Reinstitute the Draft now...

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: kongs

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth.

2100+ have spread the truth loudly enough for the thinking Americans. Kthxbye

more than 2500 died on the first day of D-day in a mission to accomplish a greater good.

That is called sacrifice, and the men and women of the 40's were willing to do so. They were patriots and heroes, all of them. Their entire generation knew that we should not take our Country for granted, and they commited to sacrificing whatever was needed to end the atrocities in Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Less that 2500 in 4 years of fighting is hardly too large a price to pay for what will hopefully become a stable ME within a few decades. I personally see this mission as righteous as the fight against fascism in the 1930's and 1940's.

Wow I hope not that long!

that's very typical of the "I want it here and now" generation... but yes, it will take decades unless the libs convince us to pull out oo early, thus making all progress null and void.

 

[conjur]

That's what days on-end of playing RPGs will do to the brain.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Not on US soil perhaps, but you have very little understanding about Saddam's actual role in the terrorist underworld... Most of which is still classified, but someday you will understand.

If you'd like, I could link you to some books that you probably wont find on moveon.org... books by insiders, agents, etc, that will paint the real picture for you in terms of Saddam's direct role in that underworld... send me a PM. all i ask is your willingness to be openminded for once as you read the other side of the issue from those who have been there.

So a lowly soldier like you knows all the secret stuff that Saddam did? It's classified but you know it? But Colin Powell and the administartion didn't and had to resort to humiliating themselves in front of the world? You remind me of Kevin Cline in "A Fish Called Wanda" who was telling everyone "I'm a CIA agent".

I think I'm starting to agree that you're a 14-years old playing BF2 and transplanting fantasy into reality.

 

[palehorse]

Why do you people insist upon questioning my integrity and character every other post simply because I disagree with you?! Where the hell did you guys learn how to debate? I have no reason to lie to you about my personal history or experiences, so why are every one of you questioning them?

it's just...odd.

Someone disagrees with you guys and you get all childish and weird... i bet if I came in here screaming about how much Dubya is ruining the world, then you wouldnt think twice if I told you that I invented fun and walked on the moon!

clowns...

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kongs

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth.

2100+ have spread the truth loudly enough for the thinking Americans. Kthxbye

more than 2500 died on the first day of D-day in a mission to accomplish a greater good.

That is called sacrifice, and the men and women of the 40's were willing to do so. They were patriots and heroes, all of them. Their entire generation knew that we should not take our Country for granted, and they commited to sacrificing whatever was needed to end the atrocities in Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Less that 2500 in 4 years of fighting is hardly too large a price to pay for what will hopefully become a stable ME within a few decades. I personally see this mission as righteous as the fight against fascism in the 1930's and 1940's.

Wow I hope not that long!

that's very typical of the "I want it here and now" generation... but yes, it will take decades unless the libs convince us to pull out oo early, thus making all progress null and void.

But that is where you lose 75% + of the American public. We didn't buy a decades long conflict from the Bush admin, he did a bait and switch. With no public support you can't very well have a war for long ...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kongs

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth.

2100+ have spread the truth loudly enough for the thinking Americans. Kthxbye

more than 2500 died on the first day of D-day in a mission to accomplish a greater good.

That is called sacrifice, and the men and women of the 40's were willing to do so. They were patriots and heroes, all of them. Their entire generation knew that we should not take our Country for granted, and they commited to sacrificing whatever was needed to end the atrocities in Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Less that 2500 in 4 years of fighting is hardly too large a price to pay for what will hopefully become a stable ME within a few decades. I personally see this mission as righteous as the fight against fascism in the 1930's and 1940's.

Wow I hope not that long!

that's very typical of the "I want it here and now" generation... but yes, it will take decades unless the libs convince us to pull out oo early, thus making all progress null and void.

But that is where you lose 75% + of the American public. We didn't buy a decades long conflict from the Bush admin, he did a bait and switch. With no public support you can't very well have a war for long ...

wrong. They have ALWAYS stated that the GWOT will be a very long and drawn-out struggle. I just dont think people realized HOW long when they first heard that. Now it's starting to sink in, and alot of people cant stomach it. Those of us who paid attention have prepared for it, and are willing to stick it out for the betterment of the world as a whole.

