Repeat after me: "I don't live in a police state" (UK)

[irishScott]

Yeah that's fair, I guess we are just way past the "experiment" stage.

No nation ever is. Governments fall. It's a fact of history. It may chug along for up towards 1000 years, but eventually they fall. Sometimes it's a peaceful transition, more often than not it's violent. I'm not saying it'll happen in our lifetimes, but unless we get a way of producing infinite resources or fundamentally change human nature, an armed populace is the only concrete barrier to corruption and exploitation.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally Posted by HAL9000
It's better than American society / culture. We are more free over here.

That is a very bold statement to make without providing any details. Assuming you aren't making it just to rile up the crowd as per your usual modus operandi, what are basing this assertion on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Population_statistics

 

[HAL9000]

No nation ever is. Governments fall. It's a fact of history. It may chug along for up towards 1000 years, but eventually they fall. Sometimes it's a peaceful transition, more often than not it's violent. I'm not saying it'll happen in our lifetimes, but unless we get a way of producing infinite resources or fundamentally change human nature, an armed populace is the only concrete barrier to corruption and exploitation.

Well were doing fine. We aren't going to need guns to fight the government any time soon, if that's the reason you guys have guns it's a bit insane.

 

[HAL9000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Population_statistics

:thumbsup:

 

[irishScott]

Well were doing fine. We aren't going to need guns to fight the government any time soon, if that's the reason you guys have guns it's a bit insane.

It's one reason. The primary one for me is my human right to self defense. In the modern age, that means guns without having to jump through hoops to make the ignorant pussies feel good.

 

[HAL9000]

It's one reason. The primary one for me is my human right to self defense. In the modern age, that means guns without having to jump through hoops to make the ignorant pussies feel good.

Well that we have to agree to disagree with, let's not turn this into that thread.

 

[irishScott]

Well that we have to agree to disagree with, let's not turn this into that thread.

Agreed.

 

[irishScott]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Population_statistics

Those statistics mean nothing. By your implied logic Congo, the rape capital of the world, is freer than the US.

 

[WelshBloke]

Those statistics mean nothing. By your implied logic Congo, the rape capital of the world, is freer than the US.

No.

People are saying the UK is a police state.

The UK imprisons way less of its population than the US does.


And by many definitions the Congo is a much freer place to live. Thats not to say its a good place to live.

 

[HAL9000]

Those statistics mean nothing. By your implied logic Congo, the rape capital of the world, is freer than the US.

It is freer than the US, people in this forum are constantly arguing for "freedom to's" rather than "freedom from's" well in the Congo you've got the freedom to rape, just not the freedom from being raped, and according to some of the people in this thread freedoms to are more important :hmm:

 

[Broheim]

They don't need to be better equipped, but they do need to at least have a real fighting chance. An armed populace won't have Bradley transports, M1 Abrams tanks, Howitzers, etc...but that doesn't mean that they won't be successful using small arms and guerrilla tactics. With no arms, they stand no chance unless the Police/military switch sides. See Egypt for an example. An armed populace can wear down government forces, or at least make them think twice before following immoral orders. If the American military, as powerful as it is, turned its guns against its own populace, it would lose no matter how many casualties it inflicts - either by defection or by attrition due to the well-armed populace.

Egypt protests were all peaceful, no citizen ever took up arms against the military, that's why the protesters won...
Egypt has very stict gun laws.

 

[werepossum]

Americans have guns and knives because we're free creatures, with all the rights, responsibilities, terrors and potential of free creatures. The Brits do not have these things because they are not free creatures, but wards of the state. If one cannot provide one's own health care, why should the state trust you to carry a gun or even a knife unless government decides you need it?

There's a reason people speak of the American dream and not the British dream. When one is property, one has neither need nor use for a dream.

 

[monkeh624]

I'd definitely say they are pretty typical. My free speech views are something I talk to a lot of people about since I've been on here and everyone agrees. Everyone here also thinks that health care should be free, as it is here (in my experience) people (except criminals) agree that the role of police is how it should be and I don't know anyone that thinks you should have the right to defend yourself with violence against a police officer, except possibly the criminally insane, as for the role of government, I'm not sure I've never discussed it with people.

I usually just read these threads for the lulz, but felt I had to chime in on this point. I'd say that your views are certainly not typical. They may well be typical in your circle of family and friends, but that sample size is far too small to show anything meaningful.

You seem to think that the government and the police are your friends. One day you will learn that this is not the case.
Btw, if you think that health care is free then you are naive.

