Reinstitute the Draft now...

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
Its not to hard to figure out.
Were over there fvcking up thier way of life, so there doing what they must to stop it.

I dont condone senseless violence either, but i also understand we started it, they didnt just decide to start doing all of this for the fvck of it

But im glad you can catergorize the entire Middle East and feel so confident about your ASSUMPTION.

O and this:

I don't kill other people, I don't force my religion on them at gunpoint, and I'll never understand those that do.

What the fvck do you think the US is doing over there right now?
(switch religion with way of life)

Ok, one at a time...

1. I never claimed to support our presence over there (that's your ASSUMPTION), in fact I'm arguing that we should get the fvck out and let them blow each other up. So I'm totally with you there. We cannot force democracy at gunpoint anymore than they can force their ridiculous beliefs on us at gunpoint. And I don't believe they're capable of our style of democracy at this point...that's for them to work out in their own time.

2. We did not "start" it, and you're naive beyond belief (or purposely burying your head in the sand) if you think that, or else you've never read a history book. Crack one open, see how the Crusades and Reconquista began, and then get back to me. This militant Muslim vs. infidel bvllshyt has been going on for centuries, and that's not my opinion, its sheer historical fact.

3. Their "way of life" sucked before we got there. Not everything is relative or equally valuable, multiculturalism and PCness not withstanding. For instance, equality of the sexes and races is BETTER. No honor killings is BETTER. Separation of Church and State is BETTER. We have plenty of religious fanatics in our own country too, but they're not cutting off heads, and most of us laugh at them. Not equallly valuable, but BETTER. Sorry.

4. I don't agree that its ok to cut off heads with the excuse that "they're doing what they have to to stop it". That's utter bvllshyt. There is no excuse. I don't accept that, I won't even try to understand it, and I wish people like that didn't even exist. The world would be a much better place.

5. We seem to agree on "senseless violence" and the fact that both of us would rather avoid it inflicting it on others if possible. Cheers!

6. You are absolutely correct that I should not let my disgust cause me to "categorize" the entire Middle East based on the actions of some of its people. But let the other people there finally fvcking do something about it! If they're really not all like that, then its high time the ones who aren't stood up to be counted...and I don't see that happening often enough.

 

[piasabird]

A draft will just force a bunch of misfits and troublemakers to be in the military that dont want to be there. Unless you are volunteering to go first I dont see the point. Not everyone gets along with military life.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: palehorse74

What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

/discuss

I would cease paying any taxes, begin the campaign of civil disobedience while seeking removal of all associated politicians, stock up on supplies in case of violence and various other opposition actions.

I can't even be drafted, nor can my child (being a female), but I'd gladly give my life if necessary to oppose a draft.

I would discuss the logic and benefits of military training for the citizen, but it would be lost on you.

Not lost on me, but your argument would be lost against me. I already served my time, during war btw. I simply have more knowledge of the subject than you, and a more reasonable argument.

No offense.

None taken, but I'm not convinced. There are all sorts of reasonable arguments and they have all been argued here. No one went away with anything but a reenforcement of what they started with. What is the point in rehashing the same old stuff?

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
Its not to hard to figure out.
Were over there fvcking up thier way of life, so there doing what they must to stop it.

I dont condone senseless violence either, but i also understand we started it, they didnt just decide to start doing all of this for the fvck of it

But im glad you can catergorize the entire Middle East and feel so confident about your ASSUMPTION.

O and this:

I don't kill other people, I don't force my religion on them at gunpoint, and I'll never understand those that do.

What the fvck do you think the US is doing over there right now?
(switch religion with way of life)

Ok, one at a time...

1. I never claimed to support our presence over there (that's your ASSUMPTION), in fact I'm arguing that we should get the fvck out and let them blow each other up. So I'm totally with you there. We cannot force democracy at gunpoint anymore than they can force their ridiculous beliefs on us at gunpoint. And I don't believe they're capable of our style of democracy at this point...that's for them to work out in their own time.