My guess is roughly 20 years of hard fighting, and then another 100-200 years of dealing with random cells that pop up. Welcome to the 2nd millenium and a world wherein religious fanatics want you dead. Sucks huh? so be it...

dont worry, someone else will always do the tough dirty work for you. You can sit back and judge them... deal? bah...

once we convince an Islamic cleric to issue a new version of the Koran, one that is editted to resemble a more reasonable approach to nonbelief, then things will start to work out for the better... my guess is that we should see that within the next 10 years or so... well, hopefully. If not, then my preictions of how long it will take may be too conservative...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: fornax

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Not on US soil perhaps, but you have very little understanding about Saddam's actual role in the terrorist underworld... Most of which is still classified, but someday you will understand.

If you'd like, I could link you to some books that you probably wont find on moveon.org... books by insiders, agents, etc, that will paint the real picture for you in terms of Saddam's direct role in that underworld... send me a PM. all i ask is your willingness to be openminded for once as you read the other side of the issue from those who have been there.

So a lowly soldier like you knows all the secret stuff that Saddam did? It's classified but you know it? But Colin Powell and the administartion didn't and had to resort to humiliating themselves in front of the world? You remind me of Kevin Cline in "A Fish Called Wanda" who was telling everyone "I'm a CIA agent".

I think I'm starting to agree that you're a 14-years old playing BF2 and transplanting fantasy into reality.

Sort of flies in the face of what the Propagandist and his admin have been touting of late: that everyone saw the same intelligence. Guess they were hiding some stuff from everyone else.


If you believe him. I, for one, surely don't.

 

[Uhtrinity]

When they tried to sell the Iraq war they claimed something like $40 - $50 billion max, and claimed Iraqi oil would pay for / payback the rest. Also it was claimed that the situation would be resolved in 2 - 3 years. $250 billion and almost 3 years later ....

Mark my words, Iraq will become a battleground for a full scale civil war in the near future and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Just look at what has happened with the Sunnis and shiites, and the Kurds are ready to suceed. This isn't what the American people expected. Bush SR had it right by not rolling into Bagdad at the end of the gulf war, Jr should have listened to that example and his current Generals.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
. This isn't what the American people expected. Bush SR had it right by not rolling into Bagdad at the end of the gulf war, Jr should have listened to that example and his current Generals.

The irony is that the Iraqi people despised us for not finishing the job in 1991. They were angry for 12 years that we left Saddam in power. That is why they are so happy that we actually finished the job this time!

I've seen them asking us if we're going to leave them again. they dont want that.. not yet. They are smart enough to know that would spell disaster for them. They dont want us there forever, but they surely welcome us there until they're ready to do it themselves.. and there are so many among them fighting hard to make Iraq a successful democracy.

That is the truth that those who do not serve will never see. CNN and the NY Times cant afford for you to find out the truth...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
. This isn't what the American people expected. Bush SR had it right by not rolling into Bagdad at the end of the gulf war, Jr should have listened to that example and his current Generals.

The irony is that the Iraqi people despised us for not finishing the job in 1991. They were angry for 12 years that we left Saddam in power. That is why they are so happy that we actually finished the job this time!

I've seen them asking us if we're going to leave them again. they dont want that.. not yet. They are smart enough to know that would spell disaster for them. They dont want us there forever, but they surely welcome us there until they're ready to do it themselves.. and there are so many among them fighting hard to make Iraq a successful democracy.

That is the truth that those who do not serve will never see. CNN and the NY Times cant afford for you to find out the truth...

SOME were unhappy that the US left Saddam in power in 1991. MOST are unhappy with our current presence in Iraq.

And, of course CNN and the Times can't afford for us to know the truth. They'd be reamed by this administration if the truth were broadcast.

 

[Lanyap]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'm all for the draft, but I don't think you have been there. I've seen your posting in the IT securtiy forums going back to 2001, so how it is you are doing this and fighting in Iraq? You were opetruzel@cox.rr.com right? I'm guessing you have military duty from the mid nineties and are now claiming active duty, but you are really a compter geek, IT during the day, BF2 at night.

LOL, yes, I was/am/always will be, a computer geek (and proud of it too!). The difference is that my military experience has all been infantry until just recently when I reclassed 97E (Humint collector). I did so after my return from the ME last year. My civilian career has also shifted toward a similar line of work... one less "computer-oriented" than prior to my trip.

but thanks for noticing! lol...

