Release the Krak... err FISA Memo!

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Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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I'm hearing this is a partisan scam by some. Mueller is a Republican, he was appointed by a Republican, Rosenstein. How the hell can his investigation be considered a partisan scam? What is partisan about Republicans investigating another Republican? I've never heard of a partisan attack on someone in the same party.

Oh it's a partisan scam alright. It's just desperate muddy the water attempt by an administration and complicit toadies enabling them to try and spread as much misinformation and confusion as possible. They know their gullible base is easily riled by conspiracy theories and duped by false narratives and will go out and continue to spread the manure for them.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
136
I'm hearing this is a partisan scam by some. Mueller is a Republican, he was appointed by a Republican, Rosenstein. How the hell can his investigation be considered a partisan scam? What is partisan about Republicans investigating another Republican? I've never heard of a partisan attack on someone in the same party.

It is kind of amazing that Trump is claiming his own appointees are engaging in a conspiracy to depose him. Even if he wasn’t lying, which he is, wouldn’t that make him utterly incompetent?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,623
48,179
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I'm hearing this is a partisan scam by some. Mueller is a Republican, he was appointed by a Republican, Rosenstein. How the hell can his investigation be considered a partisan scam? What is partisan about Republicans investigating another Republican? I've never heard of a partisan attack on someone in the same party.

Rosenstein was appointed as a US Attorney by GWB and confirmed unanimously by a Republican controlled congress.

But liberal conspiracy and all that.
 

akenbennu

Senior member
Jul 24, 2005
775
351
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It is kind of amazing that Trump is claiming his own appointees are engaging in a conspiracy to depose him. Even if he wasn’t lying, which he is, wouldn’t that make him utterly incompetent?

I think you're assuming a level of deductive reasoning that may not exist for some people.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
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Rosenstein was appointed as a US Attorney by GWB and confirmed unanimously by a Republican controlled congress.

But liberal conspiracy and all that.

Uhmm, more importantly he was also appointed Deputy Attorney General by Donald Trump.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,623
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Uhmm, more importantly he was also appointed Deputy Attorney General by Donald Trump.

I thought that was covered in a previous post but yeah.

Anybody who doesn't view this whole effort as barely concealed political expediency on behalf of the President is either stupid or pushing their own agenda.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
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I think you're assuming a level of deductive reasoning that may not exist for some people.

Nah, it’s there, it’s just buried under a pile of tribal identity. I’m very confident that if you removed the names and partisan affiliation or, even more tellingly, replaces Trump with Hillary Clinton in this story conservatives would suddenly rediscover their patriotic virtue.

I mean imagine if Clinton had fired the head of the FBI for not pledging personal loyalty to her and then when a special counsel was appointed had Democrats in Congress release classified material, misleadingly edited to make her appear the victim of a right wing conspiracy in order to undermine the investigation. Can anyone...ANYONE on here say with a straight face that say, DSF would have the same position? Of course not. Conservatives would already be moving for impeachment and we all know it.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,031
2,886
136
I mean imagine if Clinton had fired the head of the FBI for not pledging personal loyalty to her and then when a special counsel was appointed had Democrats in Congress release classified material, misleadingly edited to make her appear the victim of a right wing conspiracy in order to undermine the investigation. Can anyone...ANYONE on here say with a straight face that say, DSF would have the same position? Of course not. Conservatives would already be moving for impeachment and we all know it.

The degree to which this narrative sound horrifyingly rotten really underscores to me how much Trump has moved the goalposts and emotionally normalized such actions when emanating from him. Jeez.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,904
6,787
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Something my wife has always said: you know when someone's cheating on you when they start accusing you of cheating on them.
This is the primary reason why in almost 20 years of posting here I have said little about who I am and have not shared so many things I otherwise would have wanted to. I have been accused of everything under the sun and described a thousand ways that can have its origins only in just what your wife describes. The thief fears being robbed, the liar that everything is a lie and so on right down the line. To point fingers is to confess to that about yourself you were taught makes you worthless. What we point at is what we fear and we create what we fear. We live is a state of sleep, unaware of what we do. Jesus came to preach to sinners, the meek, because their egos had been damaged beyond the ability to play that game. The sinners shame leaves nothing to hide. There is a part of every person perhaps deeply buried, that nevertheless knows the real truth. The truth is know to those who know it. There is nowhere self deceivers can really hide.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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Nunes admits that the memo was altered before going to the White House-

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/house-intelligence-transcript/index.html

The whole "we can't take testimony from the people we're investigating" routine is cleverly phrased, as well. He denies the FBI the right to confront their accusers.

None of it is right. None of it is intended to reveal the truth but rather to hide it. Anybody who falls for it should be ashamed of themselves.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
136
The degree to which this narrative sound horrifyingly rotten really underscores to me how much Trump has moved the goalposts and emotionally normalized such actions when emanating from him. Jeez.