2. We did not "start" it, and you're naive beyond belief (or purposely burying your head in the sand) if you think that, or else you've never read a history book. Crack one open, see how the Crusades and Reconquista began, and then get back to me. This militant Muslim vs. infidel bvllshyt has been going on for centuries, and that's not my opinion, its sheer historical fact. Ignore it if you choose, but that doesn't make it less true.

3. Their "way of life" sucked before we got there. Not everything is relative or equally valuable, sometimes there are hard truths, multiculturalism and PCness not withstanding. For instance, equality of the sexes and races is BETTER. No honor killings is BETTER. Separation of Church and State is BETTER. We have plenty of religious fanatics in our own country too, but they're not cutting off heads, and most of us laugh at them. Not equallly valuable, but BETTER. Sorry.

4. I do not agree that its ok to cut off heads on TV with the excuse that "they're doing what they have to to stop it". That's utter bvllshyt. There is no excuse. I do not accept that, I will not even try to understand it, and I would rather people like that didn't even exist. The world would be a much better place.

5. We seem to agree on "senseless violence" and the fact that both of us would rather avoid it inflicting it on others if possible. Cheers!

6. You are absolutely correct that I should not let my disgust cause me to "categorize" the entire Middle East based on the actions of some of its people. But let the other people there finally fvcking do something about it! If they're really not all like that, then its high time the ones who aren't stood up to be counted...and I don't see that happening often enough.

Wow! Someone on ATOT standing up for something!

I would personally love it if it was reinstated. I'm 21 and finishing my associates' degree and would most likely be one of the first to go.

I don't think we should be in Iraq anymore, but I don't have the perfect plan for pulling out, either, so I won't go around screaming about it. We were right to unseat Sadaam and now we're reconstructing like we knew we'd need to. I'd go because I believe the majority of the citizens (who don't have the ability to fight the armed resistance) are benefitting from our actions. People are people, Muslims or not and they need to be free. I don't agree with their beliefs in any way but I still care about people.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Condor

The Bush administration only understand strength and fear. Logic and reason has failed for 1400 years. Time to give up thinking of them like other people you know.

fixed.

Exactly why we are lucky he is in charge!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
it's very disconcerting to see just how many cowards would run for Canada. This is why I'm glad that I missed the 60's... it sickens me.

It sickened me in the sixties. I refuse to be PC with these lowlife jerks!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

he's lying. he wont leave because he's too busy enjoying all of the fruits of capitalism... but he'll never admit it! If he did so, it would shatter his otherwise liberal facade!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: palehorse74
it's very disconcerting to see just how many cowards would run for Canada. This is why I'm glad that I missed the 60's... it sickens me.

What sickens me are little pukes like you that cheerlead for war, but sit there at your computer while others die. You're worse than a coward.

"I'd rather lose with truth than win with lies." Quite the statement. Obviously, you would shrink from that if the losing involved your death or the death of someone near and dear to you. I bet you would lie to get out of a serious traffic ticket if you thought it would work for sure. I notice that you are sitting at a keyboard!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I will fight for a just cause, not for lies.

seems mighty selfish of you to have the audacity to claim that you know all that is righteous and just.

So you would run away then?

that's good to know. heck, maybe we should establish the draft just to weed out those who would run to Canada. Then, just before sending those who stayed over to the ME, we would say "just kidding, you passed the test. you're not a coward. go home!" lol... meanwhile, all of the panzies who sprinted over the border will be prevented from re-entering, and we would be much better off.

(It might piss off the Candaians though...DOH!)

The experiment would raise the calibre of the average citizen. lol...

You probably weren't here (ATP&N) for the last presidential campaign. Lots of the same liberals that are posting in this thread stated that if Bush won, they would leave for Canada. Notice that they are still here. There are numerous reasons for that, not the least of which is that the Canadian government wouldn't allow the ones that went so far as to check, a visa! Just so you know how true your: (It might piss off the Candaians though...DOH!) actually is.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want the draft reinstituted so as to provide firsthand experiences for those who would not normally see the situation in the Greater Middle East for what it really is. I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth. The liberal media will never cover the story accurately, so it is time to take more drastic measures to show our countrymen the truth.

