anything - 12 of them voted the other way. Fail.

What you're doing is making excuses for them, acting as if their votes don't matter when in fact they do.

I've made no excuses for anything. I've pointed out that the democrats blaming the republicans is logically stupid because they have the majority and could have passed the bill without their vote.

 

[JSt0rm]

They did not uniformly vote against anything - 12 of them voted the other way. Fail.

I personally didnt realize that 12 of them voted FOR it. Regardless, I still think the republicans are little fucking bitches.

 

[heyheybooboo]

.... I've pointed out that the democrats blaming the republicans is logically stupid because they have the majority and could have passed the bill without their vote.

Sorry. It does not work like that in the real world.

But feel free to put the GOP Party first above all else, and continue to vote in jack-booted lock-step.




--

 

[daishi5]

It isn't about "laying blame on the republicans as a bloc." It isn't about who is to blame if a piece of good legislation goes down. That's easy to determine anyway - when good legilsation goes down, everyone who voted "no" is to blame. In a given case, that pool of blameworthy people may or may not consist largely of republicans.

Dems are, rather, charging the republicans with uniformally voting against legislation for purely political reasons. In other words, they GOP sees an opporunity - that enough democrats might vote no on a piece of legislation, that if they vote "no" as a bloc the legislation goes down, and this in turn is a political advantage to the GOP for elections because the dems are perceived as ineffectual. They are charged with doing this regardless of the merits of the legislation. That is a very serious charge and one which, if true, is a totally legit charge to make.

Which is why I bring up accountability - any individual who votes according to politics rather than the merits of legislation is a poor legislator. What you're doing is making excuses for them, acting as if their votes don't matter when in fact they do.

- wolf

Unless I missed something, the democrats put this bill on the table as they did betting the republicans would keep voting no and the republicans just kept doing what they were doing.

The only real comparison I can bring up is driving. The republicans are driving while drinking and texting, basically being horrible drivers. The democrats pushed a small child out in front of them knowing the republicans would kill it, because no one seems to care about just how badly they are behaving until something precious is harmed by it.

The democrats are responsible for the death of this bill, because (again, unless I am missing something) they set it up to fail, and they knew what would happen. The republicans are guilty of abdicating their responsibility in favor of political games.

 

[JSt0rm]

thats how they are... good little lemmings, I mean soldiers, marching off the cliff, I mean to victory.

 

[OrByte]

That might be according to you, but the democrats, including the one throwing a hissy fit, are blaming the republicans. Logic fail, as would be expected from that party.



They did not uniformly vote against anything - 12 of them voted the other way. Fail.



I've made no excuses for anything. I've pointed out that the democrats blaming the republicans is logically stupid because they have the majority and could have passed the bill without their vote.

your logic seems to indicate there is no point in having a majority/minority party system.

We should just hold gladiator contests in the colosseum. Every 2 years pit one democrat against one republican in the battle to the death. Winner gets to set legislation!

Never mind the merits of legislation.

 

[woolfe9999]

Unless I missed something, the democrats put this bill on the table as they did betting the republicans would keep voting no and the republicans just kept doing what they were doing.

The only real comparison I can bring up is driving. The republicans are driving while drinking and texting, basically being horrible drivers. The democrats pushed a small child out in front of them knowing the republicans would kill it, because no one seems to care about just how badly they are behaving until something precious is harmed by it.

The democrats are responsible for the death of this bill, because (again, unless I am missing something) they set it up to fail, and they knew what would happen. The republicans are guilty of abdicating their responsibility in favor of political games.

Your last two sentences are key here - you seem to understand that culpability or failure of the dems is one issue, and culpability and/or failure of the repubs, another. Pokerguy thinks that a bill not passing is a dem failing, and therefore the repubs are not to be criticized for how they vote.

With regard to your analysis of the motive behind this bill, assuming you are correct, the repubs could have foiled the dems evil plot by not behaving in the way that the dems predicted they would. They could actually have voted to pass the bill, but they chose not to.

- wolf

 

[BoberFett]

Nobody has answered my question.

Why was this done as a suspension vote?

 

[sandorski]

I suppose the only solution to these constant standoffs is to simply have 2 Voters, One Dem, One Rep(as if required) and when a Bill is Voted on, whatever these 2 decide, each of their Votes count for all Dems/Reps. So simple, what could possibly go wrong in this scenario? :hmm:

 

[OrByte]

Nobody has answered my question.

Why was this done as a suspension vote?

I like your theory...to setup the Republicans.

and they happily obliged the Democrats by voting no.

So now, after almost a decade, we are back to politizing one of Americas greatest historical tragedies...

Hmmmmm right before an election season too..... HHmmmmmmmmm

 

[woolfe9999]

Nobody has answered my question.

Why was this done as a suspension vote?

