"If idNut wants to tap these untoched resources, there are plenty of AP courses or accelerated courses he can get put into."
Please spare me. The so-called AP classes are like an accident. It is what should be considered standard courses for all students. I don't call that intellectually stimulating. Why schools don't have it as the standard system is beyond me. Perhaps that explains why American students do poorly when competing against other nationalities.
I am and was self-taught. I could wait till last minute to study something and pass the test. I knew though that I had to do the homeworks and study each day since the teachers gave so much weight to quizzes and homeworks. I did so because I knew how much people relied on the letters to tell who was intelligent and who was not. But if I hadn't studied for a course, then it would reflect in the everyday quizzes. According to your reasoning, that would make me automatically a dumb person rather than someone who was intelligent but had not applied the intelligence to the contents of that subject.
Please spare me. The so-called AP classes are like an accident. It is what should be considered standard courses for all students. I don't call that intellectually stimulating. Why schools don't have it as the standard system is beyond me. Perhaps that explains why American students do poorly when competing against other nationalities.
I am and was self-taught. I could wait till last minute to study something and pass the test. I knew though that I had to do the homeworks and study each day since the teachers gave so much weight to quizzes and homeworks. I did so because I knew how much people relied on the letters to tell who was intelligent and who was not. But if I hadn't studied for a course, then it would reflect in the everyday quizzes. According to your reasoning, that would make me automatically a dumb person rather than someone who was intelligent but had not applied the intelligence to the contents of that subject.
The reason why we don't do this is because of people like idNut. If he were taking an AP course, he'd probably score in the low teens. If he were studying in any other nation, he'd be a trench digger by now.
wow... High School was a joke, i didnt care and just winged it and my outcome wasnt as bad as yours, manage to get Cs with putting in 0% effort.
/me strugs now that im in college i still have the same mindset... sighhhhh
2.7GPA ARRRG :-( :-( I should start studying and paying attention in class. BLAH
/me strugs now that im in college i still have the same mindset... sighhhhh
2.7GPA ARRRG :-( :-( I should start studying and paying attention in class. BLAH
I seriously doubt that is the reason the avergae American student does poorly, but that is another topic altogether. I don't think it's fair to fault the teachers for not being able to "stimulate" an obviously lazy individual. The could provide more advanced work specifically for idNut, but I doubt that will cure his attitude problem.
I know plenty of people that appear "dumb" to the average person, but are in essence, very bright. But guess what, businesses and everyone else in the real world still call these people dumb. It does not matter that your friends know your smart, or that you could've done better on a quiz or test IF you had applied yourself. Thats not what people see these days. If he wants to be successful in the real world, the probability increases exponentially of him being successful if he winds up getting into a better college and getting good grades, all because of those little letters and numbers we like to call grades.
All throughout HS so far, I've rarely studied for a quiz or test. There were just certain topics that could I could excel at regardless of whether I studied or not. But just like you and I realized, there is a NEED to study on certain occasions. If I'm unsure of my capabilites regarding a particular test or quiz, I study, plain and simple. If I know I can handle it, I browse the AT forums
And as with AP-Classes, I'm not talking about taking each and every single class being an AP for him. I'm talking about taking an AP class in a field in which he finds interesting. Obviously an AP class is going to open him up to much more then your normal run-of-the-mill class.
And what about acknowledging that fact of the multitude of competitions he could compete in? I'm sorry, but if the competitions out there based on research projects and assignments are not challenging enough for him, he isn't from this planet. For example, the Intel competition on Long Island.
Here's one example: Albert Einstein. And remember he flunked his math class.
Excerpts: Q: Hmm, interesting. Do you remember much about your early years in school?
A: I know that many people believe that I wasn?t a good student when I was a child. That?s not true. I was a good student, but I hated school. The schools I attended were rigidly disciplined and under the harsh and obsolete regimentation of 19th-century German education, which relied on mindless drilling and Tatzen, knuckle-raps with a cane. I admit I didn?t work as hard as I could have in school, but I loved to learn. I mostly self-taught myself through books and my Uncle Jakob, who was an engineer. I simply don?t respond well to the trappings of convention and have a healthy dislike for authority.
Q: How important was your self-schooling?
A: It was very important. I read every book that interested me and taught myself everything that I was interested in: literature, philosophy, mathematics, anything. From the age of twelve to sixteen I taught myself differential and integral calculus.
There are a lot more in the philosophy arena. And these philosophers were mathematicians, scientists and studied astronomy. I could go naming them one by one, but why do that? What they had in common is correspondence to check each others' works. There are also a lot in the literature field. I don't think that institutions can make geniuses or intellectuals. What the institutions do is discover the intellectuals and turn the average Joe into someone of vast knowledge [of discoveries] able to apply his knowledge to the discoveries of the intellectuals.
Excerpts: Q: Hmm, interesting. Do you remember much about your early years in school?
