Replace Trickle Down with Middle Class up

[Mai72]

I also wanted to say that I live 10 minutes from Avalon and Stone Harbor. These two beach resorts are very wealthy. My parents had a restaurant in Stone Harbor for 12 years, and my parents were good friends with many of the people who visited their store.

These are secondary homes for many residents. These people have so much money that it's truly shocking. I've talked to a few of these people, and many were in business for themselves. I remember talking to a lady who owned 8 large restaurants. I talked to another who owned an island. The rich do think differently than most middle class Americans.

 

[JSt0rm]

Corporate tax rate should be zero. We want people to invest in this country. We can have laws for things like minimum wage and maternity leave, but it should still be very profitable to be in the US. There should be a reason to move offices and factories here and create jobs with good wages.

Right now, we're attacking this thing from the wrong end. Republicans are saying the middle class will do better with personal income tax cuts. What good are tax cuts if your job is delivering pizzas? I think I would rather pay 40% tax as an auto worker than pay 20% tax as a pizza delivery person. The democrats think the solution is higher taxes on corporations, which is just as silly. If companies are fleeing the country when tax rates are 40%, wouldn't they run faster if taxes were 45% or 50%?
Corporate tax rate in Mexico is about 30%. If we had our rate at 0%, companies would be moving from Mexico to the US even though the wages are higher here. There was a time when the US had the highest wages in the world, and we still dominated global manufacturing because it was still the best place to be located. People would brag about having imported stuff because imports were more expensive. That has slowly flipped around over the years. Now things made in the US are outrageously expensive because you need to get a permit from the city just to remove a tree from your own yard.

How to sell yogurt (hint: Don't bother trying to start a business. It's easier to just get a job at McDonalds or something.)

I dont believe this at all. Look at the vfx industry. It has left the usa and not because of tax incentives but because labor is cheap. If you want to tow that line then fine but its wrong. Sure business will tell you they will leave if they dont get a tax break but they will leave regardless. The moment the makes sense to do so (or the moment you must for competition or fuck it you want to be first).

We cant compete with the cheap labor in other parts of the world. Globalization was just another part of the hoodwink done by your masters. I see they are continuing this with this silly idea that if we have enough tax breaks we wont leave. How about if you leave you get fucking taxed for everything you bring back? They dont talk about that. No 0% taxes and we will stay, we swear.

 

[Mai72]

I dont believe this at all. Look at the vfx industry. It has left the usa and not because of tax incentives but because labor is cheap. If you want to tow that line then fine but its wrong. Sure business will tell you they will leave if they dont get a tax break but they will leave regardless. The moment the makes sense to do so (or the moment you must for competition or fuck it you want to be first).

We cant compete with the cheap labor in other parts of the world. Globalization was just another part of the hoodwink done by your masters. I see they are continuing this with this silly idea that if we have enough tax breaks we wont leave. How about if you leave you get fucking taxed for everything you bring back? They dont talk about that. No 0% taxes and we will stay, we swear.

Why don't we put a large tax on everything that comes into America?

That would probably encourage many American businesses to stay put.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Documentary 'Inequality for all" by former Labor secretary Robert Reich

Full film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdV1Z_nD1sA&feature=share

explains how the current HUGE gap between the top 1% and the 99% happened.
and how to fix it.

the US econ is 70% spending and the top 1% don't spend enuf relative to their income.
they can only wear so much clothing, eat so many meals in fancy restaurants, sleep in so many beds per nite, get so many haircuts, etc.

either make the middle class stronger or change the US econ.

Not going to watch it, but I'm calling it that the conclusion is RAISE TAXES.

 

[sm625]

It would do the exact opposite of what you think it would do. Let's follow the logic here. If I try to expand my business, I could lose 100% of my money if I'm wrong, but I get only a 10% profit if I'm right. I think I would just sit on the money rather than invest it.

Companies in the US have been doing something similar to this for the past few years. It's not due to taxes, but due to overall pessimism about the economy. The US is still in the middle of the second longest depression in our history. US companies don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Rather than taking on debt to expand the business, they take on debt to return cash to shareholders in the form of stock repurchases. This is exactly what would happen if you raised taxes to 90%. They would borrow as much as possible then financially stripe mine the company.
IBM. In 2014, $4.2b went to capital investment, and $17b went to dividends and stock repurchases. This is what it looks like when executives say "There's no reason to invest. Let's get as much money to shareholders as possible then jump ship."

I havent watched the video yet so I cant comment on what type of tax rates they're pushing, but I can say for sure that what is required is a high top marginal individual income tax rate. But you also want a very low corporate tax rate. I've been harping on this point for years, it is very important to make the distinction. This combination of tax rates would absolutely NOT result in what you are describing. Corporations would in fact become tax shelters. Investment, specifically in capital, would skyrocket, while personal incomes would fall. There will simply not be the motivation to strip mine a corporation because taking too much personal income just causes the income to be taxed away. But if the money is instead used to grow the company, then it is not taxed.

