Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

[UglyCasanova]

I know they did. He deserved jail. But reality is he walks. Ford pardoned him to "heal" America. These people walk. If Trump is actually convicted of something the pardon immediately follows whether the public wants it or not.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Can you also add “does nothing meaningful to address illegal immigration as it exists today to this list too please?. Neither the methods or motivations for it.

Sure add it. You are willing to dig your feet in and shut down the government because it doesn’t meaningfully address it? Really?

 

[zzyzxroad]

Does his base want a wall?

Yes but a better question is why. An even better question is why do you keep playing devil's advocate over a topic you say you think is a waste of money? Why not spend your time informing the duped about the wool that has been pulled over their eyes?

 

[Viper1j]

I know they did. He deserved jail. But reality is he walks. Ford pardoned him to "heal" America. These people walk. If Trump is actually convicted of something the pardon immediately follows whether the public wants it or not.

Trump is facing both federal AND state charges. He WILL go to jail. Because Pence can't pardon him from state convictions.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Sure add it. You are willing to dig your feet in and shut down the government because it doesn’t meaningfully address it? Really?

Actually both sides had an agreement days ago. Trump is the one who bailed on it after telling them he would sign it because limbaugh and coulter were mean to him.

He bears all responsibility. So he is the one digging his feet for an empty action that does nothing useful.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I mean that’s a political spin if it makes you feel better. Yes attump shut it down because he and his base and according to that survey somebody linked earlier 43% of voters want the damned wall whether it works or not. Dems say no, we won’t go along with it for various reasons (that’s not open borders!) and thus the gov gets shut down. Spin it how you want. Dems dug their heels in and said no, why?

It's hardly a spin. Trump himself said he was taking the responsibility for the shut down. Aside from an obscene waste of money, what motivation do the dems have for giving Trump help with his base?

 

[Vic]

I mean that’s a political spin if it makes you feel better. Yes attump shut it down because he and his base and according to that survey somebody linked earlier 43% of voters want the damned wall whether it works or not. Dems say no, we won’t go along with it for various reasons (that’s not open borders!) and thus the gov gets shut down. Spin it how you want. Dems dug their heels in and said no, why?

Because Trump promised the American People that they wouldn't have to pay his wall. So is it really so surprising to you that the majority of American People are refusing to pay for Trump's wall, even if he chooses to hold the entire country hostage?

 

[Vic]

Does his base want a wall?

Should a political minority always get what they want?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No they won’t. You know they won’t. America can’t stomach it.

You and some others might not but many of us would like to see justice done. Americans would embrace that except for those who believe Trump is above the law or should be. BTW, there is no law that says a SITTING President can't be tossed in jail. You can jailbreak him if you wish to try, but if NY pursues criminal charges we'll have the stomach without doubt.

 

[fskimospy]

Didn’t say you couldn’t. So just so I understand it, you think it’s worth shutting down the government because you think it’s a bad idea, waste of money, and looks bad for PR? That’s the reason?

No, it’s worth shutting down the government in order to prevent conservatives from thinking they can hold the government hostage to get policy concessions they couldn’t pass otherwise.

This is basic good governance - congress had passed legislation to fund the government and Trump decided to trash it so he could virtue signal to his base. It’s important to teach him a lesson as to the costs of playing these sort of games so he doesn’t try it again.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Because Trump promised the American People that they wouldn't have to pay his wall. So is it really so surprising to you that the majority of American People are refusing to pay for Trump's wall, even if he chooses to hold the entire country hostage?

The people refusing to pay for the wall were never Trump voters anyways. His base doesn’t care if Mexico paying was a lie which everyone knew it was when he said it. They want a damned wall. They don’t care if taxpayers pay. Hey don’t care about your arguement that it won’t work or some nonsense about PR. They want a wall.

 

[fskimospy]

No I’m questioning why this issue is where you dig your heels in and say no. I honk the wall is a stupid idea by why is that the thing to shut the government over. To me it doesn’t seem worth it

What’s odd is that you seem to think that means Democrats should capitulate to Trump’s demands instead of Republicans just overruling Trump. Why?

I’m struggling to make any sense of your position. You agree the wall is dumb and you think the government shouldn’t be shut down over it. Wouldn’t it logically follow to want Republicans to capitulate?

