Replace Trickle Down with Middle Class up

[Genx87]

Evidently the left pines for the good old days of the 1950s where productivity was low and standard of living was far lower, but dammit people joined unions and we taxed the shit out of the rich. Sure we all lived in 2 bedroom, 1 bath houses back then and cost of everything as a percentage of our income was way, way higher but then again we got to oppress those uppity negroes and women knew their place was at home, amirite?

I find it interesting so many on the left talk about the 1950s as an ideal time frame for labor in America. It was great if you were a white male. Jobs galore. A woman? Black? Not so much. Not to mention the other restrictions placed on people during that time frame. Taken in and of itself I wouldn't think much of it. But so many who rave about the 1950s also point to 95% white Scandinavia as their ideal playground. There seems to be a coincidence here that is too much to ignore.

 

[glenn1]

here lets look at more things made in the first world and see what we have lost (unless you know then you can buy something that last a long long time)

You could still hire someone to make you those high-quality products if you wish. Only you won't reach into your own pockets to pay them because, well "collective action problem" or some such shit. As always you want to enjoy the consumer benefits of lower prices yourself but have someone else (preferably some 'rich' guy) pay for the workers to receive the wages you think they should have.

 

[JSt0rm]

You could still hire someone to make you those high-quality products if you wish. Only you won't reach into your own pockets to pay them because, well "collective action problem" or some such shit. As always you want to enjoy the consumer benefits of lower prices yourself but have someone else (preferably some 'rich' guy) pay for the workers to receive the wages you think they should have.

lol those are my photos of my stuff. lol.

 

[Genx87]

I'm sure the billionaires of the world have the same thought.

So plundering the wealthy (billionaires) to spread it out to the rest of the US is OK, but plundering the wealthy (US citizens) to spread it out to the rest of the world is crazy?

LOL, Democrats.

Pretty funny how peoples care for the poor ends at a border

 

[JSt0rm]

Pretty funny how peoples care for the poor ends at a border

I buy American made as much as possible. Speed queen washer/dryer? Denim? socks? tshirts? furniture? Everythign I can. Yes I have a iphone 6. Yes I have clothes made in china. Yes I have electronics made in the 3rd world. I also have electronics made in america, canada and england. I know people dont take it to the levels I do and thats on them. I try.

 

[JSt0rm]

you guys think you are patriots? Fuck off. You arent shit. You would rip the job out from under your fellow American to save 30%.

 

[JSt0rm]

if we take the thread title and the responses to that from the republicans around here we can see that the middle class is clearly CLEARLY not a priority. Trickle down has nothing to do with creating jobs and its clear they know it and dont care.

Treat your kids well because the world they will inherit is harder and the world their kids will inherit will be even harder still.

 

[Spungo]

Wow that's expensive. The median house in 1960 cost a little under $13,000. Median today is $190,000. If you adjust for inflation, that TV cost about $7,200.

I can understand how people could have a business just repairing TV sets, and each family would only have 1 TV.

 

[JSt0rm]

yeah because moores law isnt real and tv sets made in the usa would cost $7200 today. Them costing that much had nothing to do with the technology being new.

 

[JSt0rm]

lets use old technology that is full matured as an example of why we dotn want things made in america. And then we can keep repeating that as if it had some basis in reality.

It could be a fox news headline "some people say..."

 

[Spungo]

yeah because moores law isnt real and tv sets made in the usa would cost $7200 today. Them costing that much had nothing to do with the technology being new.

Correct, moore's law does not apply to hard materials like copper, iron, etc. A piece of iron is a piece of iron. Glass is glass. Motors today are just as expensive as motors 60 years ago. They're better today, but they're not cheaper.

 

[sm625]

here lets look at more things made in the first world and see what we have lost (unless you know then you can buy something that last a long long time)

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make. It costs roughly $5 for the fabric and other parts of a pair of jeans, including the wash. The typical labor cost today is only around $2-$3 per pair. That is a grand whopping total of $8 max for a pair of jeans. Yet somehow those jeans come here and are sold for a whopping $40-$70. Hell, or more. That is batshit insane and it aint got nuthin to do with labor costs. The labor cost to make those jeans in America would be around $15, max. It is high compared to a slave labor country, but not outrageous. So you have a grand total of $20 a pair unit cost. A reasonable profit margin of 50% yields a final price of $40. So why doesnt this happen? Because offshoring brought the promise of not a healthy 50% profit margin, but 80%, 100%, 150%, 200% profit. It is sick. Disgusting. It needs to END. Drop a $20 tariff on a pair of jeans. Boom. Factories come back here in a flash? Why? Because 50% margins are still an opportunity. Not in today's world of slave labor arbitrage, but take that crap away and the opportunities come back. Everyone wins, except the top 0.1% who own the media that says how unbelievably disastrous this would be.

 

[JSt0rm]

Correct, moore's law does not apply to hard materials like copper, iron, etc. A piece of iron is a piece of iron. Glass is glass. Motors today are just as expensive as motors 60 years ago. They're better today, but they're not cheaper.