Why do you people insist upon questioning my integrity and character every other post simply because I disagree with you?! Where the hell did you guys learn how to debate? I have no reason to lie to you about my personal history or experiences, so why are every one of you questioning them?

it's just...odd.

Someone disagrees with you guys and you get all childish and weird... i bet if I came in here screaming about how much Dubya is ruining the world, then you wouldnt think twice if I told you that I invented fun and walked on the moon!

clowns...

Welcome to AT P&N. The anti-conservative, anti-bush, anti-religion, anti-republican and anti-military members have taken over. Anyone coming into P&N these days on the other side of them gets tarred and feathered as you can see. And yes, they will question your integrity and character constantly. They will bait you and try to get you mad so you hurl a personal insult at them. Then you get banned. Their side never gives up. There is an effort underway to rename P&N to BIOB&RM (Blame It On Bush and Republicans Movement) or BM for short .

On Topic, I don't think we need a draft right now, especially not for the reason you want it. The draft would not be a good way to show people whatever good might be coming out of the Iraq situation. It would take more positive reporting to counteract the negative reporting.

 

[datalink7]

As an officer in the US Army, I don't want a draft.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

I agree, however I think a draft may be foolish. You think people are avoiding service now, just wait...

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Unlike some people here, I believe that the OP really did serve (or is serving) in the armed forces...because I know a lot of military folks, and I've met some like him. I'm not going to dodge the draft question (no pun intended), but first I think it's important that I differentiate what I see as the two types of military folks. The first, and most common actually in my experience, is the people who think serving is a great way to help their country and who see it as a unique way to gain some interesting experiences and insight. Then there are the folks, like the OP, who view service as the one and only path to The Truth. Their experiences and service make them better than everyone else, only they have access to the truth, and the rest of us, no matter what we might do, can't join their insight club. It's not that military service is a way to find out something about yourself and the world around you, it's that military service is the ONLY way to find those things.

I'm not just knocking the OP, this actually has a lot to do with what he suggested about the draft. There are many reasons you might want the draft back, but the one that seems to be the focus of this thread is that it's the only way for us lazy, stupid civilians to see "the way things really are"...and it seems quite popular with that second type of military people. In fact, that's the whole premise of the book Starship Troopers (not at ALL like the movie). Robert A. Heinlein, who wrote the book, used to be of the same school of thought as palehorse74...going so far as to suggest only people who have served in the military should be allowed to vote. Later in life, he rejected this school of thinking, for the same reason reinstituting the draft for the reasons palehorse74 suggests is a bad idea.

Serving in the military does indeed give you a perspective, but like all perspectives, it doesn't show you everything. The most common argument in favor of the military perspective is something palehorse74 mentioned several times, seeing the good things your actions do...the people you help. Which is good, but being a set of those boots on the ground robs you of some of the larger perspective. After all, any war isn't black and white, and it's easy to get caught up in rebuilding schools and hunting down terrorists and totally miss the bad things that are going on. In fact, that seems to be a large part of the pro-war arguments of those who serve, the problems in Iraq are dismissed with uplifting stories of rebuilding schools. Great stuff, obviously, but those stories tell us very little about the larger picture. A war must look a lot different up close than it does from back home, and I'm not so sure the up-close view is the more accurate one.

In other words, the flaw with the idea of using the draft to force everyone to see things from the military perspective is that the military perspective is very persuasive, but it's not complete. It offers an interesting view of the world, but it does seem rather unbalanced. I don't trust the viewpoint offered by a group that leans so far to the right...or to the left for that matter, I would have the same problem with forcing everyone in the US to obtain a PhD in a politics or history.

well said, and i respect the element of mature discussion you have brought to the table. Thankyou for that.

That said, I simply believe that military service would add one more frame of reference for those seeking the truth of the matter. I do not believe that they should stop there in their search for answers, but I DO believe that without that tool in their arsenal, they are in fact at a disadvantage in putting all of the pieces together.

So, I dont believe that military service is the ONLY way to see the bigger picture, but I do believe that is one of them. That is the main reason why I continue to study the subject as a civilian. I am trying to come at the subject from every angle, and since I began that quest, I have seen enough from every angle to justify my feelings on, and participation in, the GWOT.