It is absolutely insane. At this point it seems highly likely to me that Mueller's report will detail acts that are equal to or substantially worse than Watergate. Back when Watergate happened it caused a wave of national revulsion and caused the only presidential resignation in history. This time I imagine not much comes from it. That's how big the mistake America made in 2016 is.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,904
6,787
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Lame projection. You'll find no audience here for your crap, find another forum to troll.

Feeling the need for a safe place I see. I for one welcome his posts. He is morally terrified that democrats want to destroy the world and I would like him to express all of that fear that he can. It is far better expressed than suppressed and he is so convinced he is right your contempt doesn't deter him. Naturally, I also welcome you expressing yourself also. I think it is possible to hear people, sympathize with the pain they feel, and not necessarily agree with all of their opinions as to where the pain is sourced.

Republicans are terrified of democrats seeing them as lacking morals, and democrats are terrified that the fear republicans feel with destroy our democratic institutions. We don't want them destroying our institutions because of their fear nor do want to destroy our institutions of free expression to save them. You either believe in what makes America great or you don't, and that applies to the left and the right.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,904
6,787
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It is absolutely insane. At this point it seems highly likely to me that Mueller's report will detail acts that are equal to or substantially worse than Watergate. Back when Watergate happened it caused a wave of national revulsion and caused the only presidential resignation in history. This time I imagine not much comes from it. That's how big the mistake America made in 2016 is.
The problem started several hundred thousand years ago, most likely, when we began to use language to create altered realities. The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. Language divided unity into individual things and made possible the invention of the self and the other.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
136
The problem started several hundred thousand years ago, most likely, when we began to use language to create altered realities. The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. Language divided unity into individual things and made possible the invention of the self and the other.

Well we were able to overcome the othering of people in the 1970's, but I'm not so sure about now. I more tend to blame the internet and the atomization of media. In some ways it's great that people have so many options to choose from. What that seems to have generally led to however is people only reading what they agree with and conservatives in particular have retreated into an ever more extreme media bubble.

I'm consistently amazed by the insane things that some conservatives say on here and I'm very confident that they are smart, rational people in other aspects of their lives. I don't mean points of policy where two people can reasonably disagree, I mean pants-on-head, delusional conspiracy theories.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,031
2,886
136
It is absolutely insane. At this point it seems highly likely to me that Mueller's report will detail acts that are equal to or substantially worse than Watergate. Back when Watergate happened it caused a wave of national revulsion and caused the only presidential resignation in history. This time I imagine not much comes from it. That's how big the mistake America made in 2016 is.

Trump really is a master of emotional appeal. It's no surprise to me that he won the election and that the polls missed a ton of Trump voters who were either unaware of their emotional reasoning or ashamed by it. It's also amazing to me to consider possible explanations for his capacity to align emotions to him even among his detractors.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,222
55,760
136
Trump really is a master of emotional appeal. It's no surprise to me that he won the election and that the polls missed a ton of Trump voters who were either unaware of their emotional reasoning or ashamed by it. It's also amazing to me to consider possible explanations for his capacity to align emotions to him even among his detractors.

I don't buy the 'I knew Trump would win' arguments very much. Clinton won the popular vote by roughly the same amount George W. Bush won by in 2004 and only through the unique workings of the electoral college did Trump pull it out by about 70,000 votes between 3 states. As for the polls themselves, they were quite close on a national scale but in some states they missed pretty badly. To me that points to problems modeling turnout in restricted areas, not missing tons of Trump voters. I have not yet found a person who claimed to predict Trump's victory do so on the basis of a significant popular vote loss but electoral college win.

That being said I do think his ability to appeal to the emotions of certain segments of society helped compensate for his other manifest shortcomings.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,668
10,389
136
Nunes admits that the memo was altered before going to the White House-

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/house-intelligence-transcript/index.html

The whole "we can't take testimony from the people we're investigating" routine is cleverly phrased, as well. He denies the FBI the right to confront their accusers.

None of it is right. None of it is intended to reveal the truth but rather to hide it. Anybody who falls for it should be ashamed of themselves.

"The changes are not cosmetic and almost all of them are unrelated to concerns about sensitive information. Instead, they try to water down some of the Majority's assertions," the [Democrat committee] official said.
HAAAHAHHAAAA!

WOW that's rich! So Nunes is now worried about being caught in a lie and secretly attempted to walk back some of the memo's assertions, and when caught claims Dems/FBI requested it. Dems are like "fuck you you piece of shit, you wrote it, you release it, YOU OWN IT!"

