Republicans kill 9/11 first responder aid bill

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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
listen to these fools wax on

"I'm a 40 year old retired cop from the First Pct. in lower manhattan. I was there the morning of 9/11 and worked over 2,100 hours in the pit the months that followed. My breathing ailments are too long to get into and I understand I will be heavily medicated for whatever time I have left. I'm writing this and urging passage of this bill for my kids sake. (Ages 8 & 6)What's done is done but at least give me the peace of mind of knowing they will be taken care of. Ret. PO Dave Smith"

and

"I am one of the forgotten rescue workers who spent weeks and months in the "pit". I do not seek glory or a pat on the back for what I did. I live with the choices I made. I wouldn't change a thing except I hate to see my family watch me deteriorate. I can't do things I used to, I have no energy, I can't breathe, I can't sleep. I am waiting for the inevitable and it sucks. I never smoked and now I am on all kinds of respiratory meds and a machine at night. Please pass this bill, I am not the only one in this position. Passage will help the people and families of those who dedicated their time and for some, their lives, to help others in need. God Bless America!"
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
67
91
How about everytime a fireman or police officer dies, we give the family money.

Fuck, let's just give everyone money.

Why not, we'll just print more, amiright?

I'd make a great US politician.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Do you get your talking points from Pokerface??

That's totally ridiculous. The bill was suspended to prevent pork and poison pill ammendments, which is what Republicans always complain about (this bill is too many pages wahhh). Then when this bill, which seems to have no big problems, was put to vote, Republicans almost unanimously voted against it because it opposes their ideology. You can't pin the blame on the few conservative Democrats who voted against it, while excusing the Republicans.

Interesting. The Democrats certainly didn't care about pork on any of their other bills.
 

Hyraxxx

Member
Oct 4, 2008
57
0
0
listen to these fools wax on

"I'm a 40 year old retired cop from the First Pct. in lower manhattan. I was there the morning of 9/11 and worked over 2,100 hours in the pit the months that followed. My breathing ailments are too long to get into and I understand I will be heavily medicated for whatever time I have left. I'm writing this and urging passage of this bill for my kids sake. (Ages 8 & 6)What's done is done but at least give me the peace of mind of knowing they will be taken care of. Ret. PO Dave Smith"

and

"I am one of the forgotten rescue workers who spent weeks and months in the "pit". I do not seek glory or a pat on the back for what I did. I live with the choices I made. I wouldn't change a thing except I hate to see my family watch me deteriorate. I can't do things I used to, I have no energy, I can't breathe, I can't sleep. I am waiting for the inevitable and it sucks. I never smoked and now I am on all kinds of respiratory meds and a machine at night. Please pass this bill, I am not the only one in this position. Passage will help the people and families of those who dedicated their time and for some, their lives, to help others in need. God Bless America!"

Since you were a cop at the time, can this be covered under workman's comp? You were injured in the line of duty. I hope you get compensated for your trouble.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
My understanding is that Democrats have a majority, so they can get it passed without Republicans.

Listen carefully. A party having a certain number of people does not guarantee every member votes a certain way, at least not with the Democrats.

It's totally irrelevant if Democrats have a certain number of people, if not enough of those people are voting a certain way.

In that case, both the Democrats not voting that way, and the Republicans not voting that way, are each a cause of the vote not passing. Get it? If not, say what you don't get.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Since you were a cop at the time, can this be covered under workman's comp? You were injured in the line of duty. I hope you get compensated for your trouble.

Sorry that wasnt me. I was quoting the bills comments section.
 

Hyraxxx

Member
Oct 4, 2008
57
0
0
Listen carefully. A party having a certain number of people does not guarantee every member votes a certain way, at least not with the Democrats.

It's totally irrelevant if Democrats have a certain number of people, if not enough of those people are voting a certain way.

In that case, both the Democrats not voting that way, and the Republicans not voting that way, are each a cause of the vote not passing. Get it? If not, say what you don't get.

I understand. I hate people less who don't vote party lines.

I would have never approved of the Bill the amendments were attached to in the first place.