Trust me when I say that I do not have some sort of "jarhead warmonger attitude." In fact, I can't really stand that attitude. If that is how I have come off around here, then I have screwed up in my delivery.

Bottom line: my military experiences added to my understanding of the bigger picture, but were not the only frames of reference.

Here's the problem, we all form our experiences and ideas as individual things...what works well for one person does not work well for others. Military service may be just one more piece of the puzzle for some people, and it may turn them into narrow-minded idiots. Your response to my post seems reasonable enough, but take a look at the rest of your posts in your short time on P&N. You seem violently opposed to any approach to fighting terrorism that doesn't involve punching Nazis in the face. Not literally of course, but you seem to think the only solution is to put even more troops in Iraq, invade Iran, kill anyone who disagrees with our actions...up to an including any liberal Americans, or anyone who disagrees. And you seem convinced that everyone would agree with you if only they were forced to serve in the military.

This isn't about justifying your feelings, this is about forming an intelligent opinion on a complex topic based on all available input. And if we're going to force people to serve in the armed forces, I suggest we force them to take some psychology, political and comparitive religion courses as well as working for a US intelligence agency and serving as a civilian aid worker and for the love of God engaging in some critical thinking exercises. There are a lot of things people leave out of their views, I hardly think military service is the most important one.

Terrorist only understand strength and fear. Logic and reason has failed for 1400 years. Time to give up thinking of them like other people you know.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur
Leave the BS for the playground at recess, Condor.


IOW, grow up.



But, fwiw, the last time I was at a firing range, I outshot the engineer I was with (using .22, .38, and 9mm) and in China last month, I scored the 2nd highest score of the day at an archery club in Shanghai.

I'm just curious, were you there meeting your "handlers"?

The John Kerry school of international diplomacy!

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

take a nice, hot crap on an uncle sam poster and wipe my ass with the american flag.

then, i'd head off to canada.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: fornax

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Not on US soil perhaps, but you have very little understanding about Saddam's actual role in the terrorist underworld... Most of which is still classified, but someday you will understand.

If you'd like, I could link you to some books that you probably wont find on moveon.org... books by insiders, agents, etc, that will paint the real picture for you in terms of Saddam's direct role in that underworld... send me a PM. all i ask is your willingness to be openminded for once as you read the other side of the issue from those who have been there.

So a lowly soldier like you knows all the secret stuff that Saddam did? It's classified but you know it? But Colin Powell and the administartion didn't and had to resort to humiliating themselves in front of the world? You remind me of Kevin Cline in "A Fish Called Wanda" who was telling everyone "I'm a CIA agent".

I think I'm starting to agree that you're a 14-years old playing BF2 and transplanting fantasy into reality.

B-52's on nuc runs had lead shields that dropped in the target run to protect them from outside radiation during the blast. I see you have managed to procure a set of those for your glasses. Yours are special, they prevent the entry of that harmful reality stuff.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

/discuss

I would cease paying any taxes, begin the campaign of civil disobedience while seeking removal of all associated politicians, stock up on supplies in case of violence and various other opposition actions.

I can't even be drafted, nor can my child (being a female), but I'd gladly give my life if necessary to oppose a draft.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: palehorse74

What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

/discuss

I would cease paying any taxes, begin the campaign of civil disobedience while seeking removal of all associated politicians, stock up on supplies in case of violence and various other opposition actions.

I can't even be drafted, nor can my child (being a female), but I'd gladly give my life if necessary to oppose a draft.

I would discuss the logic and benefits of military training for the citizen, but it would be lost on you.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Condor

The Bush administration only understand strength and fear. Logic and reason has failed for 1400 years. Time to give up thinking of them like other people you know.

fixed.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Now, get back on topic, what would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

You say you want a draft? I'll say you are not taking it far enough - we would need a full-out war footing. You DO know we are not even close to being on a war footing, right? That the whole reason that we haven't sufficient armoured vehicles is because only ONE company is allowed to make up-armoured Humvees? That kind of ****** isn't allowed in a real country at war - the Defense Department appropriates the patent, they hand it to GM or Ford, and say "go crank out 200,000 of these NOW!". But we are playing at war, we don't want any of the Defense contractors to not get rich, we don't want to inconvenience the public who may not be able to get their new SUV on time because the production line was converted to armoured Humvee production. But if you want a draft, then we need enough weapons and logistics to support it - no pansy assing around with Defense contractors, no deferrments for sons of Congressmen, no worrying about the impact on the civilian economy. Because THAT'S what it would take to support that many troops.