It would also be nice to see alot more people get up off their collective lazy arses and actually do something for their great country which provides them with so much prosperity and opportunity. It's about time more people earn their keep and contribute more than carbon dioxide to the greater good.

What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

/discuss

That all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE MIDDLE EAST. Its the last place on earth I want to visit. Religious fanatics, honor killings, beheadings, racism, sexism, just plain fvcking idiot-ism and medieval savagery. I have no wish to get any closer to those people than I am watching the news every night. I don't want to fight them or waste my life trying to drag them into the 19th century. Their culture was more advanced in 1000 AD than it is now...doesn't that tell you something?

I'd much rather we just develop an alternative means of fuel. Then, the only time I'd have to see these people would be in National Geographic where they belong! I'm sorry if that offends some of you, but I'm fvcking tired of the Middle East and everything it stands for and causes.

You may be a liberal, but I do agree with everything in that post. The old "let them eat sand" debate. I avoided going there for 22 years in the Foreign Service just because I had two daughters and a wife and didn't agree with the way they treat women.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

he's lying. he wont leave because he's too busy enjoying all of the fruits of capitalism... but he'll never admit it! If he did so, it would shatter his otherwise liberal facade!

True! Having lived in lots of countries, this is the best. I could have retired to anyplace and after having been away for some years, I was glad to return. I get homesick now when I go to the Post Office. The only ones who believe that anyplace is better are the ones who haven't lived both here and there.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

Ahh...the inaccuracies of a bitter person.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Condor
Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

In Canada most of the same channels are available as the states. What is controlled is the pirated satellite box's (which is really barely enforced) And of course this is mainly because of the American companies complaining

American direct-to-home services such as DirecTV and Dish Network may not, and do not knowingly, authorize subscriptions in Canada, as they have not acquired the distribution rights for Canada from programming service providers.

Link

If your helping this guy pirate your breaking the law. I'm pretty sure ignorance of the law is no excuse on either side of the border

In a way you could say Canadian T.V. is more free, since we don't have a crap every time a little tittie is shown on the telly or someone says a bad word
Lot's of Canadian shows deal with some subjects that would never get aired in America

Federal rules bar television and radio stations from airing obscene material and limit sexual content and profanity to late-night hours when children are less likely to watch.

Congress is expected to consider two changes to federal laws: whether to apply the same regulations to cable and satellite broadcasts and a proposal to boost indecency fines from $32,500 per incident to $500,000.

The council's primary targets include an episode of CBS's CSI: Crime Scene Investigation in which there were references to the abuse of a man's private parts as well as the use of profanity during ABC's broadcast of the Live 8 concert in July.

US group protests inaction on TV decency violations

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

he's lying. he wont leave because he's too busy enjoying all of the fruits of capitalism... but he'll never admit it! If he did so, it would shatter his otherwise liberal facade!

What fruits are those? Paying a few less taxes I suppose, of course that is highly debatable and varies state to state. I guess you would have to factor in our free health care vs the American way, with that too

Name me 3 more fruits?

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: palehorse74

he's lying. he wont leave because he's too busy enjoying all of the fruits of capitalism... but he'll never admit it! If he did so, it would shatter his otherwise liberal facade!

What fruits are those? Paying a few less taxes I suppose, of course that is highly debatable and varies state to state. I guess you would have to factor in our free health care vs the American way, with that too

Name me 3 more fruits?

Bush, Rowe and Cheney












SHUX

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
What fruits are those? Paying a few less taxes I suppose, of course that is highly debatable and varies state to state. I guess you would have to factor in our free health care vs the American way, with that too

Name me 3 more fruits?

