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Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

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Haven’t read the rest of the rest of the thread but has anyone answered why this is such an issue? Why dig your feet in the sand being against a wall? Personally I’m against it because I don’t think it will be very effective but I don’t give a frick if they build it. Not worth shutting down the government (for either side). Why so anti-wall? The arguement doesn’t seem to be from the left that we shouldn’t build it because it’s ineffective, so what is the arguement?
 
UglyCasanova said:
Haven’t read the rest of the rest of the thread but has anyone answered why this is such an issue? Why dig your feet in the sand being against a wall? Personally I’m against it because I don’t think it will be very effective but I don’t give a frick if they build it. Not worth shutting down the government (for either side). Why so anti-wall? The arguement doesn’t seem to be from the left that we shouldn’t build it because it’s ineffective, so what is the arguement?
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It's like bunkers in Albania- a complete waste of resources driven by defective thinking.
 
Jhhnn said:
It's like bunkers in Albania- a complete waste of resources driven by defective thinking.
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I completely agree it’s a waste of resources but it’s what a large segment of America wants. There’s a LOT of wasted resources in the government. Why is this the one that causes you to dig up your heels in and cause a government shutdown?
 
UglyCasanova said:
I completely agree it’s a waste of resources but it’s what a large segment of America wants. There’s a LOT of wasted resources in the government. Why is this the one that causes you to dig up your heels in and cause a government shutdown?
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A large segment of America wants Single Payer UHC. How about a trade?
 
UglyCasanova said:
I completely agree it’s a waste of resources but it’s what a large segment of America wants. There’s a LOT of wasted resources in the government. Why is this the one that causes you to dig up your heels in and cause a government shutdown?
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Huh?!...A "large" segment of the public wants this wall?!..You got any facts to back that up?..A large segment of the population wants more/improved border security.

It should be pointed out that building a wall and keeping immigrants out are different things. The wall is a bridge to nowhere. It's a big expensive thing that has nearly zero value. Stopping illegal immigrants means arresting business owners. Trump is, naturally, disinclined to do that.
 
Indus said:
Why is it the Democrats have to compromise and find a solution for every fucking problem the right creates?

Fuck em. Let em have a 2 year shutdown.
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Because that’s how politics work. The no compromise / hold true to ideology push started with Newt and become a staple of DC politics ever since. Which in my opinion is not a good thing. You think he border wall is such a waste of money that it’s worth a 2 year shutdown? Do you feel as passionately about other government wastes of money? Why not?
 
UglyCasanova said:
Because that’s how politics work. The no compromise / hold true to ideology push started with Newt and become a staple of DC politics ever since. Which in my opinion is not a good thing. You think he border wall is such a waste of money that it’s worth a 2 year shutdown? Do you feel as passionately about other government wastes of money? Why not?
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We’re verging on must fund the wall because of secondhand smoke territory here.
 
UglyCasanova said:
Because that’s how politics work. The no compromise / hold true to ideology push started with Newt and become a staple of DC politics ever since. Which in my opinion is not a good thing. You think he border wall is such a waste of money that it’s worth a 2 year shutdown? Do you feel as passionately about other government wastes of money? Why not?
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If they want money, I want them to impeach kavanaugh and trump. Then they can have the wall. But we know that will never happen so the wall will never happen.
 
Indus said:
impeach kavanaugh
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Wut? Impeach him? Lay it the premise for me, what would he be impeached for. I don’t know the mechanism but I’m assuming congress would have to come together to vote for an impeachment, what would these Congress critters use as their basis. And do you really truly think the Dems in power would do that? The Kavanaugh fiasco was a black eye for he Dems, do they want to revisit?
 
UglyCasanova said:
Wut? Impeach him? Lay it the premise for me, what would he be impeached for. I don’t know the mechanism but I’m assuming congress would have to come together to vote for an impeachment, what would these Congress critters use as their basis. And do you really truly think the Dems in power would do that? The Kavanaugh fiasco was a black eye for he Dems, do they want to revisit?
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Are you still saying Dr Ford facts are in dispute?
 
UglyCasanova said:
Am I wrong? Does Trump winning the presidency with a big campaign promise of a border wall not support the idea that a large segment of the population is for it?
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Only Trump's base is strongly in favor of building a wall. Democrats and independents are both solidly against it. Why would Democrats want to compromise on something that only Trump's base will like? A large segment of the total population might be for it, but it's not a majority, and it's certainly not a large segment of potential Democrat voters.
 
cfenton said:
Only Trump's base is strongly in favor of building a wall. Democrats and independents are both solidly against it. Why would Democrats want to compromise on something that only Trump's base will like? A large segment of the total population might be for it, but it's not a majority, and it's certainly not a large segment of potential Democrat voters.
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I’m not sure you understand the concept of a compromise then.
 
UglyCasanova said:
Am I wrong? Does Trump winning the presidency with a big campaign promise of a border wall not support the idea that a large segment of the population is for it?
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Considering he won with a minority of the votes, even if 100% of the people that voted for him supported a border wall he still wouldn't have a large segment of the population.
 
UglyCasanova said:
Haven’t read the rest of the rest of the thread but has anyone answered why this is such an issue? Why dig your feet in the sand being against a wall? Personally I’m against it because I don’t think it will be very effective but I don’t give a frick if they build it. Not worth shutting down the government (for either side). Why so anti-wall? The arguement doesn’t seem to be from the left that we shouldn’t build it because it’s ineffective, so what is the arguement?
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Mr. Trump-before he became a minority elected President-made his promise quite clear literally hundreds of times-MEXICO WAS GOING TO PAY FOR THE WALL. The ace negotiator also claimed he would get them to agree to pay within hours after he took office. Guess what? Trump flat out lied, hundreds of times on this subject alone.

The Trump Wall is a huge boondoggle-an enormous expense and diversion of resources that WILL NOT WORK.

If Trump loyalists feel so strongly about the Trump (TM) Wall, and aren't concerned that Mexico isn't going to pay for it, and don't care at all about the private property rights the federal government will have to trample upon to get the rights to build this joke, then they can pay for it themselves. There is a gofundme page active, feel free to throw your money away there.

This is yet one more example of Trump's grandstanding and 180 degree changes. Thursday, after the House voted and senators and Congressmen left for home upon the assurance Trump would sign the bill, he reneged. He's been demanding this shutdown for several months-probably as a diversion to his mounting legal problems. It's time to stand up to this pretender.
 
VRAMdemon said:
Huh?!...A "large" segment of the public wants this wall?!..You got any facts to back that up?..A large segment of the population wants more/improved border security.

It should be pointed out that building a wall and keeping immigrants out are different things. The wall is a bridge to nowhere. It's a big expensive thing that has nearly zero value. Stopping illegal immigrants means arresting business owners. Trump is, naturally, disinclined to do that.
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How would he get housekeepers and kitchen help.
 
UglyCasanova said:
I’m not sure you understand the concept of a compromise then.
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Certainly Trump doesn't. I mean, this is the guy who thought he'd give the Democrats an "out" by rephrasing the wall as "steel slats..." and revealed that tactic on national television. (Not that the Dems were likely to fall for it regardless.)

Besides, what kind of compromise is possible here? You can't build half the wall, and Trump wouldn't support a virtual wall. And it'd be horrific to allow the construction of such an inhumane, ecologically damaging, expensive and ineffective structure just so the Democrats appear to make a compromise. This is the kind of thing you make an absolute stand on.
 
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