 

[Genx87]

I dont believe this at all. Look at the vfx industry. It has left the usa and not because of tax incentives but because labor is cheap. If you want to tow that line then fine but its wrong. Sure business will tell you they will leave if they dont get a tax break but they will leave regardless. The moment the makes sense to do so (or the moment you must for competition or fuck it you want to be first).

We cant compete with the cheap labor in other parts of the world. Globalization was just another part of the hoodwink done by your masters. I see they are continuing this with this silly idea that if we have enough tax breaks we wont leave. How about if you leave you get fucking taxed for everything you bring back? They dont talk about that. No 0% taxes and we will stay, we swear.

Labor, enviornment, health, and financial regulation, cost of supply. It isnt just labor. Globalization is a natural economic effect that will increase the standards of living for everybody within the economy of Earth. Or are you one of those people who believe American workers deserve to take the job of a person in a 3rd world country and be paid much more for it because of where they were born?

You like the prescription drug economy? Put economic walls around this country for everything that can be made in America and we can all vastly over pay for things.

 

[Spungo]

Why don't we put a large tax on everything that comes into America?

That would probably encourage many American businesses to stay put.

We did that in the 1930s. The rest of the world retaliated by putting huge taxes on US products. Exports crashed and millions of people were thrown into poverty. A recession that should have lasted 1-2 years ended up lasting about 17 years.

 

[JSt0rm]

Labor, enviornment, health, and financial regulation, cost of supply. It isnt just labor. Globalization is a natural economic effect that will increase the standards of living for everybody within the economy of Earth.

Oh so the globalization nuts care about all the people of this world? Our standards of living are going down btw. Because of globalization. You just dont notice it really because the decline is small. How do you cook a frog?

Or are you one of those people who believe American workers deserve to take the job of a person in a 3rd world country and be paid much more for it because of where they were born?

Fuck yes I think we deserve more. What kind of communist are you? We were the first to have this new form of government that works. We should be on top and try to stya on top. wtf is wrong with you?

 

[JSt0rm]

We did that in the 1930s. The rest of the world retaliated by putting huge taxes on US products. Exports crashed and millions of people were thrown into poverty. A recession that should have lasted 1-2 years ended up lasting about 17 years.

The rest of the world has huge taxes on us products. Would you buy a pair of jeans for $200? $400? What if I told you the people making them make $25 a hour and have full benefits? Would you buy them then? if not why not?

 

[realibrad]

What's a lot of money? $60k a year? I live in NJ and that's not much money for a family of 4. The average salary in America is $50,500 That's net, not gross. IMO, that's not enough. Even when both parents are working.

There is a book I'm currently reading called "The 10X Rule" by Grant Cardone. He says that most Americans seriously underestimate their financial situation. So, if you're making $60k you need to think much larger, because that's what you're going to need to be financially secure. So, 10X the $60k into $600,000K. Think larger. Many middle class Americans don't so they are forever trapped fighting for scraps.

60k a year is a lot of money depending on your lifestyle and where you live. Wikipedia says the average income in NJ as of 2014 is $67,458.

Keep in mind. Having kids is an expense. If you choose to have kids, then its going to cost you money. If you buy the average house, its going to be larger than it used to be, so its going to cost you more too.

 

[SMOGZINN]

We did that in the 1930s. The rest of the world retaliated by putting huge taxes on US products. Exports crashed and millions of people were thrown into poverty. A recession that should have lasted 1-2 years ended up lasting about 17 years.

That was a different situation. There have been vast changes in the labor market, shipping times and costs, as well as the legislative costs of doing business in the US. At that time the US was a major manufacturer, we no longer are. America could better withstand taxes on our exports if we curbed some of the imports.

 

[JSt0rm]

Those 3rd world socialist countries that for some fucking reason the republicans around here want to help have the tax rates you all dream about and no middle class. This is where we are headed. Because everyone wants every fucking thing for cheap. Like cheap is the best thing. How about quality? workmanship?

How about not supporting some shit 3rd world country that will never be anything else because of the socio-economic structure there?

Or china? They will take everything and leave us starving. And that is a legit communist country you all support every day.

Its like we live in opposite bizarre world. Republicans support communist china and demand that the 3rd world's standards of living are increased at the expense of americans. Fucking amazing.

 

[Genx87]

Oh so the globalization nuts care about all the people of this world? Our standards of living are going down btw. Because of globalization. You just dont notice it really because the decline is small. How do you cook a frog?

I dont think business cares that much about standards of living increases. However the people they employ do.

Fuck yes I think we deserve more. What kind of communist are you? We were the first to have this new form of government that works. We should be on top and try to stya on top. wtf is wrong with you?

So you are an economic nationalist. That is good to know. But realize your way of thinking has been tried in the past and failed miserably. Often times ending in war.

 

[Spungo]

The rest of the world has huge taxes on us products. Would you buy a pair of jeans for $200? $400? What if I told you the people making them make $25 a hour and have full benefits? Would you buy them then? if not why not?

I wouldn't. I would probably learn to sew and make my own.