Very few bills promote freedom. Most strip it away little by little.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
THIS is what will come back to bite republicans in 2012. They think people are not paying attention. They think people can not figure this out. Just as Nixon knew the great silent majority was poised to act, so are they again poised to act against republicans come the next cycle.
Forget about bogus polls or faux news wet dreams. The great silent majority once again are paying close attention. Democrats won the Whitehouse for a reason in 2008, and the house/senate. 2012 will bring closure to republican games. The party of "no" will “no longer” have a say. Their numbers dwindled down to the few. Allowing democrats to finish repairing America from 8 years of destruction under that “other” president. Gosh.. his name escapes me at the moment.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
If they're first responders, then they are likely policemen, firemen, etc. - all municipal employees. Why are the city and state not taking care of them and forcing the federal government to do so? It's the democratic mantra, happily give benefits to those less fortunate, so long as it's someone else's money being used.


I thought Bin Laden attacked America, not just NYC? No?



Good, then no Republican outside of NYC can ever fucking talk about 9/11 again.

Don't praise them as heroes in your speeches and fundraisers.
Don't marvel at their sacrifice as they rushed in the burning buildings
Don't talk about how they all swarmed downtown to dig in the burning toxic wreckage to save people they've never met

Don't wonder at their selflessness as you walk up and cast your no vote to stab them in the back, all 147 of the GOP, one at a time, knowing all well it would fail and doing nothing to stop it.

Shameless self-serving backstabbing cowards. Fuck that little band Dem turncoats also, spineless lumps of a bureaucrat
 
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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
So... An act of war occurs and as a result of that act of war folks responded in their line of duty to the needs of the civilians injured and killed... During this event the Administration indicated that the air was ok to breathe and the environment was fine to work in otherwise. The conditions at the site proved themselves to be unfit to breathe and work in. The 'responders' become sick as a result of their presence at the site.
Now some say they chose to be there and thems the breaks... The politians say no to their medical care... but yet say yes to trillions used to bribe, destroy, or rebuild the Iraqi and Afghanistani peoples and their infrastructure.

Yup... makes sense to me... years ago it was... "next time you need a cop call a hippy".
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
So... An act of war occurs and as a result of that act of war folks responded in their line of duty to the needs of the civilians injured and killed... During this event the Administration indicated that the air was ok to breathe and the environment was fine to work in otherwise. The conditions at the site proved themselves to be unfit to breathe and work in. The 'responders' become sick as a result of their presence at the site.
Now some say they chose to be there and thems the breaks... The politians say no to their medical care... but yet say yes to trillions used to bribe, destroy, or rebuild the Iraqi and Afghanistani peoples and their infrastructure.

Yup... makes sense to me... years ago it was... "next time you need a cop call a hippy".

that about sums it up. lol
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Huh?

I hate to break it to you but the democrats have a majority in the house and can pass whatever they want.

I find it laughable that the Democrats want to suspend the rules on legislation to squelch the amendment process and debate and then call out the GOP.

This is a transparent attempt by the Democrats to try and paint the GOP in poor light. It will not work.

You still haven't answered the question yet: why did the GOP vote against this bill? It's a simple and straight forward question. But you're not going to answer it, are you?

- wolf
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Some Members may be concerned about several issues:


  1. H.R. 847 creates a new entitlement program.
  2. H.R. 847 is paid for with a tax increase on companies located in the United States that are employing American workers.
  3. H.R. 847 is not means tested. An amendment to preclude millionaires from accessing the new health entitlement created by Title I was defeated during the markup in Energy and Commerce Committee.


Wait... What? So the Democrats... who are so concerned about the costs of health care, and are so concerned about rich people getting tax breaks at the expense of the working class... removed a provision limiting the ability of rich people to benefit from this program?

  1. NIOSH does not have expertise in administering a health care payment program. The current program is a block-grant program, and under H.R. 847, NIOSH will negotiate contracts and approve treatment protocols.
  2. H.R. 847 increases hospital reimbursement rates to 140 percent of Medicare reimbursement rates on average for New York City hospitals while ObamaCare cuts $150 billion in payments to hospitals around the country.
  3. H.R. 847 does not reward hospitals and providers for improving health care. They will be reimbursed based on each service they perform, which will encourage overutilization and increase health care spending.
  4. Currently, several programs receive federal funding for medical monitoring and treatment programs. Those programs include: Fire Department of New York WTC Medical Monitoring Program, New York/New Jersey WTC Consortium, WTC Health Registry, WTC Federal Responder Screening Program, Project COPE, and POPPA (Police Organization Providing Peer Assistance) program.
  5. Limited oversight fails to ensure taxpayer funds are spent properly and effectively. Government health care programs, such as Medicare, have a significant amount of fraud.
  6. H.R. 847 gives too much discretion in the unreviewable authority of the Special Master.