Now, I'm thinking it's too bad you don't have the background to understand the context of what you are thus saying. You haven't studied the past, you have learned only a smidgeon of military history, and have absolutely NO training in psychology. And absolutely NO education in world politics and economics.

IRAQ is not the FSCKING long-term problem of the US. Al-Queda isn't even the worst problem facing the US.

The rise of China and Asia is. They will be kicking our asses economically in the next two decades. They will be the reason why their will be no money for you to retire on, reduced schooling for your children, and decline of standard of living. And nearly every single DIME we are spending in Iraq is being funded by going further and further into debt with them.

But WHO is going to pay for it? WHO is going to really put this country on a war footing? The costs you are talking about put what we currently spend to shame. And that is just more debt to the Chinese, and a much worse economic position than we can recover from.

For what? To rebuild a shithole country? That doesn't even produce THAT much oil anymore? That had almost NOTHING to do with Osama and the 9/11 attacks? That had NO WMDs? That has almost NONE of the pre-requisites that usually preceed a sucessful democracy? That is STILL split across tribal and religious lines so deeply that there is an almost certain chance that it will fracture as soon as we leave?

So we are doing a lot of good in Iraq? Bully, because that $5 BILLION per month could have done a lot of good lots of places, like here in the good 'ol USofA. Do you REALLY think that the people of Iraq will ever pay us back this expense in money and lives out of the goodness of their hearts? ROTFLMFAO...no, their political class will divide up the oil revenues between them as soon as we leave, pay some portion of it back to the oil elite in the US (inluding the Bush family), and get on with their squabbling...and laughing at the US taxpayer that put them in those positions to get rich.

You ARE aware the the approved Iraqi Constitution allows ANY set of provinces to split off from Iraq, and take control of the oil profits, if they can manage up a majority of political power by one party? You ARE aware that this is already being discussed by the head Iraqi politicians, and talking of the oil rich north going to the Kurds, and the oil riches of the south going to the Sunnis? And the US can't prevent this, because it is LEGAL in the Constitution that WE helped them devise and pass. Increasingly, it looks like we haven't given Iraq a democracy, except as a transition to tribal states, each controlling their own oil wells.

And to enable this, you would triple the number of US troops, and greatly increase our debt to those that truely DO threaten us in the bigger picture? How do you define winning then?

*Applause*

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Now, get back on topic, what would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

You say you want a draft? I'll say you are not taking it far enough - we would need a full-out war footing. You DO know we are not even close to being on a war footing, right? That the whole reason that we haven't sufficient armoured vehicles is because only ONE company is allowed to make up-armoured Humvees? That kind of ****** isn't allowed in a real country at war - the Defense Department appropriates the patent, they hand it to GM or Ford, and say "go crank out 200,000 of these NOW!". But we are playing at war, we don't want any of the Defense contractors to not get rich, we don't want to inconvenience the public who may not be able to get their new SUV on time because the production line was converted to armoured Humvee production. But if you want a draft, then we need enough weapons and logistics to support it - no pansy assing around with Defense contractors, no deferrments for sons of Congressmen, no worrying about the impact on the civilian economy. Because THAT'S what it would take to support that many troops.

Now, I'm thinking it's too bad you don't have the background to understand the context of what you are thus saying. You haven't studied the past, you have learned only a smidgeon of military history, and have absolutely NO training in psychology. And absolutely NO education in world politics and economics.

IRAQ is not the FSCKING long-term problem of the US. Al-Queda isn't even the worst problem facing the US.

The rise of China and Asia is. They will be kicking our asses economically in the next two decades. They will be the reason why their will be no money for you to retire on, reduced schooling for your children, and decline of standard of living. And nearly every single DIME we are spending in Iraq is being funded by going further and further into debt with them.

But WHO is going to pay for it? WHO is going to really put this country on a war footing? The costs you are talking about put what we currently spend to shame. And that is just more debt to the Chinese, and a much worse economic position than we can recover from.