A: I know that many people believe that I wasn?t a good student when I was a child. That?s not true. I was a good student, but I hated school. The schools I attended were rigidly disciplined and under the harsh and obsolete regimentation of 19th-century German education, which relied on mindless drilling and Tatzen, knuckle-raps with a cane. I admit I didn?t work as hard as I could have in school, but I loved to learn. I mostly self-taught myself through books and my Uncle Jakob, who was an engineer. I simply don?t respond well to the trappings of convention and have a healthy dislike for authority.
Q: How important was your self-schooling?
A: It was very important. I read every book that interested me and taught myself everything that I was interested in: literature, philosophy, mathematics, anything. From the age of twelve to sixteen I taught myself differential and integral calculus.
There are a lot more in the philosophy arena. And these philosophers were mathematicians, scientists and studied astronomy. I could go naming them one by one, but why do that? What they had in common is correspondence to check each others' works. There are also a lot in the literature field. I don't think that institutions can make geniuses or intellectuals. What the institutions do is discover the intellectuals and turn the average Joe into someone of vast knowledge [of discoveries] able to apply his knowledge to the discoveries of the intellectuals.
I agree with you whole-heartedly that some of the great minds of the common era and past ages have been self-taught. But how many of those individuals are there? They are an extreme rarity, and to treat ever individual that doesn't apply himself like those great thinkers is doing them an injustice.
Ok. So if you are either Einstein or Carmack, do what you like. For everyone else, start passing some fvcking tests.
Ok, I should have clarified my previous statement. I understand that it is possible for someone to do well when self taught; however, for every one successful self taught person you find, I'm sure you'd find a substantially higher number of college educated individuals that are just as or more successful.
"I agree with you whole-heartedly that some of the great minds of the common era and past ages have been self-taught. But how many of those individuals are there? They are an extreme rarity, and to treat ever individual that doesn't apply himself like those great thinkers is doing them an injustice."
I agree that intelligent people are rare. However, when they are found, they are labeled as "lazy", "dumb", etc. It isn't until they bring this new thesis that helps the real world that everyone who ever called them lazy or dumb comes out, pampers them and calls them bright.
Yes, the intelligent should not be mistaken for the dull or average person who's plain lazy. However, I'm afraid often people cannot tell the difference. Often people make the mistake of lumping all together because the intelligent ones have failed to beat the system by learning to memorise or master every teachers' testing method in order to see the magic letter "A" or "B". The intelligent people can be uncovered, but it takes mastery and observatiob. It's so easy to think that an intelligent person is plain dumb because it isn't reflected in their grades or test scores. Sometimes too, the intelligence is there but hasn't reached its time for explosion and exposure.
I agree that intelligent people are rare. However, when they are found, they are labeled as "lazy", "dumb", etc. It isn't until they bring this new thesis that helps the real world that everyone who ever called them lazy or dumb comes out, pampers them and calls them bright.
Yes, the intelligent should not be mistaken for the dull or average person who's plain lazy. However, I'm afraid often people cannot tell the difference. Often people make the mistake of lumping all together because the intelligent ones have failed to beat the system by learning to memorise or master every teachers' testing method in order to see the magic letter "A" or "B". The intelligent people can be uncovered, but it takes mastery and observatiob. It's so easy to think that an intelligent person is plain dumb because it isn't reflected in their grades or test scores. Sometimes too, the intelligence is there but hasn't reached its time for explosion and exposure.
Hmm, I find it interesting that Steven Hawking, one of the most brilliant scientists of our time, went to college. Not to drop names or anything
Originally posted by: Growltiger
Hmm, I find it interesting that Steven Hawking, one of the most brilliant scientists of our time, went to college. Not to drop names or anything
You don't say? I like how society loves to focus on those successful people who drop out of college but ignore all the rest who actually went to college.
There is always exceptions to a rule. But, if you read the history, vest majority of successful people have attended HS and college.
Since you said you were self-taught, is that mean all the way to a college level? Or, did you attend college?
idnut isn't applying himself, that is the focal point of this thread, he has no motivation nor desires to improve himself.
i think he should take one of those test thingies that asks questions, and at the end gives some job ideas, and what would be required for them. Was enough to motivate me to get to the top of all my science classes
Originally posted by: idNut
Being kind is more important than being important.
If you'd rather be kind and poor than kind and successful, then by all means... Keep it up.
Didn't you say you were going to study?
johnjohn320
Diamond Member
- Jan 9, 2001
- 7,572
- 2
- 76
You sound like one of my best friends, he often has this "what's the point?" attitude. What you say makes sense. I guess I just follow more the mentality of Colin Hanks in Orange County:
"I have to go to college."
"Why?"
"Bec...ca...cause that's what you do... after High School!"
My point is, we can sit here and be all philisophical, but you're not likely to be happy if you don't go with the flow to some extent. It's much better to have a job and be thinking 'what's the point' than to be starving and feel righteous.
Yep. I remember I took Chemistry because of the pressure of being different if I didn't. Boy was I f_cking stupid. I not only showed everyone that I couldn't do it but also added even more pressure upon me. That's the last time I'm gonna try and keep up with the jones.
Chemistry is quite easy IMO, at least for me all you have to do is pay attention in class (Don't even have to take notes) and you're garunteed(sp?) at least a B / C.
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