So basically, this new bill gives more money to people who are unqualified to handle it, with little oversight, and broad authority to expand the program? I thought the Democrats were all about reforming health care, and reducing costs? Throwing a pile of billions and billions of dollars at healthcare providers doesn't seem like the best way to control costs.

  1. H.R. 847 permits claimants to seek compensation through the VCF even if they have settled their lawsuits against the $1 billion taxpayer-funded World Trade Center Captive Insurance Company.
  2. H.R. 847 includes protections for trial lawyers, including the ability to receive taxpayer-funded compensation for work not directly related to recovery from the VCF. In addition, attorneys who have been compensation under another settlement will have access to settlement funds under the reopened VCF.
  3. 12. H.R. 847 extends the geographic scope of the original September 11 Fund and gives the Special Master discretion to extend it even farther.
  4. H.R. 847 caps the VCF at $8.4 billion, which is an invitation and a guarantee to spend $8.4 billion.

So this bill isn't really about helping anybody, is it? Pay the people we already paid, and then give some money to the trial lawyers.

I wonder if John Kerry had any input on this bill...

Just another case of, "Here's a shitty bill, but we'll give it a good title so even if you vote no, people will think you hate America."

Sounds like the Republicans did the right thing, and the Democrats are using 9/11 to try and make them look evil. I recall 8 years of the opposite, with a promise of change somewhere toward the end.

Bravo Democrats... Keep on Changin'
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,434
10,328
136
Possibly because the dems believed that the repubs would pose an infinite array of amendments to derail the process so that it would never come to a vote?

- wolf

Ding! Ding!

How many times have the Dems allowed amendments only to still have the Repugs vote no. Look at what the Sentate did with the bill to aid Businesses to get loans that was supported by the Chamber of Commerce, and large Republican donors for CS! Their only answer to anything is lets go back to they way things were when Bush was in charge! How that work out?

The Repugs literally blocked a bill because they know it would help create jobs. They want nothing but fail so they can point and say what failure the Dems are and get back in power.
 
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PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
The Repugs literally blocked a bill because they know it would help create jobs. They want nothing but fail so they can point and say what failure the Dems are and get back in power.

So why did those Democrats vote no? Do they want to point at themselves and tell America what a failure they are?

Read the bill.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,434
10,328
136
So why did those Democrats vote no? Do they want to point at themselves and tell America what a failure they are?

Read the bill.

Let me guess. Probably because they are running in a district where they won in a normally republican district or the polls in the district are indicating that the republican candidate may win and they are trying to out-republican the republican they are running against?