 

[UglyCasanova]

You and some others might not but many of us would like to see justice done. Americans would embrace that except for those who believe Trump is above the law or should be. BTW, there is no law that says a SITTING President can't be tossed in jail. You can jailbreak him if you wish to try, but if NY pursues criminal charges we'll have the stomach without doubt.

But you know deep down nothing will happen. All of us want justice done. I want Mueller to come out with the truth, lay it out there, indict anyone guilty of anything, convict and send them to jail. If Trump is guilty of what he’s accused lock him up. You know that won’t happen. Some bs about "intent" or something like that perhaps. These people don’t go by the same laws you and I do. What’s Bush doing nowadays?

 

[UglyCasanova]

What’s odd is that you seem to think that means Democrats should capitulate to Trump’s demands instead of Republicans just overruling Trump. Why?

I’m struggling to make any sense of your position. You agree the wall is dumb and you think the government shouldn’t be shut down over it. Wouldn’t it logically follow to want Republicans to capitulate?

The Repubiclans won’t capitulate because their constituents want the wall. The actual powers that be don’t want it, but the R voters sure as hell do. My question throughout the thread has always been why would the Dems dig in their heels to prevent a border wall. Why this. "It’s a waste of money" doesn’t seem like an adequate answer tbh.

 

[Engineer]

I think that may be the real reason. A wall would be symbolic of a win for the right. Can’t have that.

What goes around comes around.

 

[Engineer]

The Repubiclans won’t capitulate because their constituents want the wall. The actual powers that be don’t want it, but the R voters sure as hell do. My question throughout the thread has always been why would the Dems dig in their heels to prevent a border wall. Why this. "It’s a waste of money" doesn’t seem like an adequate answer tbh.

Because their constituents don't want a wall and it doesn't matter the reason....they don't want it, period. Seems like an adequate answer tbh.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Because their constituents don't want a wall and it doesn't matter the reason....they don't want it, period. Seems like an adequate answer tbh.

I guess it does. "Just because" seems fine to me too. I guess let’s just see where this goes shall we.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Mexico pony up the dough yet?

 

[Engineer]

Mexico pony up the dough yet?

Didn't you get the memo? Cheeto official says that the US can't spend Mexico money on the wall. Has to come from the US Treasury. Wow, who knew.

 

[Engineer]

I guess it does. "Just because" seems fine to me too. I guess let’s just see where this goes shall we.

I feel your concern.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Didn't you get the memo? Cheeto official says that the US can't spend Mexico money on the wall. Has to come from the US Treasury. Wow, who knew.

Wuh whaaat? Liar in Chief lied? Gosh.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It seems the circular conversation has been exhausted if out comes "concern". Cheers I’m out, at least until new developments occur.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But you know deep down nothing will happen. All of us want justice done. I want Mueller to come out with the truth, lay it out there, indict anyone guilty of anything, convict and send them to jail. If Trump is guilty of what he’s accused lock him up. You know that won’t happen. Some bs about "intent" or something like that perhaps. These people don’t go by the same laws you and I do. What’s Bush doing nowadays?

What US crime did Bush commit? None. Trump was named by the SDNY as directing crimes. Then there's NY and our AG does not play games. There's currently actions against Trump and his family with his theft of charity funds and fraud. Then we get to the Trump organization and on and on.

Trump will have no one to protect him against the NY AG, no amount of money will save him.

I know deep down that something must happen and who will stop it? No one unless Cuomo himself inserts himself and saves Trump, unlikely.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...omise/1397/build-wall-and-make-mexico-pay-it/

Trump has been threatening to shutdown the government over the wall for as long as he's been prez. What a joker.

 

[ivwshane]

No I’m questioning why this issue is where you dig your heels in and say no. I honk the wall is a stupid idea by why is that the thing to shut the government over. To me it doesn’t seem worth it

I'll try to explain this to you as best as I can but I'm pretty sure its a pointless endeavor.

The Republicans have used the threat of shutting down the government repeatedly to get what they want instead of compromising and negotiating in good faith (something you claim to want). They are actively destroying how our government is supposed to work and you are unwittingly encouraging it.

Threatening a shutdown to get what you want is no way to run a democracy and neither is using impeachment as a political tool.