Possibly because the dems believed that the repubs would pose an infinite array of amendments to derail the process so that it would never come to a vote?

- wolf

 

[Brainonska511]

Nobody has answered my question.

Why was this done as a suspension vote?

I seem to remember one article mentioning that it would prevent a poison-pill amendment from being added on.

 

[Throckmorton]

Possibly because the dems believed that the repubs would pose an infinite array of amendments to derail the process so that it would never come to a vote?

- wolf

Which is exactly what Republicans wanted to do.

 

[BoberFett]

So in order to avoid being blocked by the Republicans, it was put forth as a suspension bill only to get... blocked by Republicans?

Man, those Democrats are sharp. Maybe if they spend as much time fixing the system that allows this kind of chicanery as they did avoiding taxes, we might get somewhere.

 

[JSt0rm]

So in order to avoid being blocked by the Republicans, it was put forth as a suspension bill only to get... blocked by Republicans?

Man, those Democrats are sharp. Maybe if they spend as much time fixing the system that allows this kind of chicanery as they did avoiding taxes, we might get somewhere.

Better to block it like this then to let the pugs put some bullshit in the bill then you get more dems voting no. Right now its a pr nightmare for the pugs.

 

[dali71]

The other rightwing spin will be that Democrats made it too hard to pass by bringing it up as a suspension bill that required 2/3 majority to prevent poison pill amendments... IE: "Well don't blame us, they could have passed this without us if they didn't make it impossible to pass without us!!"

As Bober posted earlier, according to internal rules of both parties suspension bills are not to cost more than $100 million. Since the suspension bill the Democrats proposed weighs in at $3.2 billion, it was clearly in violation of the rules. No rightwing spin involved, just facts.

 

[OrByte]

So in order to avoid being blocked by the Republicans, it was put forth as a suspension bill only to get... blocked by Republicans?

Man, those Democrats are sharp. Maybe if they spend as much time fixing the system that allows this kind of chicanery as they did avoiding taxes, we might get somewhere.

I think they got somewhere....

just saw the vid. I just saw a Democrat take the pants off the republicans and at the same time gloat about all the "good" Democrats have done during the first 100 hours

All under the Patriotism established under the 9/11 banner.

Damn...that was quite a show. Free to the DNC AND it will get mass coverage because of the 9/11 angle. And it is a simple statement to make....

Republicans voted "NO"

GG Dems. Politics at it's finest!

edit: just noticed I watched an older vid of the same congressman ripping Rupublicans an earlier A-hole...this guy should get his own radio show!

 

[BoberFett]

Politics at it's worst!

Fixed

It's no wonder this country can't move ahead. Too many assholes on both sides.

 

[OrByte]

Fixed

It's no wonder this country can't move ahead. Too many assholes on both sides.

mehhhh..such is your perspective, I think its mighty fine politics....for politics sake.

If the tables were turned....

 

[BoberFett]

If the tables were turned....

They'd still all be assholes. There's a reason I don't vote for either major party if I can avoid it. Call it a wasted vote, a protest vote, whatever you want. In my opinion, the only wasted vote is one for the status quo.

 

[OrByte]

They'd still all be assholes...

can't disagree there!

 

[marincounty]

Remember Republicans calling for laws to be voted on with an up and down vote. So Democrats gave them a chance for an up and down vote, and the Republicans blinked.
This is same kind of garbage political stunt that the Republican congress would do, make the Democrats vote on a tough issue so that their vote can be used against them in an election. Republicans are so opposed to the Democrats winning anything, even passing a decent bill, that they are willing to screw deserving Americans. I hope Democrats use this to bludgeon Republicans in the next election.

 

[OutHouse]

just noticed I watched an older vid of the same congressman ripping Rupublicans an earlier A-hole...this guy should get his own radio show!

wouldnt last a day. he is a typical loudmouth new-yorker. I had a co-worker who was just like him and god damn it was a great day when he quit.

 

[Brainonska511]

As Bober posted earlier, according to internal rules of both parties suspension bills are not to cost more than $100 million. Since the suspension bill the Democrats proposed weighs in at $3.2 billion, it was clearly in violation of the rules. No rightwing spin involved, just facts.

But they were going to close a tax loophole to pay for it, so was it really going to cost over $100 million?

 

[woolfe9999]

So in order to avoid being blocked by the Republicans, it was put forth as a suspension bill only to get... blocked by Republicans?

Man, those Democrats are sharp. Maybe if they spend as much time fixing the system that allows this kind of chicanery as they did avoiding taxes, we might get somewhere.

What do you mean "fix the system?"

This issue is really pretty simple actually: what was it about this bill, substantively, that caused the vast majority of republicans to vote against it?

All the talk about procedure is a distraction from the real issue.

- wolf