Because a modern tv is made of iron glass and a motor. :biggrin:

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make. It costs roughly $5 for the fabric and other parts of a pair of jeans, including the wash. The typical labor cost today is only around $2-$3 per pair. That is a grand whopping total of $8 max for a pair of jeans. Yet somehow those jeans come here and are sold for a whopping $40-$70. Hell, or more. That is batshit insane and it aint got nuthin to do with labor costs. The labor cost to make those jeans in America would be around $15, max. It is high compared to a slave labor country, but not outrageous. So you have a grand total of $20 a pair unit cost. A reasonable profit margin of 50% yields a final price of $40. So why doesnt this happen? Because offshoring brought the promise of not a healthy 50% profit margin, but 80%, 100%, 150%, 200% profit. It is sick. Disgusting. It needs to END. Drop a $20 tariff on a pair of jeans. Boom. Factories come back here in a flash? Why? Because 50% margins are still an opportunity. Not in today's world of slave labor arbitrage, but take that crap away and the opportunities come back. Everyone wins, except the top 0.1% who own the media that says how unbelievably disastrous this would be.

No it doesnt. It costs more because the materials are better. That pair of denim has a copper zipper and all copper hardware from a place in Kentucky that has been making zippers since the civil war. The cotton used is the finest on the planet and it has ben died with real indigo ink.

also the looms used are from the 1800's and they use a chain stitching machine from the 1800s as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_stitch


So again we see the average american has lost the ability to see quality.

 

[JSt0rm]

oh and that wash is from being worn. It was not done by a machine. Its the real thing

 

[MagickMan]

All the middle class needs to do is stop spending.

No more perpetual auto leases or 100 dollar monthly iPhone bills,etc..

The problem is the middle class load themselves up with debt trying to one up each other in the totempole. Instead of investing.

Yup, the wealthiest of Americans accrue their money at the same rate the lower classes build up debt. That's not a coincidence. Stop spending with reckless abandon and you'll weaken the upper class while reinforcing your own financial positions.

 

[Spungo]

The labor cost to make those jeans in America would be around $15, max.

Exactly. The reason companies don't invest here is because it's a nightmare of red tape and bullshit.

Because a modern tv is made of iron glass and a motor.

If everything changed, why does a large a CRT television weigh 100+ pounds? Do they fill the thing with rocks? I think it's more reasonable to assume it weighs 100 pounds because it's full of copper, iron, and glass.

 

[SMOGZINN]

CRT television weigh 100+ pounds

Where are you finding large CRT TV's today?

 

[glenn1]

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make. It costs roughly $5 for the fabric and other parts of a pair of jeans, including the wash. The typical labor cost today is only around $2-$3 per pair. That is a grand whopping total of $8 max for a pair of jeans. Yet somehow those jeans come here and are sold for a whopping $40-$70. Hell, or more. That is batshit insane and it aint got nuthin to do with labor costs. The labor cost to make those jeans in America would be around $15, max. It is high compared to a slave labor country, but not outrageous. So you have a grand total of $20 a pair unit cost. A reasonable profit margin of 50% yields a final price of $40. So why doesnt this happen? Because offshoring brought the promise of not a healthy 50% profit margin, but 80%, 100%, 150%, 200% profit. It is sick. Disgusting. It needs to END. Drop a $20 tariff on a pair of jeans. Boom. Factories come back here in a flash? Why? Because 50% margins are still an opportunity. Not in today's world of slave labor arbitrage, but take that crap away and the opportunities come back. Everyone wins, except the top 0.1% who own the media that says how unbelievably disastrous this would be.

So let me see if I get your premise - we should switch to a "middle class up" approach that consists of forcing everyone (including middle class people) to pay more for goods, which then should hopefully boost employment creating more middle class people. Which begs the question of what it means to be "middle class" when a pair of boots costs $500 like you advocated for not long ago. Because reverting back to the age where people expected to wear their grandparents' clothing was the norm because clothing cost so much because "they were so well made" is a winning political strategy.

 

[JSt0rm]

Where are you finding large CRT TV's today?

He doesnt know what the fuck hes talking about and wants to continue with his horrible example. :hmm:

 

[JSt0rm]

Exactly. The reason companies don't invest here is because it's a nightmare of red tape and bullshit.

Stop being dumb. I just broke down why those jeans wouldnt cost $15. If you want to ignore that then fine but thats the reality.

 

[BoberFett]

so you want to see future generations standard of living go down because you want to spread the us wealth around the globe? I guess this is good to know. The modern neocon not only wants to export war but also the wealth of the nation.

Standard of living MUST go down. The current American lifestyle is not sustainable. Even your Obama said it, that we can't keep running our air conditioners and using all of the world's resources.

You're advocating economic isolationism. You realize that's a failed concept, right?

 

[BoberFett]

you guys think you are patriots? Fuck off. You arent shit. You would rip the job out from under your fellow American to save 30%.

 

[Indus]

Standard of living MUST go down.

Tell that to Trump and every billionaire.

 

[JSt0rm]

Standard of living MUST go down. The current American lifestyle is not sustainable. Even your Obama said it, that we can't keep running our air conditioners and using all of the world's resources.

You're advocating economic isolationism. You realize that's a failed concept, right?

Standard of living has less to do with how much resources we consume and more to do with what services and opportunities are available to americans.

Not everyone gets to live the dream but they should all have the opportunity.

Moving towards using less fossil fuels and less plastics would be a great thing.

Im not advocating economic isolation. Im advocating a even playing field. We should do business with other first world open countries and the rest of the world can strive to become that. Instead we pollute some 3rd world shit hole and use slave labor and say its a good thing. Fuck that. Its not.