My mom is a wizard when it comes to sewing. She grew up when clothes were made by union workers getting paid the equivalent of six figure salaries, so she, like most people, made her own clothes. This is also why shoe repair was a thing. When your shoes cost $500 in today's terms, you tend to fix them instead of replacing them. Unbelievably expensive clothing is the reason hand-me-down clothes were common, and people would gift clothing for christmas. Every mother knew how to sew. It was a basic skill every woman was expected to have. Men were expected to repair lots of things around the house because it wasn't feasible to buy replacements for anything. New TV? Nope, fix the old one. New fridge? Nope, fix the old one.

Look at what globalization has done for us. Shoes are so cheap that I can just throw them out and buy new ones. I don't need to make my own clothes. I can buy clothes. I can buy more clothes than I could ever wear.

 

[Genx87]

Those 3rd world socialist countries that for some fucking reason the republicans around here want to help have the tax rates you all dream about and no middle class. This is where we are headed. Because everyone wants every fucking thing for cheap. Like cheap is the best thing. How about quality? workmanship?

How about not supporting some shit 3rd world country that will never be anything else because of the socio-economic structure there?

Or china? They will take everything and leave us starving. And that is a legit communist country you all support every day.

Its like we live in opposite bizarre world. Republicans support communist china and demand that the 3rd world's standards of living are increased at the expense of americans. Fucking amazing.

What are you rambling on about? Fuck the rest of the world because Murrica?

 

[JSt0rm]

unbelievably expensive clothing was of such quality it could be hand-me down.

You can buy $500 boots today and replace the soles when they wear out for $100. Keeping the nice leather upper.

You cant do that with cheap shoes/boots. They are made to not be taken apart. Waste waste waste.

 

[glenn1]

Labor, enviornment, health, and financial regulation, cost of supply. It isnt just labor. Globalization is a natural economic effect that will increase the standards of living for everybody within the economy of Earth. Or are you one of those people who believe American workers deserve to take the job of a person in a 3rd world country and be paid much more for it because of where they were born?

You like the prescription drug economy? Put economic walls around this country for everything that can be made in America and we can all vastly over pay for things.

Evidently the left pines for the good old days of the 1950s where productivity was low and standard of living was far lower, but dammit people joined unions and we taxed the shit out of the rich. Sure we all lived in 2 bedroom, 1 bath houses back then and cost of everything as a percentage of our income was way, way higher but then again we got to oppress those uppity negroes and women knew their place was at home, amirite?

 

[JSt0rm]

What are you rambling on about? Fuck the rest of the world because Murrica?

basically.

 

[Genx87]

unbelievably expensive clothing was of such quality it could be hand-me down.

You can buy $500 boots today and replace the soles when they wear out for $100. Keeping the nice leather upper.

You cant do that with cheap shoes/boots. They are made to not be taken apart. Waste waste waste.

Are least you acknowledge we will be paying $500 for boots instead of $50 in your ideal economy. Have to give you props for that.

 

[JSt0rm]

I dont think business cares that much about standards of living increases. However the people they employ do.



So you are an economic nationalist. That is good to know. But realize your way of thinking has been tried in the past and failed miserably. Often times ending in war.

There is a balance to be achieved. When I have friends whos only option is to move to asia to continue working in vfx something is wrong.

 

[JSt0rm]

Are least you acknowledge we will be paying $500 for boots instead of $50 in your ideal economy. Have to give you props for that.

wouldnt that be just horrible?

 

[glenn1]

wouldnt that be just horrible?

Fine with me, the poor you profess to care so much about would be kinda fucked though. At the $15/hour wage you guys are calling for that means a min wage worker would need 33.33 hours gross (probably 40 net after taxes, etc.) to buy a single pair of boots. Of course that's presuming they'd rather forego eating and having shelter so they didn't need to go shoeless.

 

[BoberFett]

Fuck yes I think we deserve more. What kind of communist are you? We were the first to have this new form of government that works. We should be on top and try to stya on top. wtf is wrong with you?

I'm sure the billionaires of the world have the same thought.

So plundering the wealthy (billionaires) to spread it out to the rest of the US is OK, but plundering the wealthy (US citizens) to spread it out to the rest of the world is crazy?

LOL, Democrats.

 

[JSt0rm]

here lets look at more things made in the first world and see what we have lost (unless you know then you can buy something that last a long long time)

 

[JSt0rm]

Fine with me, the poor you profess to care so much about would be kinda fucked though. At the $15/hour wage you guys are calling for that means a min wage worker would need 33.33 hours gross (probably 40 net after taxes, etc.) to buy a single pair of boots. Of course that's presuming they'd rather forego eating and having shelter so they didn't need to go shoeless.

Its all about balance.

I'm sure the billionaires of the world have the same thought.

So plundering the wealthy (billionaires) to spread it out to the rest of the US is OK, but plundering the wealthy (US citizens) to spread it out to the rest of the world is crazy?

LOL, Democrats.

so you want to see future generations standard of living go down because you want to spread the us wealth around the globe? I guess this is good to know. The modern neocon not only wants to export war but also the wealth of the nation.