Bush, Rowe and Cheney












SHUX

I think you meant Rove, Mehlman, and Gannon.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: palehorse74
it's very disconcerting to see just how many cowards would run for Canada. This is why I'm glad that I missed the 60's... it sickens me.

What sickens me are little pukes like you that cheerlead for war, but sit there at your computer while others die. You're worse than a coward.

"I'd rather lose with truth than win with lies." Quite the statement. Obviously, you would shrink from that if the losing involved your death or the death of someone near and dear to you. I bet you would lie to get out of a serious traffic ticket if you thought it would work for sure. I notice that you are sitting at a keyboard!

Big difference boy. I'm not wishing men to die at this keyboard.
[/quote]

 

[BriGy86]

what about the people that get no gratification from going out of their way to "help" others?

to them all they are doing is putting their life on the line to save some douche bags that wont appreciate their service anyway

 

[BBond]

If Bush reinstituted conscription in America he would lose all of his "supporters" overnight.

:laugh:

All these clowns here screaming their support for the war in Iraq would be screaming for his head.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Not you, Palehorse, you're already in. Too late to talk any sense to you.

I'm talking about all these keyboard jockies here who, like Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney, would rather switch than fight.

 

[imported_Condor]

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Condor
Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

In Canada most of the same channels are available as the states. What is controlled is the pirated satellite box's (which is really barely enforced) And of course this is mainly because of the American companies complaining

American direct-to-home services such as DirecTV and Dish Network may not, and do not knowingly, authorize subscriptions in Canada, as they have not acquired the distribution rights for Canada from programming service providers.

Link

If your helping this guy pirate your breaking the law. I'm pretty sure ignorance of the law is no excuse on either side of the border

In a way you could say Canadian T.V. is more free, since we don't have a crap every time a little tittie is shown on the telly or someone says a bad word
Lot's of Canadian shows deal with some subjects that would never get aired in America

Federal rules bar television and radio stations from airing obscene material and limit sexual content and profanity to late-night hours when children are less likely to watch.

Congress is expected to consider two changes to federal laws: whether to apply the same regulations to cable and satellite broadcasts and a proposal to boost indecency fines from $32,500 per incident to $500,000.

The council's primary targets include an episode of CBS's CSI: Crime Scene Investigation in which there were references to the abuse of a man's private parts as well as the use of profanity during ABC's broadcast of the Live 8 concert in July.

US group protests inaction on TV decency violations

I hardly think paying for the equipment and paying for the programming is piracy. Recieving US programming north of the border without paying a Canadian for it seems to be the rub. The fellow thinks that Canadian programming stinks. While I lived there for four years and enjoyed the programming, I did get a little tired of watching Winter Olympics, ice skating and hockey full time.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: palehorse74

he's lying. he wont leave because he's too busy enjoying all of the fruits of capitalism... but he'll never admit it! If he did so, it would shatter his otherwise liberal facade!

What fruits are those? Paying a few less taxes I suppose, of course that is highly debatable and varies state to state. I guess you would have to factor in our free health care vs the American way, with that too

Name me 3 more fruits?

What do you know about Revenue Canadia and capitol gains taxes?

 

[Agrooreo]

First thing I would think is damn that sucks for everyone else. Wow that would really suck, if you dont wanna join and they make you. Almost suck as bad as wanting to join and not being able to because of the refraction of your eyeballs which is what happened to me, or a wrist surgery when you were 9yrs old like with my best friend. For us it wouldn't matter cause we aren't going anywhere, but for everyone else that would pretty much suck. Never know how something that really pisses you off at one point in your life can come back to be a blessing one day.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

Funny, I just shipped a sat reciever to a Canadian. Why, you ask? Because the Canadian government does control what can be recieved in country and they want to watch more than that. You'll enjoy living there. You left yet?

Just like the American government doesn't want you to smoke Cuban cigars LOL. What a weak example. The US/Canada are basically the same thing and to somehow act like the US is superior because of a CRTC ruling and the Canadian satellite lobby is ridiculous.