Nunes is the lowest piece of shit.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,031
2,886
136
I don't buy the 'I knew Trump would win' arguments very much. Clinton won the popular vote by roughly the same amount George W. Bush won by in 2004 and only through the unique workings of the electoral college did Trump pull it out by about 70,000 votes between 3 states. As for the polls themselves, they were quite close on a national scale but in some states they missed pretty badly. To me that points to problems modeling turnout in restricted areas, not missing tons of Trump voters. I have not yet found a person who claimed to predict Trump's victory do so on the basis of a significant popular vote loss but electoral college win.

That being said I do think his ability to appeal to the emotions of certain segments of society helped compensate for his other manifest shortcomings.

Oh I'm not arguing I knew he would win. I certainly didn't. This is (late even) purely retrospective analysis.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,904
6,787
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Well we were able to overcome the othering of people in the 1970's, but I'm not so sure about now. I more tend to blame the internet and the atomization of media. In some ways it's great that people have so many options to choose from. What that seems to have generally led to however is people only reading what they agree with and conservatives in particular have retreated into an ever more extreme media bubble.

I'm consistently amazed by the insane things that some conservatives say on here and I'm very confident that they are smart, rational people in other aspects of their lives. I don't mean points of policy where two people can reasonably disagree, I mean pants-on-head, delusional conspiracy theories.
Look, this is an uncomfortable subject for me to deal with. I believe I can explain it but it is the same explanation I have been giving for almost 20 years, the same explanation I have said as many times as I have said it also that nobody wants to hear it and that they don't want to know they don't want to hear it. It's not exactly fun for me either. It reminds me of the story of when the scorpion was asked why we never see him in winter and replied, is my reception so great in summer that I'd want to be seen in the winter too. If I am pricked, will I not bleed? That reminds me of the story of the fox that was found near a pond covered in blood sucking flies that some generous soul decided to rescue by brushing them away, only to have the fox plead they be left in place because all of them were full of blood and would be replaced by ones still hungry.

Where was I.

Yes, OK. I was going to tell you about being in group therapy and watching people relive childhood traumatic events, stuff like falling back on the floor and writhing around on the ground trying to protect themselves from imaginary blows their parents had delivered years ago in the past, or watching somebody experience a real psychotic break and go quite crazy, an event that I would describe as a massive acceleration in associative thinking driven by terror.

Fear causes the brain to associate madly, skipping from one idea that connects somehow to the next always downward into some negative feeling, You can start anywhere and go straight to hell. It is like a bad drug trip, as that is more or less the same thing with a different accelerant.

Well, fear is actually the attempt not to feel anything, it is the fear of feeling and it is feeling that makes us alive, so fear is a little death, a desire to freeze and not feel anything. Fear is thought, the process of association energized and accelerated by the panic state.

Now we come to what we are exposed to on a daily basis via the media, a steady diet of things about which we can associate, a barrage of scary scenarios courtesy of the media. Look at this terrible disaster and feel good by buying a Fiat. We are built to detect danger in the environment and we are easily magnetized by it.

We live is a state of constant stress and my theory is that it affects the size as in exercise lever of the amygdala. I believe that people exposed to constant stress and fear are turned into conservatives by constant stimulation of that part of the brain. I think it's also why meditation and enlightenment seem to be related.

So we have a constant reminder of danger all around us via the media that leads to obsessive thinking that leads to the threat of connecting to our original learning of fear, the terror of the withdrawal of love and support as children because we only worth loving if we behave and abide by the norms.

The more worthless we were made to feel, the greater life is threatening and the more extreme we become in protecting ourselves.

As I believe these thing I describe here, I do not find conservatives to be amazingly insane. I just find them to be less aware of how insane WE ALL ARE than I am. And when I say I am more aware I mean that in an abstract sense, that what I describe makes perfect logical sense. I do not mean that I do not suffer from the same condition. Knowing how you are doesn't change how you are, but it can change how to react to those facts. What, for example, is the value in denying you feel worthless, if you actually know that you do? Knowing you are an alcoholic, seems to be to be a better place to be than being one and being in denial. I don't have much to offer other than that, I think.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,904
6,787
126
Trump really is a master of emotional appeal. It's no surprise to me that he won the election and that the polls missed a ton of Trump voters who were either unaware of their emotional reasoning or ashamed by it. It's also amazing to me to consider possible explanations for his capacity to align emotions to him even among his detractors.
Just to put more meat on what I just said, I proclaimed to myself that Trump would be the republican candidate the day he announced. I also at that moment knew he was going to be a massive challenge for Clinton. How did I do this. It was easy for me. I am an American through and through, raised in a conservative republican family and witness to all the hideous secret bigotries that go with being American and all the arrogance and exceptionalism that goes along with that. Trump, in short, appealed to everything I actually love about myself, but pretend to despise. He is me and what I would be were it not for shame.

My mother told me to be honest to everyone's great regret.