Piss poor stategy in my book but that's what's called politics.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,432
6,090
126
Q&A on H.R. 847, the 9/11 Health and Compensation Act
Thousands of first responders and others exposed to the toxins of Ground Zero are now sick and
in need of treatment and compensation. The 9/11 Health and Compensation Act would provide
long-term, comprehensive health care and compensation for those in need.
Q: Who are we talking about?
A. New York firefighters, police officers and EMTs, construction workers, clean-up workers,
volunteers from across the country, federal and state employees, police and firefighters from
other states and jurisdictions, U.S. military personnel, residents, area workers, and school
children, among others.
Q: What illnesses do they have?
A. Illnesses include respiratory and gastrointestinal system conditions such as asthma, interstitial
lung disease, chronic cough, and gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), and mental health
conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Q: How many are sick?
A: Nearly 13,000 responders and more than 4,500 survivors are currently sick and receiving
treatment. Over 53,000 responders are currently in medical monitoring. 71,000 individuals are
enrolled in the WTC Health Registry, indicating that they were exposed to toxins.
Q: Where are they from?
A: Although most of these people live in the New York/New Jersey area, at least 10,000 people
came from around the country to help in the aftermath of the attacks. They hail from every state
in the Union and nearly every congressional district. Many are sick and others are very
concerned about their health.
Q. Why is it important to provide care through Centers of Excellence?
A. Experts have testified to Congress that up to 40 percent of WTC Responders who went to see
only their family doctor, but later came to a Center of Excellence, were being misdiagnosed and
given the wrong treatment for the illnesses caused by the unique exposures associated with the
World Trade Center site.
Q. Why does the bill create a new entitlement?
A. We know there are thousands of people that are now sick and will need care for years to
come. We must provide stable support for ongoing treatment, just as we do for other federal
health care programs.
Q. What about people’s private health insurance?
A. People’s private health insurance is the first payor if the illness is not work-related. Private
insurance will not pay for work-related illnesses.
Q. What about workers’ compensation?
A. When a workers’ compensation claim has been approved, workers’ compensation will pay
for it, because workers’ compensation is the first payor under the bill. However, since workers’
2
compensation benefits often take a long time to be approved, the government can cover the
expenses and then get reimbursed by workers’ compensation.
Q. What about the responsibility and contribution of New York City?
A. New York City is required to pay a 10% matching share of the total cost of the entire health
program.
Q. How can we be sure that only those who are legitimately sick receive treatment?
A. There are many checks and balances in determining eligibility for treatment. First, the
responder must be certified for and receiving monitoring. Once a responder is in monitoring, the
patient can receive treatment only if 1) the condition is on the list of Identified WTC-related
conditions in the bill and 2) the physician determines that ‘exposure to airborne toxins, any other
hazard, or any other adverse condition resulting from the attacks is substantially likely to be a
significant factor in aggravating, contributing to, or causing the illness’ in that patient. The
physician’s determination must be evaluated and characterized through the use of appropriate
questionnaires and clinical protocols approved by the NIOSH Director. Last, a federal
employee designated by the program administrator shall review the determination and provide
certification for treatment if appropriate.
Q. Who would be served in the Survivor Program?
A. The Survivor Program serves individuals who live, work, or go to school within a geographic
area established under the bill. The area includes areas of Manhattan that are south of Houston
Street and the area in Brooklyn within a 1.5 mile radius of the World Trade Center site.
Q. Why should the federal government pay for survivors?
A. Survivors are people who were caught in the crossfire of an attack on our nation. The vast
majority of them were living their lives, going to work, or going to school, just like we all do.
They are sick from exposures from the exact same toxins that the responders breathed in.
In the aftermath of the attacks, it was the federal government who told them the air was safe to
breathe and encouraged them to go back home, to work, and to open up Wall Street to stabilize
the economy. The government misled them, and they are no less deserving than the Responders.
Q. What is the reimbursement rate for health care services?
A. The reimbursement rate for health care services is the rate provided for under the Federal
Worker’s Compensation Act. This is the same reimbursement rate that providers receive for
treating work-related injuries and illnesses for federal employees, including members of
Congress. The same rate is used for all federal compensation programs including the Energy
Workers’ Compensation Program, Black-Lung, and the Longshore and Harbor Workers’
Compensation Act.
Q. Why is the program under NIOSH?
A. NIOSH administers the WTC Health program that is already underway. They have the
ability and expertise to continue and expand the program under the bill. They routinely
administer monitoring programs and will have the ability to contract out other duties with which
they have less experience.
3
Q. What was the original September 11 Victim Compensation Fund (VCF)?
A. In the immediate aftermath of the September 11th terrorist attacks the Congress created the
Victims Compensation Fund (VCF) to provide compensation for victims of 9/11. This fund
provided aid to the families of 9/11 victims and to individuals who suffered personal injury.
Among other things, aid from the fund pays for medical expenses and lost wages. In return for
accepting these funds, recipients relinquished rights to any future litigation. The fund had a
deadline for applicants of December 22, 2003.
Q. Why does it need to be reopened?
A. Many of the disease we now see in WTC responders did not develop until after the
application deadline for the VCF had passed. These individuals should not be denied
compensation just because they got sick after the deadline.
Q: What about the WTC construction contractors who worked to clear debris?
A. They are facing lawsuits by some 10,000 people who are sick because of Ground Zero toxins.
The federal government had told them that their liability would be taken care of. Now they face
great financial loss simply because they were there in the country’s time of need.
Q. How does the bill provide an alternative to the current litigation system?
A. Under the bill, just as under the original VCF, an individual can apply to the VCF or sue, but
cannot do both. If one applies to the VCF, they give up their right to sue.
Q. What limits are there to size and growth of the programs?
A. Funding for the bill is capped in several ways: The healthcare spending is capped by the total
dollars available, the number of patients who can get medical monitoring or treatment for their
World Trade Center (WTC)-related injuries, and the total number of years the health program is
administered. The Victim Compensation Fund also is capped by the total dollars available and
the number of years the Fund operates.
Q. How much funding does this require?
A. The cost of the bill is $7.4 billion over 10 years. The bill is PAY-GO compliant and will not
add to the deficit. It is Capped mandatory funding that is offset completely.
Q. How will the bill be paid for?
The $7.4 billion is offset completely by closing a loophole for companies incorporated in nontreaty
foreign countries who do business in the U.S. Known as “treaty shopping,” this occurs
where a parent firm headquartered abroad routes its U.S.-source income through structures in
which a U.S. subsidiary of the foreign multinational corporation makes a deductible payment to a
country that is signatory to a tax-reducing treaty with the U.S. before ultimately sending these
earnings to the tax haven country where the parent firm is located. The provision does not hurt
U.S. companies.
Prepared by the Office of Congresswoman Carolyn B. Maloney
Updated July 27, 2010
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Definitely something going on here. The Republicans have zero power in the House and can pass no "poison pill" amendments, only amendments with which a bipartisan majority of Representatives agree. Only the Democrats can pass amendments or bills with no opposition support.