 

[Broheim]

I usually just read these threads for the lulz, but felt I had to chime in on this point. I'd say that your views are certainly not typical. They may well be typical in your circle of family and friends, but that sample size is far too small to show anything meaningful.

You seem to think that the government and the police are your friends. One day you will learn that this is not the case.
Btw, if you think that health care is free then you are naive.

riddle me this, are you British or American?

 

[Fenixgoon]

troll troll troll your boat.....

 

[Monster_Munch]

Americans have guns and knives because we're free creatures

Americans have guns because their right-wing media keeps them in a constant state of fear. They think everyone they don't know is either a serial killer or a terrorist.

 

[monkeh624]

riddle me this, are you British or American?

British. English, if you want to get specific.

 

[HAL9000]

Americans have guns and knives because we're free creatures, with all the rights, responsibilities, terrors and potential of free creatures. The Brits do not have these things because they are not free creatures, but wards of the state. If one cannot provide one's own health care, why should the state trust you to carry a gun or even a knife unless government decides you need it?

There's a reason people speak of the American dream and not the British dream. When one is property, one has neither need nor use for a dream.

Wtf do you mean "If one cannot provide ones own health care"...? We can do that obviously.

I usually just read these threads for the lulz, but felt I had to chime in on this point. I'd say that your views are certainly not typical. They may well be typical in your circle of family and friends, but that sample size is far too small to show anything meaningful.

You seem to think that the government and the police are your friends. One day you will learn that this is not the case.
Btw, if you think that health care is free then you are naive.

So how much does it cost you when you get a break your leg and have to go to the hospital?

Also, I'm yet to meet an English person who, when told about the Westboro baptist church, thinks that what america do about that is right.

 

[monkeh624]

Wtf do you mean "If one cannot provide ones own health care"...? We can do that obviously.



So how much does it cost you when you get a break your leg and have to go to the hospital?

Also, I'm yet to meet an English person who, when told about the Westboro baptist church, thinks that what america do about that is right.

I have around £200 (not an exact figure) taken from me each pay cheque for NI (national insurance for those who do not know).
So regardless of the fact that no money changes hands if/when I visit a hospital, it is certainly not free.

 

[HAL9000]

I have around £200 (not an exact figure) taken from me each pay cheque for NI (national insurance for those who do not know).
So regardless of the fact that no money changes hands if/when I visit a hospital, it is certainly not free.

Because you are an employed tax payer, also all of that doesn't go to health care, just some of it.

What if you were unemployed how much would it cost you then?

 

[WelshBloke]

Because you are an employed tax payer, also all of that doesn't go to health care, just some of it.

What if you were unemployed how much would it cost you then?

Also, FSM forbid, that you ever come down with a chronic debilitating disease, that £200 a month won't go far.

 

[monkeh624]

Because you are an employed tax payer, also all of that doesn't go to health care, just some of it.

What if you were unemployed how much would it cost you then?

You are missing the point. You stated that:

'Everyone here also thinks that health care should be free, as it is here'

Those were your exact words. I was simply pointing out that it is not free.

Also, FSM forbid, that you ever come down with a chronic debilitating disease, that £200 a month won't go far.

Blessings be upon his noodly appendage.

Just to clarify, I have nothing against the NHS, it's a pretty good system. As WB points out, if I was struck down by a debilitating disease the NI contributions I have paid would be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of treating me.
It just annoys me slightly me people say that is is 'free'. Nothing's ever free.

 

[Zebo]

Meh, Certain knives you can't have here either. Course I think it's wrong but USA is just as police statish. We are even starting to have cameras everywhere.

 

[Broheim]

You are missing the point. You stated that:

'Everyone here also thinks that health care should be free, as it is here'

Those were your exact words. I was simply pointing out that it is not free.



Blessings be upon his noodly appendage.

Just to clarify, I have nothing against the NHS, it's a pretty good system. As WB points out, if I was struck down by a debilitating disease the NI contributions I have paid would be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of treating me.
It just annoys me slightly me people say that is is 'free'. Nothing's ever free.

free (universal) healthcare doesn't mean it's cost-free, contrary to popular american belief the UK and rest of the EU aren't communists, it just means it's provided to you freely without additional cost to you.

 

[irishScott]

Americans have guns because their right-wing media keeps them in a constant state of fear. They think everyone they don't know is either a serial killer or a terrorist.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breath* Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

No. Fail. Laughably fail. I'm sorry if you think British citizens aren't capable of simultaneously trusting people and owning guns/ammo/the right to defend themselves. A good chunk of Americans fortunately are. Sure there are some paranoid survivalist morons out there. They make better news and better forum trolls, so you hear about them. They are hardly representative of your average gun owner.