For what? To rebuild a shithole country? That doesn't even produce THAT much oil anymore? That had almost NOTHING to do with Osama and the 9/11 attacks? That had NO WMDs? That has almost NONE of the pre-requisites that usually preceed a sucessful democracy? That is STILL split across tribal and religious lines so deeply that there is an almost certain chance that it will fracture as soon as we leave?

So we are doing a lot of good in Iraq? Bully, because that $5 BILLION per month could have done a lot of good lots of places, like here in the good 'ol USofA. Do you REALLY think that the people of Iraq will ever pay us back this expense in money and lives out of the goodness of their hearts? ROTFLMFAO...no, their political class will divide up the oil revenues between them as soon as we leave, pay some portion of it back to the oil elite in the US (inluding the Bush family), and get on with their squabbling...and laughing at the US taxpayer that put them in those positions to get rich.

You ARE aware the the approved Iraqi Constitution allows ANY set of provinces to split off from Iraq, and take control of the oil profits, if they can manage up a majority of political power by one party? You ARE aware that this is already being discussed by the head Iraqi politicians, and talking of the oil rich north going to the Kurds, and the oil riches of the south going to the Sunnis? And the US can't prevent this, because it is LEGAL in the Constitution that WE helped them devise and pass. Increasingly, it looks like we haven't given Iraq a democracy, except as a transition to tribal states, each controlling their own oil wells.

And to enable this, you would triple the number of US troops, and greatly increase our debt to those that truely DO threaten us in the bigger picture? How do you define winning then?

*Applause*

totally.

i've been saying that bit about the prereqs for a working democracy bit for ages.

industrial revolution/economic boom = THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE A WORKING, LONG-TERM DEMOCRACY!

this iraq shyt is ridiculous.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: palehorse74

What would you think, say, or do IF they reinstituted the draft tomorrow?

/discuss

I would cease paying any taxes, begin the campaign of civil disobedience while seeking removal of all associated politicians, stock up on supplies in case of violence and various other opposition actions.

I can't even be drafted, nor can my child (being a female), but I'd gladly give my life if necessary to oppose a draft.

I would discuss the logic and benefits of military training for the citizen, but it would be lost on you.

Not lost on me, but your argument would be lost against me. I already served my time, during war btw. I simply have more knowledge of the subject than you, and a more reasonable argument.

No offense.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I would deny the US government my tax money by heading up to Canada. If the US wants to institute a draft, fine, but they'll be doing it without my tax dollars. I'm fine with turning my back on a nation that denies me basic rights.


Great post FutureShock.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: Lanyap

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'm all for the draft, but I don't think you have been there. I've seen your posting in the IT securtiy forums going back to 2001, so how it is you are doing this and fighting in Iraq? You were opetruzel@cox.rr.com right? I'm guessing you have military duty from the mid nineties and are now claiming active duty, but you are really a compter geek, IT during the day, BF2 at night.

LOL, yes, I was/am/always will be, a computer geek (and proud of it too!). The difference is that my military experience has all been infantry until just recently when I reclassed 97E (Humint collector). I did so after my return from the ME last year. My civilian career has also shifted toward a similar line of work... one less "computer-oriented" than prior to my trip.

but thanks for noticing! lol...

Why do you people insist upon questioning my integrity and character every other post simply because I disagree with you?! Where the hell did you guys learn how to debate? I have no reason to lie to you about my personal history or experiences, so why are every one of you questioning them?

it's just...odd.

Someone disagrees with you guys and you get all childish and weird... i bet if I came in here screaming about how much Dubya is ruining the world, then you wouldnt think twice if I told you that I invented fun and walked on the moon!

clowns...

Welcome to AT P&N. The anti-conservative, anti-bush, anti-religion, anti-republican and anti-military members have taken over. Anyone coming into P&N these days on the other side of them gets tarred and feathered as you can see. And yes, they will question your integrity and character constantly. They will bait you and try to get you mad so you hurl a personal insult at them. Then you get banned. Their side never gives up. There is an effort underway to rename P&N to BIOB&RM (Blame It On Bush and Republicans Movement) or BM for short .

On Topic, I don't think we need a draft right now, especially not for the reason you want it. The draft would not be a good way to show people whatever good might be coming out of the Iraq situation. It would take more positive reporting to counteract the negative reporting.

Blame to those deserving.