My guess is this is a brilliant if cynical plan to move the election dialogue from the Democrats' record (from which most Democrat politicians are now fleeing at speeds that endanger the public) and onto a ginned up charge of a lack of patriotism and compassion. Considering that the Dems' most powerful constituency is the main stream media, they'll probably get some traction with this.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
From seeing a bit more on this, here's what it sounds like is going on.

Everyone knows this is basically a good bill (both parties, but probably not some fringe Republicans). In the normal process, the Republicans get to put up all kinds of amendments to the bill which may not have anything to do with the issue of medical care for 9/11 first responders.

Reportedly, the Republican plan was to put up an amendment or amendments about illegal immigration designed to give them political points against Democrats before the election.

The Democrats didn't care to let that happen, and blocked Republicans from amendments with a process that requires a 2/3 vote, putting Republicans on the spot of either voting for the bill and giving up their illegal immigrant stunt, or voting against a bill that will make them look bad for opposing. They picked the latter (except reportedly ten who voted yes).

Naturally, Republicans making that choice want to minimize the damage, so they look for justification for their vote - flaws in the bill, etc.

There are reports that both parties, as bad as it is to have the political games played so far, are expected to get it passed.

IMO, the Republican strategy seems to be to try to keep the Democrats from having almost anything passed they can use in the campaign, whatever the harm.

It's why also last week the Republicans blocked a bill to help small business and give tax cuts. That would sound good in the Democrats' campaigns.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
From seeing a bit more on this, here's what it sounds like is going on.

Everyone knows this is basically a good bill (both parties, but probably not some fringe Republicans). In the normal process, the Republicans get to put up all kinds of amendments to the bill which may not have anything to do with the issue of medical care for 9/11 first responders.

Reportedly, the Republican plan was to put up an amendment or amendments about illegal immigration designed to give them political points against Democrats before the election.

The Democrats didn't care to let that happen, and blocked Republicans from amendments with a process that requires a 2/3 vote, putting Republicans on the spot of either voting for the bill and giving up their illegal immigrant stunt, or voting against a bill that will make them look bad for opposing. They picked the latter (except reportedly ten who voted yes).

Naturally, Republicans making that choice want to minimize the damage, so they look for justification for their vote - flaws in the bill, etc.

There are reports that both parties, as bad as it is to have the political games played so far, are expected to get it passed.

IMO, the Republican strategy seems to be to try to keep the Democrats from having almost anything passed they can use in the campaign, whatever the harm.

It's why also last week the Republicans blocked a bill to help small business and give tax cuts. That would sound good in the Democrats' campaigns.

So basically you are admitting that the Democrats are shutting the Republicans out of the drafting process.

Next week you'll be in here saying, "The Republicans can't offer any alternatives or other ideas", while the Dems continue to shout "Obstructionism!".

Petty politics the Dems are playing. They want to pass their agenda, opposing opinions be damned. If you say no, you hate America.

What were you whining about for the last 8 years?